Anvil of Doom vs Brass Orb / Warp Lightning

[mick]

Running a magic heavy Skaven army, you can imagine the problems that
the Anvil causes. :) So I was looking at the Anvil's rules after
fighting a really great battle with those pesky longbeards and I
couldn't find some stuff. I did find this...

Anvil of Doom (while Runelord is alive) adds one extra dice to the
Dwarf's dispell pool - page 30 (bottom right column)

Runesmith gives an extra dispell dice in the enemy's Magic phase -
page 30 (bottom left column

Runelord gives two extra dispell dice in the enemy's Magic phase -
page 30 (bottom left column.

So a Runelord and Anvil will give a total of three extra dispell dice.

But where does it say to take an enemy dice from his casting pool on
the enemy's Magic phase? It is some special character ability?

Regarding shooting the Anvil, the rules seem to say that you can't
shoot at the anvil at all (it is like shooting at a hill or tree),
instead you randomize between any/all dwarfs on the Anvil (it doesn't
even have a statline), BUT it is a warmachine - page 30 (middle right
column).

The anvil guard dwarfs are T4, Init 2, have a 4+ save and gain a 4+
ward save against all missile attacks.

The Runesmith is T4, Init 2, has a 4+ save and and gains a 4+ ward
save against all missile attacks.

The Runelord is T5, Init 3, has a 4+ save and and gains a 4+ ward save
against all missile attacks.

Warmachines automatically fail all characteristic tests, save for
Toughness and Leadership tests per the BRB page 108

Lastly, template weapons hit all parts of a multipart model if any
part of it is touched by a template per the BRB page 9.

Putting it all together, it seems like if the Warp Lightning Cannon
traces a path thru the anvil, then its strength is compared to one of
the dwarfs toughness (either T4 or T5). Further, if the template of
the Warp Lightning Cannon touches the Anvil, then additionally, every
model on the Anvil takes a hit (against either on T4 or T5). They
then get their save (assuming the negative armour modifiers don't
eliminate it) and a ward save (I think cannons and stone throwers
count as missiles even though I can't find the rule that specifically
says this).

Regarding the Brass Orb against the Anvil...

if the Brass Orb template hits any part of the Anvil the anvil itself
automatically fails its initiative test and is removed. Normally the
crew would also take an initiative test, but per BRB p108, if the
warmachine is removed, then all crew are also removed.

Am I missing something? I haven't been playing for long so maybe I am
missing some really obvious issues....

[Gary Shaffer]

Hey Mick

 

Regarding shooting the Anvil, the rules seem to say that you can't

shoot at the anvil at all (it is like shooting at a hill or tree),

instead you randomize between any/all dwarfs on the Anvil (it doesn't

even have a statline), BUT it is a warmachine - page 30 (middle right

column).

 

According the current dwarf FAQ, the Anvil has a stat line with a T10 and 5W with all other stats of the Runelord and Guards. 

 

You can shoot it now.

 

Putting it all together, it seems like if the Warp Lightning Cannon

traces a path thru the anvil, then its strength is compared to one of

the dwarfs toughness (either T4 or T5).  Further, if the template of

the Warp Lightning Cannon touches the Anvil, then additionally, every

model on the Anvil takes a hit (against either on T4 or T5).  They

then get their save (assuming the negative armour modifiers don't

eliminate it) and a ward save (I think cannons and stone throwers

count as missiles even though I can't find the rule that specifically

says this).

 

Since it i a war machine you would use it toughness of 10 for wounding. According the current FAQ remove the first 2 guards with the first two wounds and then the Runelord when the fifth

 

Regarding the Brass Orb against the Anvil...

 

if the Brass Orb template hits any part of the Anvil the anvil itself

automatically fails its initiative test and is removed.  Normally the

crew would also take an initiative test, but per BRB p108, if the

warmachine is removed, then all crew are also removed.

 

Yes you are right

 

Gary

---

From: mick <mrra...@win.net>
To: Warhammer Fantasy Battle at The Louisville Game Shop <wfhba...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 2:58:06 PM
Subject: Anvil of Doom vs Brass Orb / Warp Lightning

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[Justin]

The Rune of Balance is the reason the Dwarf player is able to take one of your casting dice and add it to their pool. It can only be on the runesmith or runelord it is a 50 pt talismanic rune and is a master rune which means it can only used once in an army. There are other similar items in other army books which do the same thing i.e. Orcs and Goblins staff of sneaky stealin.

