Just a legal question for debate that may be way out of left field
Fowles Dion
We are all aware of the travel gate Scandal, and that the political party members have been let off with having to pay back the fraudulently gained capital over very extended periods of time interest free.
My question is as a civilian in this country can I not take civil legal action against parliament for not protecting the assets of the country and the citizens in terms of the constitution, and how about a civil action against the guilty themselves to pay back to civil society the interest on the “Fraudulently” obtained funds, while they were in public office?
This then being potentially possible, how about civil law suits against all white collar criminals as a collective of citizens to recoup lost revenues from corporate companies etc.
This may then have the impact of stopping white collar crime in corporate society and government, in fact if I was really to say what I wanted was that should a person in a public position, whether elected or appointed is caught in the act of fraud, that the person is charged under the treason act as their actions are treasonable, and then also how about making criminals liable to compensate the victims of their crimes, this might make some of them think twice before performing a crime?
Dion
Fowles
Information Security and Compliance Officer
Alexander Forbes Group IT
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Johann
Maybe a good discussion for the Legal SIG to have & feedback in the near future?
Craig
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Arrie Nel
Hi
Don’t think I followed the whole story, but what has this got to with the ISG, IT and IT Security.
Or are we now debating the possible corruption in parliament?
Sorry, unless I missed something, and please correct me in that case, if somebody wants a legal opinion, hire a lawyer….not the ISG. Rather have a debate on why we pay so much for bandwidth.
Arrie
kadesemo
of issue that need to be looked at. Some, I would raise in new
threads.
For now, does direct civil case has direct relationship to infosec/
GRC, IMHO, i think so.
Dave moarn about lack of electronic discovery case law, most delegates
concede infosec to protection of info asset and not IT stuff only.
Think of another Enron, BP privacy issue, Japanese JukiNET, then we
might be getting close to 'functional" ECT, RICA, Pricavy and data
protection.
Probably, one DIRECT civil case against an accounting officer (for
public sector Director upward (to DG)), might be the trigger
especially relating to Privacy or lack of appropriate data protection
that might have lead to fraud.
Should the travelgate scandal twist around and the MPs are set free on
basis of the flight/logistic system as a process not having
appropriate control(s), then we would have seen the essence of
appropriate control.
Invariably, there is an no intent and not enough motive, but there is
an opportunity occasion by logistic procedure/process!!!
So Ariel, we are not leaving InfoSec to debate corruption in Govt. Far
from it. Rather we are looking at how InfoSec we enable our society
and we would not have to waste resource in bogus civil cases recouping
funds slash away.
my R0.02c
A. Kayode
On May 26, 9:20 am, "Arrie Nel" <arrie...@mweb.co.za> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Don't think I followed the whole story, but what has this got to with the
> ISG, IT and IT Security.
>
> Or are we now debating the possible corruption in parliament?
>
> Sorry, unless I missed something, and please correct me in that case, if
> somebody wants a legal opinion, hire a lawyer..not the ISG. Rather have a
> debate on why we pay so much for bandwidth.
>
> Arrie
>
> _____
>
> From: Whiteha...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:Whiteha...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Information Security
> Group of Africa
> Sent: 25 May 2007 09:15 PM
> To: Whiteha...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: 'Johann Hershensohn'
> Subject: [WhitehatAfrica] Re: Just a legal question for debate that may be
> wayout of left field
>
> _____
>
> This e-mail is subject to a disclaimer, available by clicking here
> <http://mail2.mimecast.co.za/mimecast/click?code=984400a0606ec6b4527d1...
> 87ed4>
>
> _____
> Email <mailto:Fowl...@aforbes.co.za> Fowl...@aforbes.co.za
> Web <http://www.alexanderforbes.co.za/>http://www.alexanderforbes.co.za
> 90 Rivonia Street, 4th Floor
> PO Box 651938, Benmore, 2010
>
> Please note: This email and its content are subject to the disclaimer as
> displayed at the following linkhttp://www.alexanderforbes.co.za/LegalNotices/EmailLegalNotice.htm
>
> Should you not have Web access, send an email to legalnot...@aforbes.co.za
> and a copy will be sent to you.
>
> Information Security Group of Africa
>
> Name:
>
> Craig Rosewarne
>
> Email:
>
Ian Melamed
Hendrik Visage
This may then have the impact of stopping white collar crime in corporate society and government, in fact if I was really to say what I wanted was that should a person in a public position, whether elected or appointed is caught in the act of fraud, that the person is charged under the treason act as their actions are treasonable, and then also how about making criminals liable to compensate the victims of their crimes, this might make some of them think twice before performing a crime?
Okay, I wouldn't say this topic belongs here, but what you are alluding to, is an Old Testament Biblical principal, so nothing really new, just got conveniently "forgotten"
--
Hendrik Visage
Fowles Dion
Hi Ian,
I think in terms of claims, the money would have to go to a compensation fund for victims of crime, or to support the aids affected, or even to build houses, or anything that will benefit the people of this land. (List of potential benefits to the people of this land is innumerable as well as less crime in the future is a benefit.)
My point of all of this is to create a thought process to eliminate the desire to commit crime in the future by creating a financial deterrent as I have not seen the current laws and controls work, but maybe If we can debate some things that will actually add value to this country, we can improve this land for the future, because we live in a beautiful country, but it is being attacked by violent crime, white collar crime and cybercrime, but if we can come up with some solution to deter crime by having more than just criminal prosecution, but having civil consequences.
I want to make criminals think twice before committing a crime, and I see that as I am a Security and compliance officer who has taken an Oath to uphold the law and be ethical in all my actions I clearly do see that this topic is directly related to anyone in this field of work or organization, in fact anyone in this country who loves this land and its people and wants to make it better for having lived in it.
Regards Dion
Frans Sauermann
laundering activities</plug>; but as for the legal side, well...
You better have a lot of personal funds to take government officials
to court outside of letting the NPA, AG, News24, SAPS etc. know of
currupt activities.
I'm pretty sure though that you can take anybody to court over
anything, just as long as you can pay the bill.
As far as corruption goes, I think it is a secondary issue. Take as an
anecdote the story about the eNatis failure: The Auditor General
report said it would fail, but they went ahead anyways. The issue is
the efficiency of controls (NPA, AG, SAPS etc.) and compliance (PFMA)
rather than corruption.
...Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ...
