Gig creation date

[Douglas Lee]

Is the gig creation date stored anywhere that's visible in the gig?  I need to search text conversations for some details and it would really narrow it down if I knew when the gig creation date was.  This would also assist with players that dispute knowing about a gig before taking a higher paying gig after committing to the gig in question.

[Patrick Lamb]

Do you see any downsides to this? Let me know your thoughts/comments. 

www.gigwright.com 

Patrick 

[Ethan Brown]

Hi Patrick--

On Tue, May 12, 2026 at 10:23 PM Patrick Lamb <plprod...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you see any downsides to this? Let me know your thoughts/comments. 

There are a number of alternatives to WheresTheGig out there. Each has its own focus.  My focus is on (1) ease of use, (2) extensive features, (3) efficient workflow.  In software, (1) and (2) can be mutually exclusive.  Extensive features typically means complexity (think MS Word / Powerpoint), however WheresTheGig makes easy things easy and complex things possible. The personnel "Staffing View" and "Automated Venue Notification" are two examples of complex features available to professional organizations, but probably not used by many bands.  The "Confirmation Request" system provides simplified tracking and automatic personnel assignment changes for gig staffing. GigWright provides none of these.

Item (3), efficient workflow,  makes features that GigWright claims, such as two-way calendar sync, unnecessary.  The templating systems for both gigs and finance scenarios provide for gig entry in seconds, and even full month gig entry in seconds.  WheresTheGig is the hub of your band's information and provides interoperation not only with external calendars, but also with band promotion sites like SonicBids, BandsInTown, and GigPress, as well as XML and JSON feeds for interoperation with other software, which is also missing from GigWright.

The "deficiencies" in other systems claimed on the GigWright site don't really seem applicable to WheresTheGig:

1. "Booking management software stopped evolving twenty years ago."  Features in WheresTheGig are added constantly, and are based on user feature requests.  Recent examples are display of gig creation and modification times, and automated venue notification emails.
   
2. "UI built in this decade, vs 2003".   Although WheresTheGig has been in operation since about 2002, the current WheresTheGig UI was built in 2021, and uses a "responsive" framework allowing use on all devices from mobile to high-resolution monitors.
3. "SMS support is either bolted-on or missing entirely." WheresTheGig incorporates SMS into both the Gig Alerts and the Confirmation Request system, and has done so for years.
4. "Gig mileage, etc."  WheresTheGig has had this for literally decades.
5. "$20 subscription fee required after 14 days." GigWrite exists to make money.  WheresTheGig exists to serve our community.  WheresTheGig is free for most features, and has a small subscription for advanced features.  ALL features, including subscription features are available for six months (180 days, vs 14 days) so bands can evaluate whether they need subscription features.  

Addressing these issues:

On Wednesday, April 29, 2026 at 10:38:40 AM UTC-4 radf...@gmail.com wrote:

Is the gig creation date stored anywhere that's visible in the gig?  I need to search text conversations for some details and it would really narrow it down if I knew when the gig creation date was.  This would also assist with players that dispute knowing about a gig before taking a higher paying gig after committing to the gig in question.

Gig creation and last modification are shown on the administration gig details.

In addition, my motivation for creating WheresTheGig is to serve our community.  Most of the functionality is available at no cost.  There is a small subscription fee for advanced features that supports server costs, SMS services fees, etc.

Are there any specific features you feel would be helpful to you that are not currently available in WheresTheGig?

Thanks,

--Ethan

[Ethan Brown]

I consider it both disappointing and unethical that you didn't disclose that GigWrite as your product before soliciting my input on deficiencies of your system.  My purpose remains to serve our community.  Good luck to you on your profit-centric endeavors.

Your apparent issue with WheresTheGig that led you to create GigWright "Built because every existing tool failed at the one thing that matters most: keeping the band in sync when something changes at 3pm on a gig day." is available through the WheresTheGig Gig Alert feature.

