Help! Question about creature action cards

[Steve of the Red Fez]

So I finally broke down and bought the creature guide. Up to now I just had the creature vault and figured things out for myself. Ah, blessed ignorance! Now I'm wondering if I've been doing things wrong all this time. Let me explain...

First, let me say that I've never fully understood the creature action cards. The fact that some of them are almost indistinguishable from character action cards makes it even worse (why did they do that?!?). In fact, "Dazzling Display" is an attack card that entirely looks like a character action card. The only trait it lists is Diestro. If I had a Diestro I'd probably want that card too! But this is not the reason for my sudden doubt.

Note: For the rest of this post I will be using the Greenskins (not counting the Squig or adventure specific foes) for my examples. This gives us Snotlings, Goblins, Orcs, and Black Orcs.

Here is my first question: Looking briefly through the book they tell me that creatures all have basic actions. I assume this means the basic actions that the characters get. Is that correct? Does this include the actions with the traits, "Basic, Greenskins"? In this example, does this mean all Greenskins get, "Chop!" and "Stick Em wif da Pointy End" (they both say, "Basic, Greenskins")? Or maybe it means the ONLY basic actions they get are those two?

Second question: The way I used to give out action cards to my foes was Id give them access to all cards that were labelled Greenskins. This meant they got (in addition to the above basic cards) Stomp, Swarm 'Em!, Jeer n Jab, Warpath, Crush Em Good!, Da Big Smash!, Pig Sticka, and Ed Butt! As you can see, that's a lot of cards and I was always thinking this couldn't be right!

Now ive skimmed the book and it tells me creatures can only get extra action cards relating to the action card symbols on their stat cards. However, of all the Greenskins, only the Black Orc is entitled to ANY extra action cards, and even then he only gets one melee card. This can't be right. I can't see "Swarm Em!" being used by Black Orcs, and I can't see Snotlings or Goblins NOT using that card. This also means that ALL of the other Greenskins only get their basic action cards and that's it.

So my question? WHO THE HELL GETS WHAT CARDS?!?!?

Oh, and, yes, I know I can just wing it but I'd like to know how it really is supposed to work!

Thanks!

Steve

[Steve of the Red Fez]

Wow! Usually by now there'd be a torrent of replies! Did I word it poorly? If so, let me know and I'll try to explain differently. Is it possible that others don't know how the cards work either?

[Josiah Leis]

In answer to question number 1: Basic cards mean the Basic ones everybody gets (Dodge, Melee Strike, etc.) assuming they qualify.  It does NOT mean all the other ones that have the "basic" trait.

In answer to the 2nd question.......you wing it :).  There is no "hard and fast" way of doing it.  I usually like to add 1 special card for ordinary henchmen or run of the mill NPCs, maybe 2 for leader\cut above average NPCs.  For nemesis I will add a full array of 4 or 5 of them.  All of them I naturally try to draw either from cards that have their trait, or make sense for them to have. 

If you really want a hard and fast guide, a good rule of thumb is probably whatever the Tome of Adventure says they get, plus this fan made list of cards to go with various creature types: http://gitzmansgallery.com/docs/WFRP3%20Creature%20Action%20Cards.pdf 

I honestly don't think there is a "set" way of doing things, just whatever you feel the encounter needs to make it memorable :).  If you're putting it together on the fly, I'd just use the ToA, or if they aren't in their then the fan made list if they qualify for the card listed.

[Philippe Boujon]

Yep, I think it is the latter. The thing is Steve, you were perfectly clear. There is a disconnect in between the Tome of Adventure, Creature Vault and Creature Guide rules.

I cannot tell you what FFG meant, but I can tell you what I do.

First, I do not give all Greenskin actions to every greenskin group. Why? Because then each greenskin group is going to be similar. What's the fun in that? Greenskins, like PCs, have their specialties. Some groups prefer the ambushing, some prefer swarming etc...

So, for a given Greenskin group, depending on what the group hopes to achieve, I choose from the Greenskin actions. Then, I give this group the Basic player actions BUT ONLY if it isn't a group of henchmen. Why? Because henchmen are going to die so fast that I won't even bother giving them more than one or two actions.

If the group includes a named NPC, I will give that NPC a number of special actions, just for him to use, up to his treat level. Why? Because as you pointed out, there number of additional actions on a creature card is ridiculously low.

If the group includes a Nemesis, all bets are off, I will give him whatever I want.

Keep in mind that actions are shared by a group, for ex Greenskin. Each creature doesn't get his own action.

Sorry, I know it isn't answering your question but I have stopped trying to reconciliate FFG rules regarding creatures actions. 

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[Josiah Leis]

Wow, having went back and looked at that fan made list I have to say it is quite well done.  Be sure to check it out, it gives pretty good guidelines for "standard" cards to give creatures if you have to throw together an encounter on the fly.

[Steve of the Red Fez]

Okay, this actually answers my question in a way. Apparently I am not confused nor have I missed something. They just basically never dealt with the issue properly?

I have to say, I love this game but there are lots of times (with this and other FFG games) when I get the sense that a lot of stuff was designed without actual play involved. I think most GMs would've told them to deal with this during the test phase, just like the awesome concept/terrible mechanics behind the party sheets. I find a lot of "hand waving" and winging it is required to make this system really sing.

I appreciate you guys giving me some help. It sounds like the only thing I was really doing wrong was assuming there was a mechanical plan to these cards, hence my trying to find and assign them all to their proper owners. With that in mind, let me now ask two more questions and tell me what you think they INTENDED the usage to be?

first, you said they DON'T get their own basic cards? I'm not sure I understand this. For players, basic cards are automatic. For creatures... what are they there for?

Second question: what about cards that specifically say they belong to a creature? Do you think they intended for them to automatically be given to them. For example, Skaven Clan Eshin have their "warpstone throwing stars" card which specifies they belong to the Clan Eshin assassin.

Oh! I almost forgot! What's the deal with cards that look exactly like they are for players (like my Diestro card example)? Does anyone understand the design intent there? Is there a good reason to make them look exactly the same? I think one supplement even suggested letting players use them when reasonable (not sure if I recall that correctly). This seems really backwards to me. Am I wrong?

[Philippe Boujon]

It is actually clearly stated that creatures of a same type (ex: Gobelins) share actions cards. Thus, they do not get their own basic cards. I think FFG did that to alleviate the GM of dealing with multiple  Parry for example. Also, it gives the PCs an advantage but often the creatures would out number them. It balances.

Yes, action cards they clearly belong to a type of creature is for that type of creature, but again, if you have 5 assassins of the clan eshin, they will share that action card, so not all 5 of them can throw at the same time.

The deal with cards that looks to be ok for PCs is that those cards are for special NPCs from adventures. For example, the card you mentioned is for an Estalian Diestro in The Gathering Storm. It is his special action. You can rule that a PC may have access to it, but be mindful that often those actions are powerful because the NPCs may only get one or two actions, versus the PCs who have many.

[Steve of the Red Fez]

Hmmm... This makes me even more regretful that they didn't make creature cards look fundamentally different from pc cards. If my cards ever got mixed up there are a few I wouldn't be able to tell apart without hunting for the set symbols.