International accredited OER based university

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Peter

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Mar 23, 2008, 3:30:27 PM3/23/08
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What would it take to create an international accredited university
that gave graduate level degrees based on the completion / creation of
OER? And if this was possible, would it cost anything?

Leigh Blackall

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Mar 24, 2008, 5:52:25 AM3/24/08
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Internationally recognised competency standards like the ones used in Aust', NZ and South Africa and then Recognition of Prior Learning RPL services.

Otago Polytechnic has RPL services. Any day now we expect a person who has done a course on Wikied that is designed around competency/assessment standards that we recognise (NZQA) we will be able to accredit their learning if they wish. It wouldn't be free however.

Learning is still free, education still costs.
--
--
Leigh Blackall
+64(0)21736539
skype - leigh_blackall
SL - Leroy Goalpost
http://learnonline.wordpress.com

Peter

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Mar 24, 2008, 1:00:00 PM3/24/08
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Leigh and others who may be interested,

Thanks for this reply. So what your saying is that Otago will give me
credit for a WikiEd course that is designed around the NZQA as long as
I give them money. Is it a graduate level course? Is Otago working
toward being able to complete WikiEd courses and get a graduate level
degree? Can I transfer this credit to another institution for my
graduate level degree? It would seem to me that what Otago is doing is
great, and a step in the right direction but it is still essentially
using WikiEd as a LMS (or part of their LMS for I still have to
complete assessment activities) and I still have to pay for the
credential... Please correct me if I have misunderstood... I'd change
your last statement to say "Learning and education is free, assessment
and credential still costs"

Anyhow, I want to dive deeper on this topic. I want to discuss if
people think it is possible to create an international accredited
institution that gave me a graduate level degree based on my
completion / creation of OER (and related published research)? Maybe
the international institution is a social network with a top quality
reputation. i.e. if your level of scholarship is recognized by this
"institution / social network" then it is considered the same as a PhD
from Athabasca University... lets call it Open Access Accreditation...
Isn't this the natural progression from connectionist (see siemens)
approaches?

It would seem that an institution like UNESCO or ICDE is where this
could start and with the writing coming from these institutions
regarding OER they (I believe) should be addressing the issue. I've
been reading papers from these institutions for a while and everything
still assumes the OER are utilized within existing institutions and
existing courses and existing programs and in the end you still have
to pay for assessment and the credential. In particular, the roadmap
from the OLCOS http://www.olcos.org/cms/upload/docs/olcos_roadmap.pdf
seems to be a deep dive into all this, yet they still assume loads of
affiliations and partnerships with existing Universities. Essentially
you still have to pay to get assessed and credentialed even though you
are using OER created by someone only loosely affiliated with the
university granting the credential. Why?

You could assume a PhD is the equivalent of 2-3 years of full-time
work, for easy math lets 5000 hours. Let's say I am prepared to work
16 hrs a week for 46 weeks a year for seven years (5152 hours total).
And during this time I create a solid amount (potentially a complete
Masters degree amount) of OER (with accompanying collaborative
research papers) on WikiEducator and Wikiversity. Shouldn't I be able
to take all this work and be given a PhD? Universities provide
honorary doctorates; why not use this same structure to offer a PhD to
someone who completes what I previously suggested? Or would the
reputation I created on WikiEducator and Wikiversity by
collaboratively creating a PhD effort equivalent in OER be the same as
having a PhD? In fact could this not be the new PhD? And in the end I
would have saved myself the 40k - 100k $ that I paid to an institution
for a credential (not including 5152 hrs of lost salary). And I could
do all this in a truly self directed manner without having to be
"supervised" by a tenured academic. When I know that most of my
supervision is going to come from the social network anyway...

Or maybe what I am asking is; what role does the graduate level
university play in a Connectivist world filled with quality OER, hard
work and an active social network?

