shaolin and white crane
None
Is there any link between the crane system you do and any of the
southern shaolin temples?
I know some crane forms such as the 'small crane fist' and the 'snake
and crane combined fist' and they are nothing at all like the videos on
your site. They tend to have larger movements and higher kicks,
including the tornado kick. Have you heard of this one?
How old, approximately, is your style? Do you know its founder?
Neil in England
Helen Shen
that his great grandfather spend huge amount and learned the white
crane from Shaolin; however, that's not the impression I have now from
my sifu or my sidi Taylor. Either I have heard wrong before or it
couldn't be confirmed. As far as I know that my sifu Dong MuYao has
learned the White Crane in a hand-down family tradition that began with
his great grandfather as described a bit in
http://www.taomartialarts.com/crn/crn_fujian.html; His grandfather, his
father, and 4 other uncles' families, total 77 people, all lived
together in their own village when my sifu was young; they farmed, did
their own gongfu along with their own medicine and 鐵打損傷, "bones
and joints fitting and external and internal wounds healing."
As in our style, some movements represent female's characteristics, as
we go down either to strike or evade the strike, like kneeing down (at
the beginning of my 6th form, playing crane, with both legs using
inside legs for going down; or near end of my 4th form, preying crane,
one leg going down using inside leg and another leg in the relative
triangle position for easy getting up and down and positioning the body
for strike as getting up.) And, like feet-swiping movements in our
style are very difficult for female to perform, due to the naturally
physical reasons. So, what am I saying? There are many questions.
Some basic movements in our fujian white crane naturally easy for
female to perform (but difficult for males to do it unless they started
young) and some movements (not necessarily basic but enhancement?) are
totally difficult for female to do it. However, as we have been told
that most of teaching of fujian white crane was originated from the
lady named Fang QiNiang 方七娘; which is very likely, due to some
fundamental elements in our form.
Per my Sidi Taylor and his research, he thinks that Yong Chwun's
(Martin Watts’ sifu) white crane may be one of the older versions of
white crane, which is a possibility by looking at Yong Chwun’s
website and video clips. Our style of white crane may have evolved much
as white crane first formed, just by observing some movements are
predominated and naturally for male to perform but not for female. I am
not saying that older or newer is better, it all depends on individual
to maximize one's own system and potential, we just try to analyze it a
bit. And, for our white crane system and practices, including the
weapons, are based on Wu-Xing Hands and footwork escribed on my
website, and are also based on and initialized with breathing/Qi and
吞吐浮沈 (Float, sink, inhale, and exhale) principles.
As for Shaolin, I haven't seen much 'doucmentation' form Shaolin
itself, all we have just something heard from somewhere and some gongfu
passed down as time/dynasty/religion evolved, temple burned, etc. The
impression I had (don't know how accurate my impression is) is that
those many small temple-like towers in Shaolin were used to store some
Buddhist scriptures or gongfu books/collections. I am not sure when
people talk about tiger/crane form of Shaolin, how was that tiger/crane
form started and by which monk or collaborative efforts? Shaolin was
bunch monks, and as a wild guess IF there was ever Fang QiNiang's white
crane collection/practice happened in Shaolin, what would it mean?
And, for the written information, as we know that the paper would have
difficulty to last for hundreds years, so as it handed down, it would
have to be hand-copy many times around. The information may be lost,
added, enhanced, or detoured. Sometimes, someone would make notes on
the side of the older copy, when the next person copied it, he/she
might include the notes as part of the copy. So as we read the old
text, we would look for the consistency and completeness of the writing
besides the meaning of the content. And, there were usually very
little writing on gongfu related articles in the old days. For the most
of gongfu practitioners, usually they might have difficulty to
verbalize things or they couldn’t read/write even they could have
performed very well.
As reading the tibetan white crane from Dave Lynn, they have a lot of
long circular upper movements, and long/high kicks. According to the
info, tibetan white crane was created by observing the fight of tiger
and crane. And, my husband and I wondered if there were even tigers and
cranes in Tibet? Cranes don't seem to migrate to Tibet, and Tibet
doesn't have tiger but leopard?? Maybe I am not right about this
geography thingy or possibly the founder of tibetan white crane created
his forms elsewhere before he settled at Tibet?? Or, I am just guessing
sensibly/insensibly at this moment?
Forms evolved, and, after hundreds of years or 20~30 generations, often
the original form may have been lost, replaced, or enhanced. Also,
totally unrelated forms may be related naturally by the nature of
things itself sometimes, just because we have the same physical body
and functions. For any system, how was the so-called 'system' created
and evolved may not be really traced, what we can do now is just by
observing what is now if the system is worth the trouble to learn –
whether or not the system is complete, consistent, practical,
effective, achievable or sensible? And, as nowadays the global economy,
what's the objective/purpose for the art or what's the meaning of life
as the martial artist?
