Our upcoming tournament

[Justin]

So, I have been hammering out a small list of rules, tips and guidelines for the Fantasy tournament on the 26th I am going to be running them by Colin this weekend and I will post them soon.

 

Some of what we will have at the tournament will be Fantasy specific terrain I have been working on. Tables will be preset with said terrain and players will roll for a random table:

• Ghost Fences
• Sinister Statue
• Sorcerers Portal
• Idol of Gork
• Tower of Blood
• Nehekharan Sphinx

I have included a picture of the Sphinx in progress.

 

If anyone has additional questions or would like to build a piece to participate let me know.

 

Thanks, Justin

[mick]

You crazy modeler!! A tube of green stuff and you hit the ground
running...

I am really looking forward to your tourney. Unfortunately, I have to
give a presentation from 10-12 that morning, so it might be 1pm before
I show up at the store. If that is too late, I understand...

Give me a call and we can talk about some of the ideas you mentioned
for the tourney. I was thinking it might be cool to have a villians n
heroes theme so that you can have both side of each bonus idea. Since
some armies are structurally unable to do some of the bonus situations
you talked about. Just a thought...

[TF]

This looks like an outstanding idea.  Agree with Mick on the bonus situations though. 

---

From: mick <mrra...@win.net>
To: Warhammer Fantasy Battle at The Louisville Game Shop <wfhba...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:01:47 PM
Subject: Re: Our upcoming tournament

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[Justin]

Yeah a lot of people can't make it until 1:00 that day myself included so it will most likely start at 1:00.

 

I like that idea but I have already chosen the theme so, maybe the next one will be based on heroes and honour. It compliments the new release of the Orcs & Goblins and Skaven.

 

I'm calling it The Tournament of Thieves, Low lifes and Scoundrels.

 

Don't worry about the tournament special rules until they come out. The rules will only help you accrue victory points and all types of armies will benefit from them. Players will also only be able to field one list so all players should have their best balanced list to battle all others. Also, I believe the tournament will be solely based on Victory Points and there should be 3, 2 hour games per player so, plenty of chances to score.

 

So, here are the example special rules:

• Thief- When any model carrying magic items or banners dies in close combat said items are stolen from them and will add to VP on top of the full point value for the model itself. i.e. a Wood Elf Glade Guard SB dies in close combat and has the banner of zenith worth 25pts. If he is slain you receive 25VP on top of the entire unit cost (Which originally includes the price of the banner). The same as if a Warriors of Chaos Exalted Hero dies in combat you receive additional 50 points (or however many points he is carrying) for its magic items as well as the entire model points for killing the model. Note: Gifts of Chaos, Vampiric Powers, Virtues, Kindred Members etc.. may obviously not be stolen.
• Big Bully- Any hero, champion or monster that kills any hero, champion or monster in close combat more than 2 times per battle receives an extra 50 VP.
• Yellow Belly - Any unit/model that successfully (is not destroyed by the antagonistic unit) flees from a charge/close combat receives an additional 25 VP.
• Back Stabbing - Any unit/model that is destroyed as the result of a flank or rear charge receives 25 VP or 50 VP respectively. This rule may stack with assassin rule.
• Scoundrel - Once during the entire tournament a player may remove an opponents single dice before or after it is rolled. As a rotten no good plotter you have obviously sabotaged your adversary. This ability may not be used during deployment or for stat or characteristic tests. Example: you have caused a wound to an opponents hero and he must make a ward save to pass. After he has rolled the dice and passes you decide to remove it. That hero has just now failed its ward save. I am sure you can come up with more creative ways to use this. Let the threats, raucous and name calling ensue!! Insert: evil laughter.
• Hey That's Mine! - Players that win the Watch Tower or Blood and Glory scenarios receive an additional 300 VP. These points are only earned based on victory conditions not VP. Keep in mind you auto lose Blood and Glory if your army does not contain a SB or BSB as per the rule book.
• Low Life - Any hero or champion that flees off the table receives an extra 15 VP.
• I would kick your ass if he weren't holding me back! - Any hero or champion that refuses a challenge receives an additional 15 VP.
• Assassin - Any hero destroyed as the result of a flank or rear charge the destroying player gains 50 VP or 75 VP respectively. Note: some units do not have Flanks or Rears and or have rules stating they do not count as having them. If so ignore the Assassin and Back Stabbing special rules against them.
• Surprise Surprise! - Units with the Scout or Ambushers rule or deployed as Reserves are only worth half their VP unless they are destroyed in Close Combat.