Thanks for your time,

Peter

On Mar 24, 2:52 am, "Leigh Blackall" <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Internationally recognised competency standards like the ones used in Aust',
> NZ and South Africa and then Recognition of Prior Learning RPL services.
>
> Otago Polytechnic has RPL services. Any day now we expect a person who has
> done a course on Wikied that is designed around competency/assessment
> standards that we recognise (NZQA) we will be able to accredit their
> learning if they wish. It wouldn't be free however.
>
> Learning is still free, education still costs.
>

simonfj

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Mar 24, 2008, 5:52:35 PM3/24/08
to WikiEducator
Thanks Peter, Leigh,

Essentially
> you still have to pay to get assessed and credentialed even though you
> are using OER created by someone only loosely affiliated with the
> university granting the credential. Why?
>
would the reputation I created on WikiEducator and Wikiversity by
> collaboratively creating a PhD effort equivalent in OER be the same as
> having a PhD?

> Or maybe what I am asking is; what role does the graduate level
> university play in a Connectivist world filled with quality OER, hard
> work and an active social network?

It IS the point isn't it? I'll use Liam, who 'runs' Wikipedia Weekly
as an example here.
No doubt the employers of his new role at the Dictionary of Sydney
were influenced by the proof that he can get stuff done. They just
have to look. Most of DoS board are academics who are old enough to
feel out on a limb, and thankful for the proved expertise.
http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/www/html/51-project-teams.asp

Now i'm not saying this approach is going to replace ALL the old
bricks and mortar credentials. But so far as the new
(Interactive)media industries are concerned (and this IS the growth
area in employment); how much proof do you want that their credentials
are passe/irrelevant? The aim of an .edu is simply to pass on
expertise isn't it? They (simply) can't.

The assumption = " they still assume loads of affiliations and
partnerships with existing Universities"= makes the point. If you
could see the number of Memorandums of Understanding I've seen signed
over the past years and the lack of anything tangible coming from
them... well, "samo, samo".

I'm taking it that terrya is a playmate of yours Peter, so I've said
my piece on his terrific paper.
http://terrya.edublogs.org/2008/03/17/networks-versus-groups-in-higher-education/#comment-1433

But until we see consortia like the Open CourseWare consortia start
focussing on the communications of groups that stand between their
institutional members, I guess we'll just have to put up with the
"Successful disaster", which they've created..
http://ochre.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/pittsburgh-fortune-cookies/#comment-1008

PS Anyone interested in hosting a wikieducator forum over at Wikback?
http://wikback.com/forums/


In fact could this not be the new PhD? And in the end I
> would have saved myself the 40k - 100k $ that I paid to an institution
> for a credential (not including 5152 hrs of lost salary). And I could
> do all this in a truly self directed manner without having to be
> "supervised" by a tenured academic. When I know that most of my
> supervision is going to come from the social network anyway...
>

>

Cormac Lawler

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Mar 24, 2008, 8:22:15 PM3/24/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for this thread Peter. :-) I think that what you envisage is possible - ie creating an international accredited institution that would award academic degrees on the basis of a set of work (OERs, blog posts, papers etc) - let's call it an "e-Portfolio" (in the current UK government lingo). However I would envisage a number of issues:

* Authorship - if you are creating a resource on, for example, a wiki, how is someone evaluating your work to know that this work is your own work? Or how much of it is yours? Digging through a page history can be a lot of work - would we expect the evaluator to do this? And this idea of authoring materials leading to accreditation - does *everyone* developing a certain amount and standard of OER materials automatically get a degree? (What then constitutes "OER" - any article on Wikipedia, etc etc?)

* Academic standards - notoriously varied across national educational systems. It would be a huge challenge to such an institution - though it is already being addressed within the OER movement.

* Evaluation/supervision - someone is going to have to be the person to say: "yes, this person deserves a degree/PhD..". I would say, especially at PhD level, that this person would need to be familiar with your work, and not be simply handed a portfolio after three years - and I would then argue that this would constitute a form of supervision (ongoing critical dialogue) - perhaps in the network-based way you envisaged. There seems to be a significant "other people's time" element to all this. Which brings me to..

* Money - I know you didn't mention this explicitly - but did you envisage all this to be free? Subsidised? Paid for by whom?

I'll just add a slightly different slant on this discussion - education is obsessed with formal accreditation - but perhaps there might be another model - one of recognition. Perhaps after working on a solid body of OERs and published papers etc, you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn sight more eligible to get a job with a certain employer institution that is open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done. I think Teemu Leinonen has written about this before (perhaps on his blog <http://flosse.dicole.org/>, though I'm not sure). Sure, this option is far weaker than the current accreditation model - but it just might become an option in certain contexts.

