Important question about critical wounds

[Steve of the Red Fez]

Hey, folks! This might seem like an obvious question but it's been bothering me. I know you achieve a critical wound when you roll enough boons equal to your weapons critical rating/rolling a comet. However, when a card says "+1 critical" does that mean...

1. You achieve a critical wound even if you didn't roll enough boons to equal your critical rating/rolling a comet

or does it mean...

2. It ADDS an EXTRA critical wound only IF you have already achieved a critical by rolling enough boons/rolling a comet

If the first version is true, does that mean the foe will have just one critical wound (which is what I'd assume)? If the second version is true, does it mean the target has two critical wounds (again, I'm assuming it does)?

Just as a note, so far I've been playing that a "+1 critical" result from an action card actually creates a critical wound. However, I've been re-reading the rules again just for fun and for a more detailed understanding of the game mechanics which is why I've begun to question this.

Thanks!

--Steve--

[Josiah Leis]

It is no. 1. "Critical Damage" is the same thing as +1 Critical also.

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[Rob Heath]

normally a criticlal wound is one of the wounds that you have suffered , a +1 critical is an extra wound that is added you the total wounds suffered for that attack

Rob

[Philippe Boujon]

I agree with Josiah, but in the example where a character achieve:

3 boons from the sword

 +1 critical from action

Then, I read that as being 2 wounds converted into 2 crits

Sent from my iPad

[Josiah Leis]

Phillipe is correct. The "+1 Critical" converts 1 normal wound to a critical, it does not add to the wound total.

[John Condon]

It simply converts an additional wound into a Critical wound.

So if you got 3 wounds on your target after applying soak then 1 of those wounds will be converted to a critical wound from your action triggered ability.

If you also rolled enough boons to get a critical result then another one of those wounds is converted to a critical wound.

If you also rolled a sigmar's comet and elected to trigger a critical then a third wound is then converted to a critical.

What it does not do is add any additional normal wounds.

How this works i f you rolled minimum damage and only got 1 wound through I actually cannot recall. Someone else with a book to hand or an interpretive and steel trap like mind may be able to illuminate that though.

So the scenario is...

I've rolled enough boons to trigger a critical thanks to the weapons critical rating.

I also rolled  sigmar's comet and have chosen to use it for a critical also

My action allows me to get an additional critical from the result.

So that's 3 criticals. However my opponent is a Dragon Ogre with stupid soak (lets say 15) and I only got a damage total of 9.

What gets through? and how many of the wounds are criticals?

[Josiah Leis]

John, you would deal 3 Normal.wounds in that instance.

--

[Josiah Leis]

Basically, the number of crits you would normally deal becomes the new "minimum damage".

[Rob Heath]

quote from page 87 of the players guide

 It is important to note that when an action or effect states that it

inflicts critical damage, this means that one or more of the normal

wound cards are placed face up to indicate a critical wound. An

effect that said +1 critical, for example, would result in one extra

critical wound in addition to any other critical wounds inflicted.

Rob

[Josiah Leis]

Aye, so just like that passage says they are converted, not new or extra wounds added.

[Karma Kollapse]

So here's a follow up question:
There's an optional rule that lets you convert a critical wound's severity rating to additional wounds if the target is an unimportant NPC or creature (e.g. a bog standard orc). If the orc's soak was enough that only 1 wound got through, and you hit for 2 criticals, do you think the severity of 2 criticals or just 1 critical should be applied?

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:42:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Important question about critical wounds
From: josiah...@gmail.com
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com

[Josiah Leis]

Page 8 of the FAQ:

Damage & Critical Damage

Many attacks have the potential to inflict damage to the target.  Damage is a representation of the potential wounds the target may suffer from. When an effect lists a result such as +1 damage, that modifies the attack’s damage potential. Different sources of damage are cumulative. +1 damage from one effect and +2 damage from a second effect would have a final result of +3 damage.  When an effect lists a result such as critical damage or +1 critical

damage, that does not modify the attack’s damage potential – rather, it influences how many of the final wounds inflicted become critical wounds. Therefore, a result of +1 critical damage means “one additional wound among those inflicted becomes a critical wound” and is cumulative with any other critical effects.

Streamlining Critical Damage Effects

An effect that states “inflicts critical damage” is mechanically identical to an effect that stats “+1 critical damage.” Different sources of critical damage are cumulative, so effects/sources that say “inflicts critical damage” will stack with effects/sources that state “+1 critical damage.”

In answer to your question Karma I would say that 1 wound is a crit with the severity applied, the other is just a normal wound.  I'm not sure that is right, but I think someone had an answer from FFG that was something similar to that.

[Alexander Jenner]

as a GM i would just convert the severity into additional wounds and let the poor orcsie die a bloody death ;)

(swapping left over damage on the next henchman orc - even if it kills another)

[Karma Kollapse]

If it were henchmen I'd hardly worry tbh - henchmen are there to die and little else! However I've seen pretty spectacular numbers from a sigmarite using Sigmar's Hammer with this rule (what with the amount of +critical that card has!). Might be something for me to keep in mind for next time.

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:52:43 +0100

Subject: Re: Important question about critical wounds

From: thepr...@gmail.com
To: wfrp3-vi...@googlegroups.com

[Josiah Leis]

Actually I went back and found the answer to Karma's question.

According to the actual answer from FFG if you inflict more Criticals than Normal wounds, then all normal wounds become criticals, but any extra Criticals are wasted. 

Of course whether you actually want to play that way is up to you :).

[Philippe Boujon]

Josiah, is that for both PCs and NPCs? I think it is but since you may have the book open I am asking ;)

For ex: If a PC in in full plate with high toughness, for a total soak of say 10, and just had an Ungor being very lucky striking the PC for 8 dmgs, +3 critical. What then? I would say it is 3 wounds, one being critical. Am I right?

For henchmen, I clearly don't bother, as Alex said. If an henchmen group just got 3 criticals in the face, they are out.

--

[Josiah Leis]

Per the RAW Phillipe it would just be 3 regular wounds, you have to actually penetrate the soak to deal criticals. It does not mention any exceptions for NPCs vs. PCs.

Naturally, as a GM you are free to play whatever way you wish :-).

[Josiah Leis]

Naturally people may want to double check me on things. I am going from memory and don't actually have the book with me atm.

[Philippe Boujon]

Oh ok. No i am cool with that, I just thought that since a hit is always = 1 wound, no matter the soak, that wound could be a critical if a critical was scored.

[John Condon]

I can see you logic there Philippe but I suspect the idea is that only actual penetrative wounds can be converted into crits.

[Philippe Boujon]

That would made sense too indeed, otherwise what's the point of a high soak :)

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:50 PM, John Condon <johnec...@googlemail.com> wrote:

I can see you logic there Philippe but I suspect the idea is that only actual penetrative wounds can be converted into crits.

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[Steve of the Red Fez]

Thanks for all of your answers!