Mr Stink (film) Trailer

[Darth Gupta]

ERICH SCHWARTZEL: There are all these stories about people buying tickets to go see the movie "Meet Joe Black" because "Meet Joe Black" had a "Phantom Menace" trailer on it. So they would go and buy a ticket to "Meet Joe Black," go watch the trailer and then leave the theater. And so all these other movies had these, like, box office bumps, just because people wanted to see "The Phantom Menace" trailer.

DETROW: In 1999, local news stations across the country treated the movie release like breaking news. They talked to fans in brown robes and braided hair and big plastic helmets, fans who had camped out for days, sometimes even weeks at movie theaters to see the film on opening day.

TOM SHALES: The new "Star Wars" movie, "Episode I: The Phantom Menace," is a menace. It's not about storytelling, and it's not about people. It's about effects and technology. It's a computer movie through and through, by computers and maybe for computers.

BOB MONDELLO: What could he have been thinking, you say to yourself as he introduces a race of idol-worshipping primitives who speak in Caribbean accents and behave like refugees from "Amos 'n' Andy."

DETROW: For many of those who remember the heady excitement they felt from the original "Star Wars" movie, and the cherished characters developed over the first trilogy, "The Phantom Menace" was, to put it graciously, a disappointment. But with the 25th anniversary upon us, maybe it's time for another look. To commemorate that anniversary, the film is getting a rerelease in theaters. So I thought it was very important for journalistic purposes, of course, to go see it with the biggest "Star Wars" fan I know, NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith. I met her outside of D.C.'s Alamo Drafthouse theater.

KEITH: I was in college. It was a very big deal. We picked the movie theater because it was the theater in San Francisco that allegedly George Lucas had optimized the speakers in to make his movies most enjoyable. Stood in line outside for a very long time to see this movie, and I did not like it.

DETROW: So now I'm kind of, like, I feel on the fence about it. But at the time, like, I remember walking into the theater. I remember the excitement of seeing the crawl. And I remember leaving feeling like that was a good movie. I remember it was mostly positive. And it was only after the fact, years later, that the haterade kind of came into my head on this.

We settled into our seats, ordered a whole lot of popcorn and re-entered a galaxy far, far away. And as much as we both like "Star Wars," we both tensed up and cringed when Jar Jar came on the screen.

DETROW: After the movie, I piloted my pod racer back to the NPR newsroom and called up Erich Schwartzel to talk more about the legacy of "The Phantom Menace." Schwartzel covers the film industry for The Wall Street Journal, and he's writing a book on the cultural juggernaut of the "Star Wars" franchise called "Empire."

SCHWARTZEL: You know, what I remember and what's so interesting to look at now is I remember just a lot of the noise around it. I remember it was - it's really like looking back, I think, the first example that I have and maybe that the film industry has of, like, the movie almost being beside the point because there was so much anticipation with every trailer drop. I mean, I think one thing that I've been trying to do is put myself in the mindset of a fan, you know, let's say like a 28-year-old fan the year that this is coming out. Like, the anticipation must have been absolutely, almost like crippling to fans who had waited so long for a new "Star Wars" story. Like, I remember - I just read this story about a guy who was trying to get a licensing deal at Lucasfilm, and so he grew out a beard so that he could dress as a Jedi to the pitch meeting.

DETROW: So I think we'll get to the response and the backlash in a moment, but I think that certainly set that up because the expectations were so sky high. And then the movie comes in, and it's just so wildly different than the original "Star Wars" movies. But let's tap into your reporting here. What can you tell us about what George Lucas's goal was when he set out in the mid-'90s to write and direct "The Phantom Menace," and basically do it all himself?

SCHWARTZEL: Well, George had been saying for years, really since the start, that this was going to be a much bigger project than just three movies released in the 1970s and the 1980s, but that there were stories he wanted to tell and ways he wanted to tell them that just were not available to him yet. And so, really, one of the real pivot points in his career and in movie history, really, was whenever he saw "Jurassic Park" for the first time because "Jurassic Park" and the special effects used really convinced him that the technology had caught up to his vision. And so when he started work on the prequels, he knew that the technology was there to really populate the world with the creatures and the planets that he wanted to populate it with.