On Tue, May 12, 2026 at 10:23 PM Patrick Lamb <plprod...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ethan Brown]

I have had free, enjoyable, and constructive conversations with other individuals who have built systems similar to WheresTheGig.  They were up-front about what they were doing.  However you didn't disclose that you were creating a competing system and soliciting my expertise in this context.  In addition, you misrepresent the functionality of WheresTheGig, claiming deficiencies that don't exist. That is unethical and out of line.   If this was inadvertent, you may clearly state this along with an honest apology and we can move forward.

--Ethan

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 8:17 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Larry,

To be clear: my request for website feedback was a completely genuine inquiry. I must apologize, as I was clearly operating under the outdated premise that successful business owners actually welcome questions, open discussion, and constructive feedback. Instead, your groundbreaking strategy of shutting down dialogue to immediately hurl insults in a group chat is truly a masterclass in leadership. It takes a remarkable amount of fortitude to feel this threatened by a simple request. Your response was an absolute triumph of unprofessionalism, and rest assured, I won’t be apologizing for giving you the opportunity to showcase it.

Patrick

Patrick Lamb 

Patrick Lamb Productions 

3610 S. Ocean Blvd

Palm Beach, FL 33480

503-267-4826

www.patricklamb.com

Sent from my iPhone, please forgive any typos! 

Make it a great day. 

On May 13, 2026, at 9:42 AM, Larry Brandt <lkbr...@att.net> wrote:



My sentiments exactly. This is nothing more than a lame attempt to steal users from WTG. What a sleeze. 

I was suspicious from the start when he jumps in on an old thread with his own website. I was going to send a red flare up but Ethan had already responded. 

Go away, Patrick. No room for unethical people in this group. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wheresthegig/CAMpF3t7fyByu8SjBx%2BXc4BrO%2BtGg%2BZyvqMnaSqKEyVbn9CvP5g%40mail.gmail.com.

<patrick2.png>

[Tony Startime McNeal]

Ethan,

I completely agree with your position regarding transparency and professionalism. From my perspective, the way this situation has unfolded has been disappointing and unnecessary.

I will continue supporting and working with Where’s The Gig. I value honesty, open communication, and businesses that genuinely support musicians and the live music community.

Attempts to downplay the platform or discourage others from being part of it only create division where there should be collaboration. The focus should remain on helping artists, venues, and entertainers grow and succeed together.

I appreciate the professionalism you’ve shown throughout this situation and look forward to continuing our relationship with Where’s The Gig moving forward.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wheresthegig/CAMpF3t74iPeAtUUbv7QUdkZgD_%3D4MSjMjKVCYjW2%2BNsoSQS6fg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ethan Brown]

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 8:53 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Ethan,

I’d love to apologize, but unfortunately, I have absolutely nothing to apologize for. It is not incumbent upon me to hand over my life story and a list of everything I own just to ask a simple question on a group chat. 

Goofus:  "Hey everyone! Check out this app I found on the interweb!"

Gallant: "Hey Ethan, I'm writing a similar app and would love to share ideas with you." 

The sheer panic and hatred and name calling from Larry is a glaring weakness, not a strength. At absolutely zero times did I misrepresent WheresTheGig or say there were any deficiencies.

Since we are apparently just making things up now, I would love to see the actual, hard data where I made these statements. From a legal standpoint, your creative storytelling is going to need some citations.

Claim: "Built because every existing tool failed at the one thing that matters most: keeping the band in sync when something changes at 3pm on a gig day." Source: https://gigwright.com/#faq

Facts: WheresTheGig, an "existing tool", Gig Alert provides this exact functionality and has for decades. 

  Here's your citation.

[Ethan Brown]

Thanks Tony.  To be clear, I welcome honest criticism, as it helps me to improve WheresTheGig.  Contributors to this group need to be honest, and most importantly, respectful.  As mentioned in my response to Patrick, I have had very enjoyable conversations with other engineers that were building similar projects.  This is a labor of love for me, and I love the process and creativity that go into writing software, and sharing my ideas with others, especially if it benefits our community.

[Ethan Brown]

Thank you, Patrick.  I appreciate your clarifications.  I am also happy that you are discovering the creative gratification that writing software can bring.  I appreciate your contributions to this group. I value the input that experienced musicians and bandleaders such as yourself provide, as it has led to some of the really cool features that are available in WheresTheGig.

