Re: some things I would like to add to my post
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Laurent Savaete
Jun 10, 2012, 6:05:10 PM6/10/12
to Streit Eric, Ian Sullivan, wiki...@googlegroups.com
2012/6/7 Streit Eric <er...@yojik.eu>:
> Hi again:
>
> here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
>
> 1) first part: the lessons:
>
I like the idea of having explanations inlined in the lesson. I'd
argue that, unlike what you said in your other email, some people do
learn a language better without grammar (me, for instance :)
but it's great to have grammatical explanation available if you want them.
> 2) second part: flashcard type programs
>
> This is what could be found on wikiotics and many other websites.
> But, there is the need of:
>
> Oral exercises, written, listening , multiple choices etc ... with the
> grammar and vocabularu allready learned. First, only the new vocabulary,
> and next, with the already known vocabulary.
>
> 3) the export of the lesson:
>
> pure audio export (to learn in a car.
> archives download (to work offline with other programs)
>
> 4) podcasts:
>
> Postcasts could be usefull, bit please, not podcasts like many of them:
> 90% of the podcast are in English , 5% are laughing and only 5% are in
> the target language. If I spent 15 mn with a podcast, I want 15 mn of
> target language learning. What woiuld be perfect is after some level,
> podcasts only in the target language (with some explanations on a pdf in
> the native language).
oh yes! totally agree with that. I've seen too many podcasts like you
describe. Best way to make sure I never come back to the site. An
example of podcasts I quite like are pimsleur podcasts (although I
have a few complaints about them too).
> 5) video:
>
> could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
> talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
>
> Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
> What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
> phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
> know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
>
>
> Hope this help,
>
> Eric
> Hi again:
>
> here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
>
> 1) first part: the lessons:
>
I like the idea of having explanations inlined in the lesson. I'd
argue that, unlike what you said in your other email, some people do
learn a language better without grammar (me, for instance :)
but it's great to have grammatical explanation available if you want them.
> 2) second part: flashcard type programs
>
> This is what could be found on wikiotics and many other websites.
> But, there is the need of:
>
> Oral exercises, written, listening , multiple choices etc ... with the
> grammar and vocabularu allready learned. First, only the new vocabulary,
> and next, with the already known vocabulary.
>
> 3) the export of the lesson:
>
> pure audio export (to learn in a car.
> archives download (to work offline with other programs)
>
> 4) podcasts:
>
> Postcasts could be usefull, bit please, not podcasts like many of them:
> 90% of the podcast are in English , 5% are laughing and only 5% are in
> the target language. If I spent 15 mn with a podcast, I want 15 mn of
> target language learning. What woiuld be perfect is after some level,
> podcasts only in the target language (with some explanations on a pdf in
> the native language).
oh yes! totally agree with that. I've seen too many podcasts like you
describe. Best way to make sure I never come back to the site. An
example of podcasts I quite like are pimsleur podcasts (although I
have a few complaints about them too).
> 5) video:
>
> could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
> talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
>
> Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
> What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
> phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
> know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
>
>
> Hope this help,
>
> Eric
Streit Eric
Jun 11, 2012, 2:41:46 AM6/11/12
to Laurent Savaete, wiki...@googlegroups.com, Ian Sullivan
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Hi,
Le 11/06/2012 00:05, Laurent Savaete a écrit :
> 2012/6/7 Streit Eric <er...@yojik.eu>:
>
>> Hi again:
>>
>> here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
>>
>> 1) first part: the lessons:
>>
>
> I like the idea of having explanations inlined in the lesson. I'd
> argue that, unlike what you said in your other email, some people do
> learn a language better without grammar (me, for instance :)
> but it's great to have grammatical explanation available if you want them.
>
I never said to "force" people to use grammar, but for languages with
"déclinaisons" like German, Latin, Greek, Russian" they have to be
available on the site (appropriate for each lesson, and maybe, a sort of
grammar book in pdf form). Grammr is also useful if you want to write
without too many mistakes. But, yes, the grammar could be make
disapeared for people who don't want it. (button, option ...)
>> 2) second part: flashcard type programs
>>
>> This is what could be found on wikiotics and many other websites.
