Special: rare January 1988 interview with NusratFateh Ali Khan
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Vedprakash
Aug 19, 2012, 3:34:03 AM8/19/12
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This rare January 1988 interview with Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was first
� briefly �published on the internet journal Ragavani in 2007,
provided by Professor Hiromi Lorraine Sakata, Emeritus Professor at
the Department of Ethnomusicology at UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music.
Since the archives of the journal disappeared from the internet, we
wrote to Professor Sakata who graciously provided us the interview,
that was conducted by late Adam Nayyar, Director of the Pakistan
National Council for the Arts in Islamabad,
Adam Nayyar: What is the musical heritage of your family?
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: I come from the Qawwal Bachon ka Gharana [i],
which has been with us for many generations. Among the Gharanas, this
is considered to be a well-established one. Many famous musicians
belong to this Gharana: Ustad Fateh Ahmad Khan, Ustad Bare Mohammad
Khan, Ustad Bare Mubarik Ali Khan.
Apart from these, qawwal Gharanas had Tanras Khan, who has a Gharana
of his own and is the founder of the qawwals [ii]. Then there is Agan
Khan, Khan Sahib Behram Khan, these are qawwals, as are Haddu Hassu
Khan of the Gwalior Gharana.
Do other qawwals use so much raagdari as you do?
It is the most in our Gharana, because we place great value on
classical learning in the beginning. Our elders started the foundation
of classical music in the qawwali. They rendered rags correctly and
composed them into the qawwali.
When did your musical education start? How old were you then?
I was 13.
You didn't learn anything before that?
From childhood, I had been instructed in the tablaa by my father,
along with the astaais and antaraas specific to our Gharana. We were
encouraged to sing khayaal from childhood, especially the tarana. My
father gave me formal education in raagdari. He died in Lahore in 1964
when I was 13. I was in the tenth year of school, and my father's
brother took me into the qawwali ensemble and started giving me formal
education in qawwali.
At my father's first barsi [anniversary] in 1965, I gave my first
performance in front of musicians. In 1965, I also participated
publicly in the Jashn-e-Baharan (Festival of Spring) arranged by Radio
Pakistan Lahore. That started my qawwali. Many great masters of music
performed in that concert, Ustad Bare Ghulam Ali Khan, Ustad Umid Ali
Khan, Roshan Ara Begum, Ustad Amanat Ali Khan and Fateh Ali Khan,
Salamat Ali Khan & Nazakat Ali Khan, Ustad Ghulam Hassan Shaggan. They
all gave me encouragement, because they all knew and loved my father.
That was a wonderful concert, held in the open air on the lawns of the
radio station during spring. They gave me 500 rupees for my
performance, which was a great deal of money in those days. My opening
piece was a ghazal by Amir Khusrau: Man banda e aan ruh e ke didan. It
was in Farsi [Persian]. After that, I began to take part regularly in
programmes.
How did you get the title of Ustad?
Well, this was during the gathering of the Anjuman-e-Mausiqaran
(Society of Musicians) and I got the title together with Ustad Shaukat
Hussain Khan. I sang classical for that occasion. All the famous
ustads were there when it happened, back in 1984. I was also given a
shield by the society.
When I listen to older qawwalis, I notice that the rhythm is much more
complex than today. What is the reason for this?
It is a sign of the times. Our times are different and fewer listeners
are capable of picking up the nuances. Qawwali has changed now. In the
old days, qawwali had a great deal of thehraao (contemplation) and the
listeners were educated. The qawwalis of our Panjabi kafis were in
very difficult taals, like a kaafi in a panjtal saavari, qawwalis in
the ara chautala, a chenchal qawwali, a dhamaal qawwali. Those times
had qawwalis like that.
Those times have changed now. Now, when you start Farsi, people start
getting up and leaving! Those were wonderful times, because the
listeners were well aware of the texts. People listened to Farsi
texts, and to the great texts of our Baba Bulleh Shah, Khwaja Ghulam
Farid, Mian Mohammad Bakhsh Jehlmi. People do listen to it these days,
but much less than in those days.