 

Hope that helped. Should be up there sunday for some gameage.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wfhbattlgs+...@googlegroups.com.

[mick]

Thanks Gary! I didn't think to check the FAQ... Okay, toughness 10
with a 4+/4+ save and five wounds... yeah, that fits how impossible
it was for me to shoot the Anvil off the table with the warp lightning
cannon.

Darn shame about that brass orb. :) I may try out the orb and the
doomrocket next game... Not just against dwarfs but against all
armies since the rulebook says that ALL warmachines fail initiative
tests. By the way, does anyone know if the Chaos Hellcannon has some
special rule or FAQ that would stop this?

Justin, your breath of knowledge is astonishing. I figured that I
missed something...

For those dwarf players out there, if you take the anvil, the runelord
and the rune of balance... you will almost always dominate magic. I
created an excel spread sheet of how many dispell dice you will have
(verses casting dice for your opponent). Anyone that wants to see it
can email me... but the short of it is that if your opponent rolls a
8 or lower on his winds of magic (which is 72% of the time), you will
have a....

11/26 chance of having four more dice than them
9/26 chance of having three more dice than them
5/26 chance of having two more dice than them
1/26 chance of having one more dice than them

And here are the stats for all 36 permutations...

11/36 chance of having four more dice than them
9/36 chance of having three more dice than them
7/36 chance of having two more dice than them
5/36 chance of having one more dice than them
3/36 chance of having equal dice as them
1/36 chance of having one less dice than them

Unless your opponent rolls a 12, you have ZERO chances of having less
dice... ZERO chance!!!! And most of the time, you will have twice as
many dice as they do.

This is called shooting fish in a barrel, by the way.

It is also pricy at 140 + 175 + 50 = 365, But it not only shuts down
your opponent's magic, it also boosts your assaults and blunts
theirs.

Can anything else shut down the Anvil besides a Brass Orb? I suppose
scouts could tie it up for a turn or two, but that only stops you from
using the wards... Maybe a flying monster or flying monstrous mount
could get in fast, but that 4+/4+ with five wounds means that almost
nothing is killing it fast...

[mick]

> By the way, does anyone know if the Chaos Hellcannon has some
> special rule or FAQ that would stop this?

Oops, I just realized that the Hellcannon is a Monster and not a
Warmachine per the BRB

[Justin]

No worries, the Hellcannon is Initiative 1... Adam just blasted one the other day.

 

Yeah the skitter leap orb combo is highly effective in my book. Good for most large things as most large things have a low initiative. I would say it was worth the points every time. Like 15 for the engineer and 40 for the item.. or something like that. I always say any good list should always have at least one good trick but not be a one trick pony.

 

The 4+ ward on the Anvil is only against shooting attacks and magic missles. Of course they still have 150 pts. of runes they can still stack on it... Yikes!

 

Every list should have something that is mobile and hits hard but not a whole lot of points if possible. My Justifications-

 

Mission1: Go straight after the AofD

Mission2: Go straight after enemy war machines

Mission3: Go to a flank and line up to crush a gun line army from the side

Mission4: Chase down a Slaan

Mission4: Smash lead belchers

Mission5: Catch cavalry in a flank or redirect them

Mission #1: Mess up the opponents game plan

 

But, to speak directly about dealing with the AofD if you don't have something like this in your list. Just avoid it and ignore it until turn 4. Concentrate your resources on the things that are going to do the most damage then devote some later to go get those points. Also, dwarfs for the most part are easily (well unless they are cunning) out maneuvered.

 

Hope thats a helpful bit of tacticia.

 

P.S. Thanks for the Kudos dude I just like to know what my opponents army is capable of so I know stuff.

[mick]

On Feb 2, 9:03 pm, Justin <jcre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My Justifications-

Would those be "Justin"-ifactions? ;)

I really need to play a game against Ogre Kingdom to learn about lead
belchers....
I have thought about taking Gutter Runners as an anti-warmachine unit,
but I am always tight on points and would rather take offense units
(like cannons) rather than defense units if they an both counter the
same item in my opponent's list.

#5 is just a blind spot for skaven. We just don't have any cavalry
units or fast units to be able to do this easily. And while those
gutter runners can infiltrate/scout, they are as weak as wet toilet
paper. The best option I have found is to set up flank blockers that
can tarpit.