In any case, I'm only throwing these ideas into the pot - but it's a great discussion to be having!

Cheers,

Cormac

Leigh Blackall

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Mar 24, 2008, 9:42:13 PM3/24/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Peter,

There was a proposal somewhere in Wikied to collect the competency standards that different countries where using and to load them to wikied and work towards an international standard for as many as possible. I'd expect that, with many skills based vocationally orientated stuff, this would be pretty straight forward. These standards could serve as assessment guides for industry and developing education sectors; they could serve as learning objectives for people; and they could serve as online learning development guides.

If Wikied was successful in bring together an international collection of standards like these, they could present them to the likes of UNESCO and say, "will you help us promote these as an international assessment standards". If that was done, then institutions like Otago Polytechnic would have a direct interest in assessing and awarding qualifications to these new International standards. It would be likely that our courses would start using both NZQA and UNESCO QA!

Eventually, UNESCO QA certificates and degrees might become more usable for migrating workers. The worth of UNESCO QA Units would increase to the point where many nations started recognising people with these certificates. UNESCO would have to make sure that the standard of assessment was actually being met, and could even accept individuals as qualified assessors..

It would then be very easy for Institutions and individuals to then develop courses on Wikieducator around these standards, and also to offer assessment and accreditation to people who complete these courses. People would be free to do the courses at their own pace and self directed, gradually building a learning portfolio of assignments and activity evidence (set in the curriculum designs) that would be used for some sort of RPL process. Through an international network of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of such processes and services greatly reduced!

Peter

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Mar 24, 2008, 11:05:00 PM3/24/08
to WikiEducator
Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others...

Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in...

Cormac,

There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution
is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a
single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day
(soon), see these two references;
http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/
http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf

I think we could do with a Wiki based Open Educational Resource
Maturity Model (WOERMM). I start to touch on this in a paper I wrote a
few months back; http://www.rawsthorne.org/docs/PeterRawsthorne.QualityOERbasedWikis.pdf

I'll definitely invest the time and read terry's paper.

Peter
> > from the OLCOShttp://www.olcos.org/cms/upload/docs/olcos_roadmap.pdf

simonfj

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Mar 25, 2008, 8:52:03 PM3/25/08
to WikiEducator
On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter <prawstho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others...
>
> Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in...
>
> Cormac,
>
> There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution
> is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a
> single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day
> (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf

Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation
to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes
down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have
institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no
problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a
clue.

Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis
were trying to "teach" AV production stuff. Many didn't have a
recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors
interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be
encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean
studio.

So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his
studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited
courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were
included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the
accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a
piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a
job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years.

The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive & global
media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups'
Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at
the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to
think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed.

In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global
interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and
appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a
good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience.
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ And then you look at unis' web sites/
brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their
members' communications, the other on the institution's information.
i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) NETWORKS.

As Cormac says, "you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn sight
more eligible to get a job with a certain employer institution that is
open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done". I don't
think it's even a matter of them being open minded. It's more a matter
that in the commercial world, one gets paid for results, and if you
can point to something, like Liam can, who do you think will get the
job?.This is very new ground.

I also think Leigh is quite right. "Through an international network
of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of
such processes and services greatly reduced!" But you have to have the
"international network" first, and all we do have at the moment is a
bunch of National .edu ones. Thankfully Web 2.0 Inc. are able to help
fill the obvious gaps. But you got this wrong. "Learning is still
free, education still costs". Nah, "accreditation still costs". You
know, priests used to sell indulgences. That's why the Reformation
(supposedly) started.

Perhaps, rather than talking about accreditation, we should be talking
about where the new jobs are, what skills are required and who's doing
the employing.

Leigh Blackall

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Mar 26, 2008, 3:44:22 AM3/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :)

Maybe I should clarify what I say about "learning being free, education still costs"

I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved.

But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning...

So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education.

Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan.