You have a great knowledge of languages: you sing in Farsi, Panjabi,
Urdu and Purbi. However, I have noticed that when you sing in Panjabi,
there is a much deeper expression in your music.
There are two languages that I love: Farsi and Panjabi. Because the
depth of Sufi thought in these two languages cannot be found in any
other language. Panjabi is a language of ma�rifat (gnosis) and that is
why so many masters of the past have written in it. The qaul and
tarana of Hazrat Amir Khusrau are in Farsi in a set melody and bandish
and there are taranas in his Purbi compositions. Panjabi does not use
the tarana in qawwali.
Now what about the rang? What is this all about, people standing up
whenever the rang is recited?
This is an invention of Amir Khusrau. He saw a vision of the Prophet
(May Peace Be Upon Him) with his master sitting in the gathering of
the Prophet. The following morning, he wrote these words in a state of
ecstasy: aj rang he ri ma rang he ri, more mehbub ke ghar rang he.
This why we give this composition so much importance in India and
Pakistan, Gwalior, Ajmer Sharif, Nizamuddin Auliya. The listeners know
the importance of this, and the good manners and respect due to it. At
the end of the urs of Data Sahib, it is recited. It is believed that
when the rang is recited, the old masters come to the gathering along
with the Prophet. It is a gesture of respect that people stand up.
Apart from Data Sahib, where else do you perform qawwali?
Hazrat Baba Farid Shakarganj, all the famous shrines of Pakistan,
Taunsa Sharif, Chishtian Sharif, Kalyam Sharif, the system khanaqas
linked to the Chishtiya Silsila.
Do you have a silsila of your own?
Sabri silsila, Chishti-Sabri.
People say that your qawwali is very innovative. Can you explain this?
Innovation is there because the time demands it. We have to go out of
the country, too and people out there don't know our language.
Whatever we do for them with tempo, they accept it. We can only give
them the rhythm, the classical pieces, the sargam in the hope that the
text we are singing will filter through to them in this manner. If
there is an audience who doesn't understand the text at all, they will
still be moved by the music. It then becomes more of an art. Don�t you
remember, you saw it yourself in Japan when you were with us.
Have you ever thought of singing in a language that is not from our
area? I heard Salamat Ali Khan singing in French, which quite startled
me.
I have thought about it.
If they have sufi poets, their texts...
That is a very beautiful idea, a good thought, it can happen.
I have noticed that apart from singing in these high places, you still
go to very small modest villages to sing as well.
Yes, the villages of the Punjab are our foundation. We trace our
beginnings to the village. These people come from the Doaba and moved
with us from India to settle in villages here. If I don't sing in the
specific style of the Doaba, the Panjabi ang, people will not be
happy. Most of them have settled in villages around Faisalabad. It
affects the earlier people as well.
Now you also perform here near Gujar Khan. Are these also settlers
from the Doaba?
No, they are Pothwaris, but they love qawwali. There is the famous
shrine of Kalyam Sharif which is a Chishti-Sabri shrine and is famous
for qawwali. Pir Mehr Ali Shah went to him for allegiance. Khwaja
Suleman Taunsvi sent him there. It is because of Kalyam Sharif that
people of this area have a deep consciousness for listening to the
qawwali.
Which city of Pakistan do you think has the best listeners of qawwali?
Lahore. Then there is Karachi.
What about other qawwals like Aziz Mian, do they have a classical education?
No. They just memorize the texts, we give equal weight to both text
and music. We also depend on our mood, the mood of the audience and
the place where we perform. You may have noticed that no two qawwalis
of the same text are ever the same. We never fix the rendition. If we
have our people of the Doaba, they prefer to have a more contemplative
voice, so the rendition is different. Some people just listen to the
text, they don't know which raag and which rhythm is being applied.
They are linked to the text, but we have to bring them up to a certain
level. It is always our endeavour to pull the people in and teach them
about the complexities of the music while they are enjoying the texts.