I will talk with you more on 'Discuss the Way' next time.
:) Helen
googlegroups2sucks
often
the original form may have been lost, replaced, or enhanced. Also,
totally unrelated forms may be related naturally by the nature of
things itself sometimes, just because we have the same physical body
and functions. For any system, how was the so-called 'system' created
and evolved may not be really traced, what we can do now is just by
whether or not the system is complete, consistent, practical,
effective, achievable or sensible? And, as nowadays the global economy,
what's the objective/purpose for the art or what's the meaning of life
as the martial artist? "
iirc, any system can be either consistent or complete but not both, and
that a consistent system is more practical but less effective than a
complete one.
for me, the best art embodies technical perfection combined with the
evocation of whatever emotion i'm ready to feel at that particular
moment.
i would imagine that for a martial artist, the greatest meaning can be
found within the perfect combination of execution and spirit? ymmv.
:-)
jo
might as well post it anyway.
According to oral tradition Fukien White Crane Boxing was created by a
woman called Fang Chi-Niang about 350 years ago. Fang Chi-Niang was the
daughter of a martial arts master named Fang Fei-Tsze and had been
taught martial arts from an early age. Fang Fei-Tsze studied at the
Southern Shaolin Temple on Nine Lotus Mountain in Fukien province.
Legend has it that one day, Fang Chi-Niang was doing the laundry at the
river's edge when she disturbed by an overly inquisitive white crane.
In order to discourage the bird Fang Chi-Niang picked up a bamboo pole
and tried to drive the crane away. However to her surprise her attempts
were unsuccessful as the agile bird instinctively side-stepped her
attacks deflecting them with its wings and counterattacking the staff
with its beak. Fang Chi-Niang was so impressed that her martial arts
skills had being effortlessly neutralised by the white crane, that she
decided to study the birds system of defence. After a considerable
amount of time Fang Chi-Niang incorporated what she had learnt from her
observations of the white cranes movements with her father's art and
so invented the Fukien White Crane Boxing.
Helen Shen
Thanks for sharing you thoughts. Yes, it is difficult to define the
completeness as well as the consistency of the martial arts or any
art. Consistency is relatively easier to see, completeness of an art
becomes a life journey itself. And, I like Ichin's words on the spirit
- "The spirit of the martial arts is to live, and let live; and a
true martial artist lives a life that is mentally peaceful, physically
healthy, and happy." As we feel the perfect combination of execution
and spirit, we are into the realm of 'mind of no-mind', or as the
great swordsman Tesshu put it: 'sword of no-sword'.
Could you share with us a bit about what kinds of style you practice?
How long you have been doing the art? What's your interest? I know
many here, like Neil and others, which may have been with the arts for
20~30 years and are well versed in many different styles.
Happy gongfu-ing,
:) Helen
googlegroups2sucks
How long you have been doing the art? What's your interest?"
i've never done any martial arts and don't know much about it,
truthfully. it just may seem that way. :-) all i know is from the
relatively few martial arts movies i've seen by jackie chan, bruce lee
and the matrix movies. what i did notice fairly early on, is that each
individual seems to have their own distinct style, much like a
handwritten signature or a golf swing or a dance number in a broadway
musical or the way thoughts and sentences are written, and that the
better martial arts movies had moves which reflected the character
they're trying to portray. it reminded me of the dance numbers from
west side story, and i eventually came to view martial arts movies as
asian musicals, because they were far more fluid and artistic, than
anything i've seen in real world fighting. so i guess, my interest is
in patterns, and leveraging what i know into the unknown.
Helen Shen
By practicing gongfu, we understand our body and ourselves. By
understanding ourselves and others, we venture from the unknown to the
known. The ultimate and the thrill lie in such pursue - practicing,
doing, and experiencing.
enjoy...
:) Helen
Helen Shen
I was watching some crane things on Across China series yesterday. It
occurred to me that the story here has a high possibility (Usually I
hesitate to get involved with any gongfu history and I question
whatever gongfu stories told since the most time people cannot prove
one way or the other), especially if the crane was nesting nearby at
time and had either eggs or youngsters around.
My husband and I love wilderness, we moved around the remote
wooded/lake/river area to be with the nature on our younger days and
did a lot of back country touring in Alaska. One time, we were
dive-bombed by two little birds at a remote place, it was confusing at
first, then we realized that they were nesting nearby bushes with
youngsters and they tried to chase us away, so we left the spot.
:) Helen
googlegroups2sucks
the
known."
says the master to the grasshopper. :-)