David Wiley

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Mar 26, 2008, 11:40:41 AM3/26/08
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Simon and Leigh,

We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in
the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on
establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and
therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely
online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire
curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall
2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that
we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade
curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not
OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high
school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012
we're running all four years of high school.

All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter
document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We
hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the
funding of both learning AND education...

D

Peter

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Mar 26, 2008, 12:39:33 PM3/26/08
to WikiEducator
David,

This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as
an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will
students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be
"open" within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out
the model...

There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion
thread. Are we mis-using the word "Education" within OER. As we seem
to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what
you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment,
accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide.
Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources
(OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article;
http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellboyleedtecarticle.pdf);
Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation
before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of
Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their
domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment
and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we
need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the
institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and
free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be
restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the
institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation?

I look forward to your reply(ies)...

P
> >  On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj <simo...@cols.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter <prawstho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others...
>
> > > > Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in...
>
> > > > Cormac,
>
> > > > There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution
> > > > is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a
> > > > single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day
> > > > (soon), see these two
> > references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.s...
>
> > > Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation
> > > to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes
> > > down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have
> > > institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no
> > > problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a
> > > clue.
>
> > > Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis
> > > were trying to "teach" AV production stuff. Many didn't have a
> > > recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors
> > > interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be
> > > encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean
> > > studio.
>
> > > So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his
> > > studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited
> > > courses.http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were
> > > included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the
> > > accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a
> > > piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a
> > > job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years.
>
> > > The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive & global
> > > media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups'
> > > Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at
> > > the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to
> > > think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed.
>
> > > In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global
> > > interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and
> > > appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a
> > > good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience.
> > >http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/And then you look at unis' web sites/
> >http://learnonline.wordpress.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Patricia Schlicht

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Mar 26, 2008, 4:02:16 PM3/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Dear David,

Wow, this is really impressive!! and will serve as worldwide and leading
example. Great work

Warm regards,
Patricia

David Wiley

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Mar 26, 2008, 4:47:39 PM3/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Peter,

The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school
will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt
pays the bills).

D

Leigh Blackall

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Mar 26, 2008, 7:49:43 PM3/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it.

Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open Learning...

I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least, vastly reduced in cost...

Peter

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Mar 27, 2008, 11:37:30 AM3/27/08
to WikiEducator
David,

Patricia, had it right, this is really impressive!!! It really gets me
thinking and excited about the possibilities for use by WikiEd or
other OER projects. I get particularly excited about its reuse and
what will be learned from that. Is there any further information
(published or otherwise) available about what you are doing? I am
curious about things like; licensing approach (CC GPL ??), who will be
the content authors / editors / creators, what technical platform /
architecture will you be using? Will there be some kind of version
management? And given its structure, how easy would it be to localize
(language, culture, context)? etc...

On Mar 26, 4:49 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African
> Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it.
>
> Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest
> assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open
> Learning...
>
> I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and
> should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you
> initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open
> Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least,
> vastly reduced in cost...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley <david.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Peter,
>
> > The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school
> > will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt
> > pays the bills).
>
> > D
>
> > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter <prawstho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > David,
>
> > > This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as
> > > an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will
> > > students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be
> > > "open" within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out
> > > the model...
>
> > > There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion
> > > thread. Are we mis-using the word "Education" within OER. As we seem
> > > to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what
> > > you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment,
> > > accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide.
> > > Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources
> > > (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article;
>
> >http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo...
> > );
> > > > > >http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/Andthen you look at unis' web
> > > > >http://learnonline.wordpress.com-Hide quoted text -

David Wiley

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Mar 27, 2008, 12:08:24 PM3/27/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I realize my way of thinking about these things is simplistic (hey -
it's all I'm capable of!), but in my mind:

open educational resources + open learning support + open
credentialing = open education

So OER is an important, infrastructure-like piece, but is certainly
not equivalent with open education. We need large numbers of people to
have access to OERs before we can figure out how to answer questions
and provide other support, and we have to do these two things before
we can move on to awarding people degrees.

D

David Wiley

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Mar 27, 2008, 12:09:27 PM3/27/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Peter, we're still working out all these details. As I said in my
previous message, the school won't receive it's final approvals from
the state until May of this year. So while we're working ahead
somewhat, we're still waiting to really turn things on until we know
we have a green light.

