Who should be the WE authors (collaborators); the teachers or the students?

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May 22, 2008, 2:48:53 PM5/22/08
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Given the socio-constructivist bent of wikis and WE for learning.
Shouldn't the students be the authors of the WE pages and the teachers
be the mentors / guides / facilitators?

Some readings to consider while you ponder this question...



May 22, 2008, 3:01:36 PM5/22/08
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I believe the "Murder Madness and Mayhem" project is a perfect example
of students as authors and the learning benefits is provides.

I also believe this is why our current set of collaborators (authors /
instructors / teachers / facilitators) should be fully engaged in the
QA project, particularly the featured items;
for this is how we set the exemplar for learning within WE.


Wong Leo

May 22, 2008, 8:55:22 PM5/22/08
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Thank you Peter , I totally agree with the points you are making , the students should also have their own saying and parts to share , actually I found that greatly missing also in Chinese teaching situations :One example would be :

1 After the class ,the students go back to the "old way "of Learning , the retention of Learning in WE or any other type of Wiki learning is not really happening

2 Students are not focusing on the process or reflection of their learning , Does WE provide them the example with it , show them how and we can help them ? or help ourselves ?

3 another very interesting questions is Collaboration is the Key , as Leigh suggested ,how many edit history , it also depends on teacher how to divide the group and some of grouping skills , so maybe WE can creat some page on this too ? for example , If I am colloborating with my roomates , there seems no need to do that for sure ,

4 Wiki is not CMS , could anyone share some insights at Why Wiki is not CMS ?

Peter ,  I can open the pdf and already attching this in this thread , coz maybe not everyone can open it , it has to be in the school intranet coz it is the paied access ,so everyone feel free to download the last link Peter gave to us .

I am sure we need more students partipation in WE


2008/5/23 Peter <praws...@gmail.com>:


Randy Fisher

May 22, 2008, 9:33:59 PM5/22/08
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Hi Peter,

I think the Learner's Voice (similar to the Customer's Voice in an enterprise) should be heard and considered - I think it is essential that the Learner be part of the overall QA process.

- Randy
Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change and Designing Sustainable Ecosystems to Improve Performance- for People, Teams, Communities, and Organizations

+ 1 604.684.2275

Skype: wikirandy


May 23, 2008, 8:53:03 AM5/23/08
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I applaud your words. I see my role as a mentor/guide/facilitator and encourage my students collaborate and develop new products in teams.

Thank you.

Nellie Deutsch
Doctoral Student of Education

Randy Fisher

May 23, 2008, 9:55:52 AM5/23/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com, dmc...@smcvt.edu
Hi Peter et al:

Nellie and I had a webconference last night (well, early morning her time) - I'll post the transcript on the Webconferences page.

We got acquainted, talked about how the Webconferences could roll into a larger online conference in the future, and also about whether she was interested in bringing some of her learners over to WikiEducator - for say a September timeline. The recording is here: Here is the recording for the May 23 session: http://www.wiziq.com/TutorSession/Session_Details.aspx?JuX%2bgH%2b2GbbBu1xVE1uDUZMJeSpSSNuvGAFuEYWe2FYs1ZFoX4PvF%2b4pl4tlssqgBYrxMevBRDI%3d

- Randy


May 23, 2008, 9:57:06 AM5/23/08
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Hi folks,

I think the answer to Peter's question should be 'both'. I see scope
for entry-level students, and also room for more scholarly

My little project brings a class of 30+ students to Wikieducator.
They range from first year third-level students to third year working
in mixed-age teams with three or four members per team. All of their
writing assignments for the course are in Wikieducator.

Reflection: I require an online reflection on their classroom
experience. This combines practical advice like 'don't let the
students have the crayons before needed' and also more thoughtful
reflection. Wayne suggested that the students might also reflect on
the wiki experience and more than half of them did:

Reasons to come back: For WE to convert students to active users, the
material that students contribute must be of long-term value to them.
While we academics consider that the materials in our disciplines will
be of long-term use to students, the reality is that not all material
will resonate with all students. On the one hand I don't require my
Community Ecology students to write content for WE because I recognize
that some of them will be medical professionals, others will be
environmental consultants, and perhaps one or two from a class of 20
will become educators or community ecologists. On the other hand
students in my Biology in Elementary Schools course are preparing to
be primary school teachers. If they work hard to develop a lesson
plan, try it out, reflect on it, and put it in WE, my perhaps naive
hope is that they'll be back to WE to use that information.