No worries I will have a handy dandy sheet for all to track these rules and mark down your points.

 

I am not exactly certain if the special VP are balanced as well as the rules themselves so, I will need some constructive criticism. I will be compiling the rest of the stuff soon and will post it after Colin gives the go ahead.

 

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[mick]

Justin,
Tons of great work!!! I love the idea of special rules to really
screw with the game.

"Scoundrel" is my favorite... but there may be some clever way to
auto win with it... especially since there are a lot of dice rolls in
the game

Maybe instead let it happen once per game (instead of once per
tourney, since this would be hard to track anyway), and instead of
removing a dice, force a re-roll on any portion of the handful of dice
just rolled (even if the dice had been re-rolled already) with no
restrictions.

So you could force an opponent to..
re-roll to go first
re-roll all his successful saves at a particular initiative level in a
round of combat
re-roll an initiative/characteristic test
re-roll winds of magic (or just one of the two dice)
re-roll the power dice to cast a spell (or just the high ones)
re-roll the dispell dice (or just the high ones)
re-roll a charge (or just the high ones)

The great thing is that this can affect any part of the game.

Per our conversation, it would be fun to have a special rule that
affects each phase of the game, so a rule to mess up magic, assaults
or shooting. And then this fourth one that affects everything. And I
like the idea that there is a VP penalty to activate any of these
rules. Lastly you should only be able to do one of them once per
game.

If you want to be democratic, come up with the four rules, then let
people vote on how many victory points you have to give up to activate
the rule (then average the results). This will also help balance out
the four special rules to each other (the nastier it is, the more it
costs you).

Then as you enter the tourney, you get to pick which one you want to
have available. I would also make it a requirement that your opponent
has to know which rule you picked (cause they are game changing
enough, even if you know what is coming). Then let villany ensue!


Just to throw a few ideas out there...

"He hits like a Girl!" - Reduce all enemy units to WS1 for one player
turn.

"Achilles Heel" - Reduce all enemy units by 2 toughness (cannot be
reduced below toughness 1) for one player turn.

"Youz is a Bunch of Pansys!"- All leadership rolls are at -2 (after
all modifiers are applied) and successful rolls must be re-rolled for
one player turn (ignoring the rule that says a dice can only be re-
rolled once).

"On Crutches" - Reduce all movement/charges in half, rounded down for
one game turn (must be announced prior to the start of the game
turn). Also all cavalry/monsters/chariots on both sides must treat
the entire table as dangerous terrain this game turn (rotation doesn't
count as movement).

"It was a Dark and Cloudy Night" - All shooting is at -2 to hit for
one player turn. Any shooting that does not use BS must roll a 4+ to
be able to fire (or you can copy the wording of the storm banner
exactly and have it potentially last multiple player turns)

"Winds? What Magic Winds?" - All successful magic casting is at -2
and all dispell rolls are at +1 for one player turn.

OR way WAY WAY more evil (my favorite) !!

"How Much Do You Want It?" - ALL spells for one game turn (must be
announced prior to the start of the game turn) are cast automatically
but also cause an automatic miscast (no dice are used). All dispell
attempts succeed automatically (no dice are used) and ALSO cause a
miscast. This game turn, all dispells MUST be cast by a specific
wizard or character (who will bear the brunt of the miscast WHEN it
occurs). If non-wizard characters are used...

miscast 8-9 - affects all of your characters instead of all your
wizards
miscast 10-12 - you lose "wounds" instead of "wizard levels"

This game turn, miscasting may NOT be modified in ANYWAY by ANYTHING.
Only saves/ward saves are allowed. Seriously, there is no way around
applying the results as rolled to the wizard/character nominated.