D

Leigh Blackall

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Mar 27, 2008, 7:44:28 PM3/27/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
quite right, nothing simplistic about it. realistic

Peter

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Mar 28, 2008, 4:06:17 PM3/28/08
to WikiEducator
David, I completely agree. Resources are the first step (or maybe
second or third) in the journey to comprehensive open education. I
agree that one of the next steps is having support (with some
assessment) and once we have these we can move toward accreditation.

P

On Mar 27, 9:09 am, "David Wiley" <david.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter, we're still working out all these details. As I said in my
> previous message, the school won't receive it's final approvals from
> the state until May of this year. So while we're working ahead
> somewhat, we're still waiting to really turn things on until we know
> we have a green light.
>
> D
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/Andthenyou look at unis' web
>
> > > > sites/
> > > > > > > > brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their
> > > > > > > > members' communications, the other on the institution's
> > > > information.
> > > > > > > > i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs,
>
> ...
>
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Randy Fisher

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Mar 29, 2008, 5:48:34 PM3/29/08
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Hi David,

Great initiative - were you aware that WikiEd received a donation of chemistry labs for Gr. 10 and 11 - we have to get them into wiki format...but we've got 'em (they were generated by much lauded BC Science Teacher, Jim Hebden). Would these be of interest to you?

- Randy
--
________________
Randy Fisher aka "Wikirandy for WikiEducator"
http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Wikirandy

+ 1 604.684.2275
wiki...@gmail.com
www.hirerandy.com

Skype: wikirandy

David Wiley

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Mar 29, 2008, 7:52:45 PM3/29/08
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Randy, I ~didn't~ know this and we would be absolutely giddy to see
them. Many thanks for the heads up...

How do we access them / how can we help?

David

Randy Fisher

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Mar 29, 2008, 10:04:17 PM3/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi David,

Glad to hear that you might be interested in them - I have them on my machine at work - they are in MS Word, I believe.

We'll need to get them into wiki format (whether that's ODF and WikiEducator's format or both, I'm not a techie but maybe both - so it's useable and reusable). Then it will be available to you, and everyone!

A few links:

Also, if you're able to use these, we could also make an announcement to that effect - good publicity for everyone!

- Randy

simonfj

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Apr 2, 2008, 3:41:35 PM4/2/08
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On Mar 26, 6:44 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :)

Which Half?
>
> Maybe I should clarify what I say about "learning being free, education
> still costs"
>
Hey, that's fine Leigh. We know what we're thinking.
The thing I'm monitoring is the growth of the new (interactive) media
industries. If academic institutions didn't have people like yourself
and our playmates on this thread, then they're a bit left out. David's
a pretty good example of what is happening. Taking a global
perspective, you'd look at the inhabitants of the OpenCourseware
Consortia.
http://www.ocwconsortium.org/ocwcforum/viewtopic.php?t=158
(They don't talk much)

All of them beaver away in splendid (National) isolation. producing
"me too" resources, which display a huge range of good and poor.
Meanwhile (their inhabitants) we communicate on little (global)
community hubs like this, preaching to the converted and comparing the
silk purses which have been whipped up on a sow's ear's budget.

Its only when you start to talk about Sustainability and "the next
steps" where the new industries start to get noticed, primarily
because they all seem to be based around (global) Communications. The
emphasis on OER used to make a bit of sense. Now that there's so many
OER, the real challenge seems to be helping people like David get
together with his global peers and including students in the
development of a constantly evolving (global) course. As you would
(probably) say, "we are sharing a learning, not delivering an
education". Regardless of the tool we might use - wiki, moodle, blog,
etc - it's an understanding we are attempting to share.

You might be interested in this conversation which has just started
down at the Open Uni's OpenLearn initiative. They're an OpenCourseWare
member (funded by HP for US$5m.) who are trying to figure out their
next steps.
http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=980

My main interest here is much as yours is. (I've seen you play with
the Skypecast beta). But getting the NREN engineers to configure their
networks around a (global) Community hubs rather than (National)
institutional ones means we're going to have to turn a few heads and
change a few routines. Still, I know you've already changed yours. You
do realize this makes you a multimedia personality don;t you? :) (Can
I have your autograph?)