I think it is valuable to have students engage in a broader community
and to contribute. I think it benefits the community, but more
importantly I think it benefits the students directly. Anything that
encourages students to more highly value their work than simply a
means of earning a grade is helps move their aspirations to a higher
level. Simply by saying 'this is a useful contribution', and 'others
will gain by your efforts', we are enforcing the idea that a student
is not just a student, but also are a valid contributed to their

Costs: Not all students are A students. Some contributions will be
less than stellar. However, WE is a collaborative medium. None of
should be shy about tweaking a page once the WIP tag has been
removed. My hope is that when teachers use a lesson plan and find a
new angle, they will share that information with the rest of us.

Peter and other contributors, thanks for starting a most interesting



Randy Fisher

May 23, 2008, 1:12:58 PM5/23/08
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Looks like we have a developing cluster here - focused on Learners!

Peter, Leo, Nellie, Declan - blaze the trail!

- Randy


May 23, 2008, 3:07:17 PM5/23/08
to WikiEducator

Next week I meet with one of our local K12 school principals. The idea
I'm pitching is to have the students collaborate with another school
(from another Commonwealth Country) to develop thier particular grades
curriculum all within WE. It's sort of my way of initiating greater
development of K12 content within WE by having the students do it...

I'll start a new discussion thread on this as I get to my next step of
developing a Statement of Work (SOW) for this... This will all be very
Learner focused...

Cheers, P
> Improve Performance- for People, Teams, Communities, and Organizationshttp://www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher
> + 1 604.684.2275
> wikira...@gmail.comwww.hirerandy.com
> Skype: wikirandy- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -


May 26, 2008, 5:40:50 PM5/26/08
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Hi Peter,

Very good. Looking forward to seeing this cluster develop strong


Sandhya Gunness

May 27, 2008, 8:25:11 AM5/27/08
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HI all,
Just to let you know..My students are writing a collaborative article on Wikieducator called Wikiflexions where they are relating their experiences on the Wiki workshop.
Its a great collaborative exercise..and I'm enjoying being the guide by the side here..
Its true that they are a very motivated group.


May 27, 2008, 12:37:11 PM5/27/08
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Hi Sandhya,
I intend to start my grade 12 ESL/EFL class on wikieducator in the next school year. I would appreciate any suggestions you or others may have on best practices.


Randy Fisher

May 28, 2008, 6:49:56 AM5/28/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
One thought that I have, is to make sure that they know two things:

1. How to logically organize their documents (i.e., wikieducator.org/Nellie/StudentName/Newpage1, newpage2, or ikieducator.org/Nellie/Topic/tudentName/Newpage1, newpage2 - you get the point...it has to be easy for them to remember, and follow a convention...Even though the wiki is flat, it will be a bit counterproductive, in that they won't be able to find the pages they are creating....

2. 1. How to make a topic template, so they can keep track of their files - i.e., the main topic templated can be updated with shortcuts to their many pages.

3. As you begin collecting this information, why not create a page in the wiki, and start adding these things...under a well-named topic page, of course!

- Randy

Skype: wikirandy


May 28, 2008, 2:00:52 PM5/28/08
to WikiEducator
Hi Nellie,

Just a follow up to Randy's suggestions, if your students are
following a predetermined format, then a preloaded page works well.
You establish a frame work with headings, and instructions. Your
students can then replace your instructions with their own content.
The advantage is that you can have templates or headers embedded in
the preloaded page. As your course changes, the preloaded
instructions are easily modified. I now give out far fewer paper
handouts because most instructions come in this way.

Leigh Blackhall has one and I learned to use the technique from his




Jun 2, 2008, 2:51:59 PM6/2/08
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I think it depends on the context in which We is being used. Students
as learners should be allowed to work as collaborators to construct
their learning content. Then there will be a dialogue between the
students in a constructivist manner to improve their content material.
Foundation for this type of students' collaborative work can be
initiated by themselves or by their teachers. If teachers have
initiated such a work, then there is a necessity for teachers to be
their mentors/guides or facilitators.


On May 22, 10:48 pm, Peter <prawstho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Given the socio-constructivist bent of wikis and WE for learning.
> Shouldn't the students be the authors of the WE pages and the teachers
> be the mentors / guides / facilitators?
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