I reviewed the feature set of GigWright and understand the decision to make your calendar interoperation bi-directional.  This choice definitely has merit.  When first implementing calendar interoperation in WheresTheGig, I did something similar, but made the design decision to make things export-only out of concern for data integrity.  For example, since my data model includes a Venue table, taking input from an external calendar could run the risk of inadvertent duplication ("Sam's Bar And Grill", "Sams Bar And Grill", "Sam's Bar", etc.), and years of professional systems development has made me gun-shy of anything that can make the data "unclean".

But I wish you well on your project, and please feel free to get in touch if you want to bounce ideas off of me.

All my best,

--Ethan

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 9:38 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Hi Ethan,

I want to start by expressing my appreciation for your level-headed and respectful discourse. You are a strong leader for your organization, and as a long-time fan of WheresTheGig, I truly respect the platform and the immense effort you pour into it.

To provide a bit of context, I recently picked up programming as a hobby and built a tool strictly for my own use. We aren't running in the same lane, and there is plenty of room in this ecosystem for different workflows.

Regarding the recent friction in the group chat, I want to clarify a few firm boundaries:

• The Right to Ask Questions: When anyone uses a public platform to ask peers for opinions, they are acting as a standard consumer. There is no ethical or legal mandate requiring a user to present a resume or declare their assets before participating. Expecting preemptory introductory statements just to ask a question is an overreach. We fundamentally disagree on the presence of any ethical violations here—there are none.

• False Accusations: I have never directly criticized WheresTheGig. I respect your service too much to do so. If members of your group are going to make potentially defamatory claims stating otherwise, they need to provide the actual receipts.

• Community Conduct: While your community's loyalty is admirable, I highly recommend establishing firm guidelines against name-calling and personal attacks. On my platform, that behavior would result in immediate removal.

Thank you again for keeping this dialogue respectful.

Best,

Patrick

<patrick2.png>

Your apparent issue with WheresTheGig that led you to create GigWright "Built because every existing tool failed at the one thing that matters most: keeping the band in sync when something changes at 3pm on a gig day." is available through the WheresTheGig Gig Alert feature.

On Tue, May 12, 2026 at 10:23 PM Patrick Lamb <plprod...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you see any downsides to this? Let me know your thoughts/comments. 

www.gigwright.com 

Patrick 

On Wednesday, April 29, 2026 at 10:38:40 AM UTC-4 radf...@gmail.com wrote:

Is the gig creation date stored anywhere that's visible in the gig?  I need to search text conversations for some details and it would really narrow it down if I knew when the gig creation date was.  This would also assist with players that dispute knowing about a gig before taking a higher paying gig after committing to the gig in question.

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<patrick2.png>

[Ethan Brown]

Patrick--

Which defamatory attacks are you referring to? 

--Ethan

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 9:58 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Ethan,

Just a quick note for your files, as it is already in ours. We have fully documented your decision to allow defamatory attacks against my business to remain active while instantly revoking my ability to respond. Curating an environment where commercial disparagement is protected, yet harmless questions lead to immediate emotional removal, is a truly interesting administrative choice. I am confident this one-sided moderation policy will look fantastic if ever subjected to formal legal review.

For the record:

1. As previously outlined, there have been zero ethical violations.

2. The unsubstantiated accusations circulating in your group—including the false claim that I criticized WheresTheGig—are completely fabricated. There are none. 

Patrick

-------

Hi Ethan,

I want to start by expressing my appreciation for your level-headed and respectful discourse. You are a strong leader for your organization, and as a long-time fan of WheresTheGig, I truly respect the platform and the immense effort you pour into it.

To provide a bit of context, I recently picked up programming as a hobby and built a tool strictly for my own use. We aren't running in the same lane, and there is plenty of room in this ecosystem for different workflows.