Leigh Blackall

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Apr 2, 2008, 10:32:25 PM4/2/08
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Holy sh!t SFJ, you are ruthless! Just read through the forum, am liking your angle very much. But its demanding dialogue.. I have 5 minutes spare between now and another meeting, report to write, and marking to do.. (do you hear the little violin just for me?) Can I check the main thrust of your statements?.. it was in that forum, pointing to the numbers that the WMF pull in, and the top 10 Google results.. That's exactly what I'm trying to make fly down here.. we (waste in my opinion) so many millions (collectively) 100's of 1000's institutionally on projects that only do less than 1/1000th of what WMF and other utility scale initiative are doing. And I would have to disagree with Peter Keyse when he says that OpenLearn buz "it won't happen spontaneously".. why not? The biggest things on the Internet seem to have been very spontaneous compared to what we collectively try to engineer in education.. if we engaged with those things we just might find that spontaneity ready and waiting. Is that what you're trying to get them to see?

We could be adding to the likes of Wikipedia, Youtube and Google results..  and extending on them.. instead, some of our lecturers actually physically look the other way when I show them a Wikipedia entry on their topic of expertise.. why is that? These people have PHDs, they should surely be able to put aside academic snobbery and apply critical skills.. (I have to man handle their heads to get them to look) a whole other story to get them to edit. But some do and are! I will jump with joy when the first funding for R&D is pinned to something like us and WMF projects or similar..

Can you call a Skypecast Beta (or Flashmeeting) to further this discussion? I'm at a point where I want to hear it from you some more, reading it is a little cryptic (which I like) but with my time flashing before my eyes, I'm finding it hard to stop and think in this text world we exist on.

mackiwg

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Apr 7, 2008, 4:06:04 PM4/7/08
to WikiEducator
Hi David (& friends)

On Mar 27, 9:08 am, "David Wiley" <david.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> open educational resources + open learning support + open
> credentialing = open education
>

Apology for the late contribution to the discussion -- I've just
returned from my home visit to NZ where I was able to live out my
promise to the family by staying away from my laptop. I made a point
of travelling to places where I wouldn't have connectivity -- so apart
from withdrawal symptoms - was able to live out my commitments :-).

David -- I'm VERY interested in learning more about the Open High
School of Utah initiative -- where do I find out more? This is a model
which could be replicated throughout the Commonwealth and would like
to see how WE could build communities of teachers/educators to support
the success of initiatives like this. BTW -- I really like the
equation: Open educational resources + open learning support + open
credentialing = open education -- somehow I think this equation also
provides valuable insights into economic sustainability of the Open
Education movement.

Cheers
Wayne

David Wiley

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Apr 7, 2008, 5:22:42 PM4/7/08
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Wayne,

There's nothing online yet - official notification from the state
government should come on May 9 2008 (for a fall 2009 start). Once
that happens, there will be a deluge of info. I'm extremely excited,
and have been trying really hard to sit on my hands waiting for the
announcement - I didn't want to get everyone all worked up if they're
going to tell us "no." Every indication is, though, that they're going
to tell us yes. I hope to find a creative way to partner with you on
the project ("creative" since I'm not officially part of the
Commonwealth).

I think the equation is important, too, and I agree it says a lot
about sustainability. Now if I could just understand my own
equation... =)

D

Cormac Lawler

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Apr 8, 2008, 5:29:56 AM4/8/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi David, I'm also very excited about this project, and I hope the state government will see the bid for the revolutionary contribution it makes! I'd also like to do anything I can to coordinate communities of teachers/educators AND learners from the Wikiversity end.

Cheers,

Cormac

mackiwg

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Apr 8, 2008, 2:02:21 PM4/8/08
to WikiEducator
Hi David,

Creative partnerships are certainly possible :-) and I have good news
on this front. UNESCO and COL have revised and updated our collective
work plan. You will see that OERs @ all levels of education &
WikiEducator are clearly specified in the work plan:

http://www.col.org/colweb/site/pid/4658

This partnership will enable WE to work outside the Commonwealth
involving UNESCO member states.