DETROW: How would you characterize the initial wave of response and how that response changed over time? Because I feel like performatively hating on "The Phantom Menace" is such a big part of "Star Wars" fandom at this point.

SCHWARTZEL: It is. Yeah. It's become a bit of a punchline, although I do think that's changing a little bit and I'll explain why. But I do think that there is this arc that you can see. And there's this real dramatic irony because there's - these are like men and women in their mid-to-late 20s who were "Star Wars" kids who are now excited about the prequel. And you're reading these stories, and there's this, like - now I read them in 2024 with this sort of mounting sense of dread because, like, you know what's going to happen. And you hear these people talk about this being the greatest day of their life. And then the first indication that there were some problems, you know, started whenever the critics started to take a look. And the critics were actually, I think, even tougher, maybe, than some of the fans were, really just saying this is a very weird film. It's very dry. It's very boring. The acting is, like, you know, this side of public access, and really just start - just knocking it down.

And that's when the record scratch starts to happen. And there's all these interviews, like, of man-on-the-street interviews, like, outside the theater. Like, what did you think? And there's all these people just, like, they sound, like, more, like, confused. And, like, they're trying to figure out what's happened to them over the last 2 1/2 hours. And they're trying to sort of talk themselves into liking it or explaining it. And then you start to see just, like, this absolute - this very loud wave of backlash. And now I think we've come to understand that maybe that might have been - I wouldn't say like a vocal minority, but, like, an outsized voice in the reaction.

SCHWARTZEL: Yeah. It was a huge part of the conversation pretty immediately, actually, with a lot of critics saying that Jar Jar's behavior and speech patterns, like, really called to mind, like, a history of, like, Hollywood's dark history with minstrelsy and with these, like, racial stereotypes. And Lucasfilm would always - you know, Lucasfilm doesn't really engage too much with fan reaction traditionally, but that was one thing they would always come out and deny was any kind of, like, racial motivation in the character. But it was one - it was something that really, it seems like, took hold.

DETROW: So here we are in 2024. We are living in this world of endless "Star Wars" content and merchandise and theme parks. And I don't know how many movies and shows have been produced since then. How much credit do you think "The Phantom Menace" deserves for this world of "Star Wars" as this multi-generational juggernaut?

SCHWARTZEL: I've come to really appreciate its role in building "Star Wars" into this kind of multi-generational juggernaut. One thing I would say is, as you said, like, we have this kind of firehose. After fans had to wait 20, 25 years for a new "Star Wars" story, we now have, like, more than you could almost possibly keep up with since Disney bought Lucasfilm 12 years ago. But what's interesting to me is that I think even when Disney bought Lucasfilm in 2012, there still was this kind of stink on the prequels. As I said, it was sort of seen as this punch line or this evidence that maybe George Lucas had lost his touch.

But what you have seen since then, if you look at a lot of the TV shows that Disney is producing, a lot of them lean very heavily on the era of storytelling that the prequels explore and even the characters that they explore, right? They bring back a young Obi-Wan Kenobi. Hayden Christensen, who, you know, maybe was second to Jar Jar in the beating he took from fans over the prequel, he's now popping up in streaming shows time and again. And, in fact, when I was at - I was at a different fan convention last year in London. And the longest line for autographs by far was for Hayden Christensen.

And so I think, like, since then, we do have to acknowledge that, like, that era and those characters is actually what's kind of sustaining "Star Wars" at a time when fans aren't getting new movies or new, like, breakaway storylines. In some ways, I think it did define "Star Wars" fandom because it allowed fans to find one another and, you know, find common cause, whether it was in anticipation or outright criticism of it. I think it's become absolutely this, like, undeniable pivot for the franchise. And even though it wasn't the experience that so many fans wanted it to be, even the fact that it was as controversial as it was, I think, has contributed to "Star Wars" taking on this massive presence in our culture. Because if anything, it's allowed fans to debate something. It's allowed them to rank. It's allowed them to criticize. It's allowed them to engage with "Star Wars" in this almost kind of, like, scriptural way, right? It's like something you can argue with and you can volley back-and-forth over.

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