>> But, there is the need of:
>>
>> Oral exercises, written, listening , multiple choices etc ... with the
>> grammar and vocabularu allready learned. First, only the new vocabulary,
>> and next, with the already known vocabulary.
>>
>> 3) the export of the lesson:
>>
>> pure audio export (to learn in a car.
>> archives download (to work offline with other programs)
>>
>> 4) podcasts:
>>
>> Postcasts could be usefull, bit please, not podcasts like many of them:
>> 90% of the podcast are in English , 5% are laughing and only 5% are in
>> the target language. If I spent 15 mn with a podcast, I want 15 mn of
>> target language learning. What woiuld be perfect is after some level,
>> podcasts only in the target language (with some explanations on a pdf in
>> the native language).
>
> oh yes! totally agree with that. I've seen too many podcasts like you
> describe. Best way to make sure I never come back to the site. An
> example of podcasts I quite like are pimsleur podcasts (although I
> have a few complaints about them too).
>
Here is an example of real effective podcast: http://russianpodcast.eu/
although it's not for beginner.
>> 5) video:
>>
>> could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
>> talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
>>
>> Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
>> What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
>> phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
>> know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
>>
>>
>> Hope this help,
>>
>> Eric
Problem with the list: I sent to you 2 mails and a copy to the mailing
lit: only the first one arrived (I tried after that to send again (3
times) the "faulty" message and nothing ...
Something's wrong there ..
I wanted to add that the success of wikiotics will be, in my opinion, to
make something different from all the other sites like busuu, livemocha:
they all lack of culture, grammatical, contexte (and no, a photo is not
a contexte .., could be only a partial contexte). I played with
Livemocha and RosettaStone enough to see that it works only with the
very simple cases (image->word). When it comes to phrases, it's only a
guess ... and it's time consuming to try to guess what the author had in
mind when he associated this image and the corresponding text.
best regards,
Eric
ps: I sent a copy to the mailing list ... will see if it works (maybe
you could try to send my second mail on the list? To see for other people.
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Hi,
Le 11/06/2012 00:05, Laurent Savaete a écrit :
> 2012/6/7 Streit Eric <er...@yojik.eu>:
>
>> Hi again:
>>
>> here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
>>
>> 1) first part: the lessons:
>>
>
> I like the idea of having explanations inlined in the lesson. I'd
> argue that, unlike what you said in your other email, some people do
> learn a language better without grammar (me, for instance :)
> but it's great to have grammatical explanation available if you want them.
>
"déclinaisons" like German, Latin, Greek, Russian" they have to be
available on the site (appropriate for each lesson, and maybe, a sort of
grammar book in pdf form). Grammr is also useful if you want to write
without too many mistakes. But, yes, the grammar could be make
disapeared for people who don't want it. (button, option ...)
>> 2) second part: flashcard type programs
>>
>> This is what could be found on wikiotics and many other websites.
>> But, there is the need of:
>>
>> Oral exercises, written, listening , multiple choices etc ... with the
>> grammar and vocabularu allready learned. First, only the new vocabulary,
>> and next, with the already known vocabulary.
>>
>> 3) the export of the lesson:
>>
>> pure audio export (to learn in a car.
>> archives download (to work offline with other programs)
>>
>> 4) podcasts:
>>
>> Postcasts could be usefull, bit please, not podcasts like many of them:
>> 90% of the podcast are in English , 5% are laughing and only 5% are in
>> the target language. If I spent 15 mn with a podcast, I want 15 mn of
>> target language learning. What woiuld be perfect is after some level,
>> podcasts only in the target language (with some explanations on a pdf in
>> the native language).
>
> oh yes! totally agree with that. I've seen too many podcasts like you
> describe. Best way to make sure I never come back to the site. An
> example of podcasts I quite like are pimsleur podcasts (although I
> have a few complaints about them too).
>
although it's not for beginner.
>> 5) video:
>>
>> could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
>> talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
>>
>> Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
>> What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
>> phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
>> know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
>>
>>
>> Hope this help,
>>
>> Eric
lit: only the first one arrived (I tried after that to send again (3
times) the "faulty" message and nothing ...