We're hoping to make a more concrete announcement about the practical
components of this collaboration in the near future -- so lets keep in
touch on this one.

Cheers
Wayne


On Apr 7, 2:22 pm, "David Wiley" <david.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> There's nothing online yet - official notification from the state
> government should come on May 9 2008 (for a fall 2009 start). Once
> that happens, there will be a deluge of info. I'm extremely excited,
> and have been trying really hard to sit on my hands waiting for the
> announcement - I didn't want to get everyone all worked up if they're
> going to tell us "no." Every indication is, though, that they're going
> to tell us yes. I hope to find a creative way to partner with you on
> the project ("creative" since I'm not officially part of the
> Commonwealth).
>
> I think the equation is important, too, and I agree it says a lot
> about sustainability. Now if I could just understand my own
> equation... =)
>
> D
>

David Wiley

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Apr 8, 2008, 2:52:49 PM4/8/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Excellent news!

As soon as we have the official word, we can figure out how these
things all fit together...

D

Jibril TOUZI

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Apr 9, 2008, 4:11:19 AM4/9/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
This is a very good news,

The BREDA (the UNESCO Regional Office in Dakar - the largest UNESCO office in Africa) has posted on his website the FLOSS4Edu initiative, see http://www.edusud.org/spip.php?lang=en (english) and http://www.edusud.org (french).

Cheers,

Jibril

2008/4/8, David Wiley <david...@gmail.com>:

mackiwg

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Apr 9, 2008, 2:04:13 PM4/9/08
to WikiEducator
Well done Jibril and the FLOSS4Edu team!

FLOSS4Edu is a great project inspired by Africa for Africa -- I'm very
chuffed to see the project listed on the UNESCO BREDA site.

Cheers
Wayne

On Apr 9, 1:11 am, "Jibril TOUZI" <jibril.to...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a very good news,
>
> The BREDA (the UNESCO Regional Office in Dakar - the largest UNESCO office
> in Africa) has posted on his website the FLOSS4Edu initiative, seehttp://www.edusud.org/spip.php?lang=en(english) andhttp://www.edusud.org(french).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jibril
>
> 2008/4/8, David Wiley <david.wi...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> > Excellent news!
>
> > As soon as we have the official word, we can figure out how these
> > things all fit together...
>
> > D
>

simonfj

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Apr 13, 2008, 5:54:45 PM4/13/08
to WikiEducator
Hi Leigh, Wayne, (Guys)

I'm sorry I hadn't caught you before the Tectonic Shift pow wow. It
looks as interesting as the Australia 2020 summit . You know, get a
bunch of bright minds together in a little room and bash around some
ideas for a day or two. I'm also with you when you say "with my time
flashing before my eyes, I'm finding it hard to stop and think in this
text world we exist on". An occasional verbal get together would be
the way to go, especially if it can be remembered (recorded).

You should know i met Liam's (the publisher of Wikipedia Weekly) new
boss, Stewart Wallace, at the New Idea's conference at the Aussie
National library, last week. He (and so many other old farts including
moi) are coming to terms with having some quiet conversations with the
domain centric, which might get above the radar, in a stream or on a
pod, and help them discover how to collaborate rather than duplicate.

But I just can't go down the Skype route. It's a bit stupid being pure
OS with the web stuff, while using a proprietary network for the
comms, especially when there are plenty of OS comms tools in the
offering, and needing an injection = getting some global communities
involved with their developments.

So excuse my heavy duty lobbying around the Open Uni's Moodle. It
tends to be one of my little hubs for talking with some playmates
about David's experience = replicating learning objects a thousand
times across the hundreds of Open(CourseWare) domains. It's no wonder
things never become sustainable. We have the critical mass, but the
comms are as scattered as the domains.

Can I ask you (and anyone else that's interested) to take a squiz at
my "remote presentation".
http://wikieducator.org/Tectonic_shift_think_tank#Remote_presentations
I really could use some advice, and help getting a proof of concept
together now my patent has gone through the US office. And please
don't think that just because I've said "patent" that I'm trying to be
meglomanic (OK, "Yes" to a degree). I'm just an old media guy whose
eyes are s