Love/Hate Rules Relationships

[Kilsern]

What are some WFRP3 rules you love and/or hate? I have two I can think of off the top of my head.

First, combat. At first I saw the combat system as not lethal enough, but now, from a GM view I am liking the fact that while it may be somewhat difficult to kill a PC out right, instead it is easy to drive them insane, disease them, mutate them, fatigue, stress and strain them.

I also think combat could be highly narrative and is intended to be, but often isn't. I think part of the reason is combat in 3 can take a looooonnnnnggg time, so often, unless a critical comes up or a comet or star, it is often glossed over to either hit or miss. Also, the frequency of Chaos Stars seems a bit too frequent in my face to face games. I haven't noticed this in the VTT games I've done. Perhaps it is the use of a dice roller versus physical dice? I don't know; however, the frequency of Chaos Stars has made me look to more creative options for narrating them (a more liberal use of Condition cards and Plot Twist cards from Pathfinder). At the same time, I appreciate the frequency of CS when casting spells. Magic in WH is supprosed to be dicey business (pun shamelessly intended).

Second. Party sheets. I find they are often an ignored mechanic, face to face and VTT. Every once in a great while, someone will remember there are fortune points available on them, but I'm yet to see a group of players make good use of the card.

Conversely, I have seen a GM use it well as a tool. Joe, Aspects here, in our round robin game set up a situation where my zealot was put at odds with the parties rat catcher. Party tension rose, and we suffered for it; however. In that case it wasn't the mechanic of the card that caused party mayhem, rather it was a bit of great role playing at the table.

[Rob Heath]

Interesting points , perhaps i shall share mine

1. combat , since i came from dnd4e combat has been breeze because i have found it takes less then half the time to resolve an encounter which i think allows the players to get back into the story quicker. If the combat was highly narrative then i think some people would not put enough emphasis on the one off critical as it might not feel special but this of course could be handled by the vtt in that it could display a phrase for a normal wound or for your face to face you could make a small stack of cards or roll a dice on a chart. not while writein this i have just thought of a nice mechanism , what if your total wound count was equal to your toughness multiplied by your toughness , then when ever you reached you toughness you had an automatic critical , when you reached the noumber of criticlas equal to your toughness you then died , now that sounds a lot more deadly

2. party sheets , yes i agree with you , i think because no-one owns then they tend to get forgotten in the action especially on vtt games because it is not immediately apparent what is happening , perhaps the party sheet needs to directly influence the characters more by adding in extra dice depending on its status on the track


on another note which i think i will put in down the bottom , i have an idea where your character is actually your kingdom and its stats reflect what is going on in your knigdom so when i get some ideas formulated i will push up a thread to see how it pans out

Rob

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[DevoutBadger]

I agree with Chaos Stars. Purple dice should probably be d12s with still only one side a Star.

Diseases need to be less brutal and probably all need to be taken down a severity level, maybe two. Especially how hard it is to boost the roll and how rare it is as a player ability (Medicine).

I think party sheets are fine myself, you just need to have them displayed well I think. Something FG2 does better than Map Tools I think. Also helps when you have a more proper group too.

[kils...@gmail.com]

If I read your post right, combat is twice as long in 4E? Beejezus, am I glad I never got the itch to play 4E. I agree that not everything should be narrated. Unless it is a critical, comet or chaos star, I am content with hit or miss. Especially since more narration equals more time spent in combat. I'm content with the lethality now. Zero wounds equals unconsciousness and if the number of critical hits exceeds the toughness score, he's dead Jim. Of course keep in mind that when a character goes unconscious, a wound is converted into a critical wound, so if you have one or two wounds left, you have a toughness of three and you have three critical hits, run away, run away.

Party sheets. I am considering dropping their use all together.

Your stars equals kingdom pitch sounds interesting.

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[kils...@gmail.com]

Purple dice being d10 or d12 I agree with. I would like the rules to be more like Star Wars:EotE.

I'm fine with diseases being brutal. They are supposed to be.

You may be right on MT vs FG2, I've played both VTT, but even in my Face to Face group, the card is prominently displayed in the center of the table and still never gets used. I am toying with the idea of replacing Party Sheets and Fate Points and ACE to something similar to Marvel Heroic RPG. In that system, the GM starts with a Doom Pool and players start with Plot Points. Both are dice which may be added to their roles. In MHRPG, if the GM (called the Watcher) rolls a 1, the players have the opportunity to buy that die to add to their Plot Point Pool. The reverse is the same for Watchers. Of course, rolling a 1 means nothing in WFRP terms, but what if the players were allowed to purchase Chaos Stars rolled by the GM and vice versa. Those purchased CS are converted into fortune dice and could be traded up, at let's say the rate of three to one, for a specialty die? The GM gets to do the same. Purchasing, and again just throwing out numbers: convert a Chaos Star to a Fortune Die costs one plot point. Fortune dice may be traded for specialty dice at the higher 3 to 1 rate.

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[Kilsern]

I'm happy to report that in my face to face game last night, the number of Chaos Stars rolled was minimal, I would say we hit the median of what the ratio should be.

Party Sheet. Totally ignored.

However, I noticed one thing more about this game I do not like. The Creature Guide. I've read negative reviews, but last night was the first time I read it with a critical eye for anything other than the fluff. What a disorganized hunk of crap! The fluff is separated from the crunch, so if I read the fluff entry on Beastmen, if I want to read the crunch, I must then flip to the statistics index. And there the recommended cards for the creature type are not listed, so you either have to flip to the appropriate cards index and sift through them, or pull out your cards. Why the Hell didn't they design it like they did in Tome of Adventure? There the fluff is side by side with the crunch, and the recommended cards for the creature type are reproduced.

Does anyone know of an index, fan made or official, that at least has the crunch and the recommended cards listed by creature type?

[Rob Heath]

not that i have found , i guess its time for the scanner again

Rob

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[Karma Kollapse]

The Creature Guide is terrible. I bought it to give me more options for beastmen... and only got details for a Minotaur in addition to what we already had. That was pretty much the story for every group. Was very disappointed with it.

> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 08:31:15 -0800
> From: kils...@gmail.com
> To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Love/Hate Rules Relationships

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[Josiah Leis]

There IS a fan-made list of suggested action cards for each creature. I will try to find it when I get home.

[kils...@gmail.com]

Perfect. TY

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[Joseph Begay]

Is the one by Amketch and valvorik the one you were thinking of?

http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/docs/WFRP3%20Creature%20Action%20Cards.pdf

Joe.

On 3/8/13 7:50 AM, "Josiah Leis" <josiah...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Josiah Leis]

Yes, thank you for finding it :-).

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