Regarding the recent friction in the group chat, I want to clarify a few firm boundaries:

• The Right to Ask Questions: When anyone uses a public platform to ask peers for opinions, they are acting as a standard consumer. There is no ethical or legal mandate requiring a user to present a resume or declare their assets before participating. Expecting preemptory introductory statements just to ask a question is an overreach. We fundamentally disagree on the presence of any ethical violations here—there are none.

• False Accusations: I have never directly criticized WheresTheGig. I respect your service too much to do so. If members of your group are going to make potentially defamatory claims stating otherwise, they need to provide the actual receipts.

• Community Conduct: While your community's loyalty is admirable, I highly recommend establishing firm guidelines against name-calling and personal attacks. On my platform, that behavior would result in immediate removal.

Thank you again for keeping this dialogue respectful.

Best,

Patrick

On May 13, 2026, at 12:11 PM, Ethan Brown <ethan...@gmail.com> wrote:

<patrick2.png>

Your apparent issue with WheresTheGig that led you to create GigWright "Built because every existing tool failed at the one thing that matters most: keeping the band in sync when something changes at 3pm on a gig day." is available through the WheresTheGig Gig Alert feature.

On Tue, May 12, 2026 at 10:23 PM Patrick Lamb <plprod...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you see any downsides to this? Let me know your thoughts/comments. 

www.gigwright.com 

Patrick 

On Wednesday, April 29, 2026 at 10:38:40 AM UTC-4 radf...@gmail.com wrote:

Is the gig creation date stored anywhere that's visible in the gig?  I need to search text conversations for some details and it would really narrow it down if I knew when the gig creation date was.  This would also assist with players that dispute knowing about a gig before taking a higher paying gig after committing to the gig in question.

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<patrick2.png>

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Patrick Lamb President Patrick Lamb Productions mobile / 503-267-4826 email / pat...@patricklamb.com address / 3610 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach Florida 33480

[Ethan Brown]

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 10:02 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Ethan,

I can already tell you’re a genuinely great guy, and I want to apologize for any negativity that our initial conversation brought up. At my core, I’m just a passionate musician. I don't make any grand claims about the tool I'm building—I originally just created it for my own use.

I really appreciate your kind and level-headed discussion. At the end of the day, I’m just trying to do some good.

Best, Patrick

Thanks Patrick.  Things can escalate quickly online, can't they?  As you are an experienced musician, I think you'll relate to my favorite quote (that as far as I know, I came up with!): "I signed up for band, but always end up in drama."   Perhaps this also extends to Google Groups!

[Ethan Brown]

Oh!  OK.  The claim of WheresTheGig criticism is based on your website content, so it is indirect as you provided a link to the site and asked site members to review it.

As a courtesy, I'd appreciate it if you would correct the content of your site to accurately reflect the capabilities of competing systems.

Thanks,

--Ethan

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 10:05 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

The two listed below 

[Ethan Brown]

My other favorite quote most bandleaders can relate to is:  "Running a band would be much easier if you didn't have to deal with musicians."

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 10:08 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Oh my goodness that's so true!  

Most of us are just doing the best we can. 

[Ethan Brown]

Understood.  Thanks Patrick.  When I do a "clean search" (from an incognito mode browser) it looks like "Gig Pencil" comes up prominently.  Are you familiar with their system?  What do you think of it?

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 10:18 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

To clarify, those comments were not directed at WheresTheGig. I compiled a list of very general observations after looking at several different platforms, including Master Tour, Gig Boss, WheresTheGig, and a few others. Absolutely nothing was meant as a specific criticism of your service; I was just taking note of the broader landscape and the different features offered by various players in the industry.

[Ethan Brown]

Sure. They share a lot of functionality with WheresTheGig.  I think my workflow is more efficient, and I definitely beat them on price! 

On Wed, May 13, 2026 at 10:35 AM Patrick Lamb <pat...@patricklamb.com> wrote:

Holy smokes! Band Pencil has an unbelievable amount of info built into it. That platform is definitely designed for your high-level, Jedi-master band nerd type of leader, lol. I operate a little more on the "country" side of things myself, but I honestly think it’s great. I just finished watching the demo video—thanks so much for turning me on to it!