Something's wrong there ..
I wanted to add that the success of wikiotics will be, in my opinion, to
make something different from all the other sites like busuu, livemocha:
they all lack of culture, grammatical, contexte (and no, a photo is not
a contexte .., could be only a partial contexte). I played with
Livemocha and RosettaStone enough to see that it works only with the
very simple cases (image->word). When it comes to phrases, it's only a
guess ... and it's time consuming to try to guess what the author had in
mind when he associated this image and the corresponding text.
best regards,
Eric
ps: I sent a copy to the mailing list ... will see if it works (maybe
you could try to send my second mail on the list? To see for other people.
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Ian Sullivan
Jun 11, 2012, 10:45:54 AM6/11/12
to wiki...@googlegroups.com
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On 06/11/2012 02:41 AM, Streit Eric wrote:
Hash: SHA1
>>> 5) video:
We have also had interest from the sign language community, which needs
video to work at all. That was a couple of years ago before the html5
video element was as advanced as it is today. Maybe it is time to take
another look at this, even if it just means having the individual videos
hosted on youtube and embedded as html5 video elements inside the
lessons on wikiotics.
>>> What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
>>> phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
>>> know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
> Problem with the list: I sent to you 2 mails and a copy to the mailing
> lit: only the first one arrived (I tried after that to send again (3
> times) the "faulty" message and nothing ...
- -Ian
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Streit Eric
Jun 7, 2012, 11:15:17 AM6/7/12
to Ian Sullivan, Laurent Savaete, wiki...@googlegroups.com
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Hi again:
here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
1) first part: the lessons:
I think that lessons are needed with grammatical explanations with
here are some suggestions, how I see a language learning site:
1) first part: the lessons:
culture tips also. I'll give to you an example:
1) Вот Ни́на!
2) Ни́на - о́чень крас́ивая де́вочка.
3) Я люблю́ Ни́ну.
4) Но она́ меня́ не лю́бит.
5) Мне гру́стно.
Translations:
French:
1) Voilà Nina!
2) Nina est une très belle jeune fille.
3) J'aime Nina.
4) Mais elle ne m'aime pas.
5) Je suis triste.
English (I'm not an expert ... so will do what I can ..)
1) Here is Nina!
2) She is a very beautiful young lady.
3) I love Nina.
4) But she doesn't love me.
5) I'm sad.
etc ... (Chinese, Japanese, German ...)
Explanations: (also in different languages)
1) only one important thing: there is no "am" ("to be" verb) in the
present form. In English, you could mimic: I - Peter! instead of I'm Peter.
2) ....
3) Here you see a form of the noun which is different from the first
phrase: it's an accusative form: Ни́на -> Ни́ну
There are six cases etc ....
4)...
5)Here is a passive form: in English, the literate translation would be:
to me sadly. Russian people use mostly the passive form to express
things as they could not do anything against it, like "fatality".
examples:
Мне хо́лодно I'm cold. (correct in English????)
Мне жа́рко I'm hot. (same remark ...)
Нам ну́жно купи'ть компю́тер. We have to buy a computer.
2) second part: flashcard type programs
This is what could be found on wikiotics and many other websites.
But, there is the need of:
Oral exercises, written, listening , multiple choices etc ... with the
grammar and vocabularu allready learned. First, only the new vocabulary,
and next, with the already known vocabulary.
3) the export of the lesson:
pure audio export (to learn in a car.
archives download (to work offline with other programs)
4) podcasts:
Postcasts could be usefull, bit please, not podcasts like many of them:
90% of the podcast are in English , 5% are laughing and only 5% are in
the target language. If I spent 15 mn with a podcast, I want 15 mn of
target language learning. What woiuld be perfect is after some level,
podcasts only in the target language (with some explanations on a pdf in
the native language).
5) video:
could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
could be also useful: why not : cooking in the target language etc ...,
talking about books, films, hobbies etc ...
Final: you can see: I put the stressed mark on the Russian parts.
What I want also to say: it's very important to know how to build
phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
Hope this help,
phrases: if you do'nt, how could you build your own phrases, even if you
know thousands of words and phrases by heart?
Eric
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