The results of the miscast occur BEFORE the spell/dispell but the
spell or dispell still occurs. Lastly, dispells may themselves be
dispelled (letting the original cast go thru). Yes, it is a game of
russian ruelette with a full chamber.

BWaaahhhHaaHaa!!

[TF]

I like some of the ideas that you put forth.

However, I think that by doing so many different add-ons to the rules, it will greatly effect the balance of the game.  Yes I know that it is a GW game.  It can also turn well laid plans to dust even if the dice don't.

 

I put forth that you have maybe one or two special rules that don't effect to much of the game and maybe focus on the objectives and how many pts they could be.  For example, if you control one table quater without any enemy troops in it then you get 500 vps. 

 

 

---

From: mick <mrra...@win.net>
To: Warhammer Fantasy Battle at The Louisville Game Shop <wfhba...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 1:16:01 PM

Subject: Re: Our upcoming tournament

[Justin]

Awesome input! I like all those ideas guys and I am glad we have some input from players. I am going to save those rules Mike, in a document for later. I must say though I am trying to meet demands from all because I know added rules can make the game more fun and interesting but they can also take away from it if not done properly. I used to design games and build maps and over time I came to realise K.I.S.S. really has a lot of wisdom to it.

.

Tell you what, here is what we have so far. This is Colins take on my tournament special rules from what I gathered from our conversation. Keep them simple short and easy to remember which I agree with.

 

His idea was a list of 3-4 really good rules but all could only be used once per game and were chosen just prior to battle and after deployment. I thought five made it more interesting and I think if your choosing 1 then a few more can not hurt as long as all armies can benefit from them in some way and it does not break the game.

 

My original rules were designed only to help you gain VP (my favorite) not alter the game (which I am not a fan of) so I really am not sure where we need to go with this but here is the new list me and big C developed.

 

One chosen prior to battle, Both players know what the other has, The player who goes first chooses first and Once per Game...

1. Low Life - You may turn any artillery dice into a misfire as you have sabotaged something that is unstable. 
2. Assassin - When a Hero/Champ defeats an opposing Hero/Champ in CC he earns double VP.
3. Scondrel - Make any D6 roll by the opponent a 1 after it is rolled. This does not have to be declared until after the roll and may not be used for stat tests or deployment.
4. Thief - When any model carrying any magics items/standards dies in CC you get points for those items on top of that models total value which originally includes the points for the magic items.
5. Surprise, Surprise! - One unit in your army may benefit from the Vanguard special rule. This will trump any other scenario special deployment rules.

Of Course we must/can/should? expand on these rules fine tune em and put examples with them but I think they are solid and won't break the game... I hope b/c you never know until it is played out. There will be a sheet for all players to use during the tournament with the special rules on them.

 

Also, C thought it would be good to earn VP if you won or else there is no incentive to win. I argue the incentive to win is based on the fact that the only way to win the tourney is VP. Not to mention if 2 players had a close game it will drive them play more decisively in tournament round 2 and 3

 

I did however already have a rule giving players 300 VP for meeting the objectives in the watch tower and blood and glory scenarios as there would be no incentive to meet objectives and just rack up VP.

 

So, even though I am hosting this tournament I think it would beneficial to be Democratic. How does...150 VP for winning any battle sound but you get 300 for meeting the above scenarios (WT,BG) criteria for winning?

 

GUYS I encourage you all to weigh in so if it's just me, Colin, Mike and Tim then that is all the input we will get. I'll post the new rules by Saturday and send them to Colin, so... better participate if you really think the tournament Special rules need some tweaks.

 

By the way you earn the VP for what you kill not the difference between your scores. It will be good to cause carnage. And for God sakes please help me build some warhammer specific terrain! :)

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[TF]

I am not to sure of the Battle for the pass or watch tower being good tourny missions.  These tend to favor certain armies. 

I think that number 1 and number three need to change also. 

 

For number 1 if a player brings just one war machine to kill monsters or the skaven things, then the oppeant chooses number one then ur game plan is screwed.  Maybe change this one to triple pts for standards.

 

For number three, I would just change this to reroll once per game and still keep the extra stuff you have.  I think it will be good for balance that way.

 

Another idea to put forth would be the instead of letting someone choose, roll a D6 and take that result. 

 

When and what pts again for this tourny?

 

Tim

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From: Justin <jcr...@gmail.com>
To: wfhba...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 7:16:21 PM

[Justin]

Blood and Glory and Watch Tower are the only 2 scenarios that are won by VP.

 

GW specifiaclly mentions not to remove scenarios based on players because the intentions were for all armies not being equal on all battle grounds so everybody would have an advatage somewhere etc... They have been tweaking this game for decades I would like to think this is a bucnh of game masters figuring these things out not to mention the amount of money at stake if this game sucks.

   

My Bretonnians are all cavalry so they have an obvious disadvantage in watch tower but I have my plans :) the same could also be said for the other scenarios with other armies. This is why players need to bring a balanced list.

They are all one use only per game. Especially number 3! that would suck for anyone!

 

Yeah I know, number 1 will suck specifically for some lists maybe we can work on that one.

I think choosing makes it more fun and tactical but if you can get 3 people to disagree you will have trumpt me and Colin.

 

2000 strict. 1 list only. March 26. 1 pm.

[TF]

Might have to revert back to my beastmen if it is only 2000

---

From: Justin <jcr...@gmail.com>
To: wfhba...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:12:45 PM

[mick]

#1 - is particularly harsh for skaven who have their own "special"
misfire chart. A chart that basically says, take it off the board.
It is a free 100 VPs to the other guy....

#3 - forcing a reroll is fine (even a re-roll with a negative
modifier). But making it an auto-failure... depending on the
specific roll, it is as bad as #1

Everything else is fine.

[TF]

I am going to attempt to make this tourny.  However, it still depends on work that day.
IF I do make it.  I will bring one table for use.  Hopefully that helps with the terrian building.  I will have a tower.

 

Tim

---

From: mick <mrra...@win.net>
To: Warhammer Fantasy Battle at The Louisville Game Shop <wfhba...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 4:01:54 PM

Subject: Re: Our upcoming tournament

[Justin]

Yeah I had considered combining #1 and #3 and just making it change the value rolled to the lowest result (and maybe opposite for leadership tests) on any dice roll which would cover artillery, D3s and D6s. It isn't as harsh as you might think in the grand scheme of things because there are actually lots of armies that have very bad misfire results.. Lead Belchers, Razordons, Hellcannons, some Empire warmachines, Orc and Goblin Doom Divers even their ballistas misfire now etc... The point is for them all to balance for use with any ones army and all be situationalyl just as powerful.

 

If attempting to blow up a warmachine is as creative of a thing a player can come up with during a battle then you will most likely out wit them and win anyway. Remember your taking the same ability from yourself as well if we drop it. I am trying to concentrate on everyone.

 

I would use #1 or #3 or the combination if the rule changes when...

• their general makes its final save or rolls heroic killing blow on an HPA
• a huge important combat needs an important roll
• they are fleeing and you want to make sure and catch their 600 pt unit 
• after the warmachine has already misfired (which is surprisingly often anyway) and make sure it blows up on its chart
• when a wizard miscasts and gets a 2 to 4 on the chart then has to roll a 3 up to stay alive
• when an anvil of doom is hammered
• when a cannon ball hits your general and does multiple wounds
• when a breath weapon or thunder stomp is used against one of your important units
• when a mounted general takes a dangerous terrain test etc... 

Now I feel like I really should combine 1 and 3  into one and make Low Life a new 5th any ideas?

 

You know whats funny I heard someone else say the Vanguard rule was one of the best and I think for me that Assassin (double VP hero on hero death) would be awesome because the two armies I have have ultra offensive heros designed almost solely to punish opposing characters.