We ensure that even if they don't understand the complexities, they
shouldn't lose interest in it.
You mean that you bring classical music to the people instead of
leaving it only for the enjoyment of the elite.
We try to do this and this is also our mission.
I also notice that you work very hard before a concert. When I was in
Japan with you, I noticed that you were watching Japanese television.
I wondered why you were doing this and you explained that we try to
find out their system of music.
Yes, they have raags too, but with different names, I try to find
which raags are liked by the people. We try to find out what the
essence is.
How long do you practice?
Practice has reduced significantly, because we have such a full
schedule. If we have any spare time, then I feel like passing the
whole day in practice. In the old days, we practiced for 10 hours
every day. We had that room downstairs, we closed the doors and had no
notion of night and day. My father and uncle used to sit there for
hours.
Have you passed on your art to someone else?
In our family, we have some children who are learning, we are teaching
them classical. My nephew Rahat Ali is our greatest hope, we teach him
classical. But he has to study and cannot work long hours that our art
demands. He even plays the tabla all by himself. By the grace of
Allah, we will move forward.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i] Literally, �the house of Qawwal Children� representing the
primordial qawwali group of 12 children said to have been assembled by
Amir Khusro in the 13th century ACE for a musical dialogue with a
Hindu religious luminary. Also the name given to a school of khayaal
gaiki founded in the 19th century. It is said that the last Mughal
emperor Bahadar Shah Zafar (1775-1862) passing by heard a group of
young boys singing sweetly and exclaimed, �They are worthy of
classical music!� and started extending patronage to them, resulting
in the formation of this sch
Reproduced By http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?282000
--
Avinash Shahi
MPhil Research Learner
Centre for Study of Law and Governance
Jawaharlal Nehru University
New Delhi India
If any time you wish to be unsubscribed from our Mailing List, please send a
message to
sayeveryth...@sayeverything.org
with the subject unsubscribe keeping the message body blank.
To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
visit the list home page at
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Website: http://www.sayeverything.org
� briefly �published on the internet journal Ragavani in 2007,
provided by Professor Hiromi Lorraine Sakata, Emeritus Professor at
the Department of Ethnomusicology at UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music.
Since the archives of the journal disappeared from the internet, we
wrote to Professor Sakata who graciously provided us the interview,
that was conducted by late Adam Nayyar, Director of the Pakistan
National Council for the Arts in Islamabad,
Adam Nayyar: What is the musical heritage of your family?
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: I come from the Qawwal Bachon ka Gharana [i],
which has been with us for many generations. Among the Gharanas, this
is considered to be a well-established one. Many famous musicians
belong to this Gharana: Ustad Fateh Ahmad Khan, Ustad Bare Mohammad
Khan, Ustad Bare Mubarik Ali Khan.
Apart from these, qawwal Gharanas had Tanras Khan, who has a Gharana
of his own and is the founder of the qawwals [ii]. Then there is Agan
Khan, Khan Sahib Behram Khan, these are qawwals, as are Haddu Hassu
Khan of the Gwalior Gharana.
Do other qawwals use so much raagdari as you do?
It is the most in our Gharana, because we place great value on
classical learning in the beginning. Our elders started the foundation
of classical music in the qawwali. They rendered rags correctly and
composed them into the qawwali.
When did your musical education start? How old were you then?
I was 13.
You didn't learn anything before that?
From childhood, I had been instructed in the tablaa by my father,
along with the astaais and antaraas specific to our Gharana. We were
encouraged to sing khayaal from childhood, especially the tarana. My
father gave me formal education in raagdari. He died in Lahore in 1964
when I was 13. I was in the tenth year of school, and my father's
brother took me into the qawwali ensemble and started giving me formal
education in qawwali.
At my father's first barsi [anniversary] in 1965, I gave my first
performance in front of musicians. In 1965, I also participated
publicly in the Jashn-e-Baharan (Festival of Spring) arranged by Radio
Pakistan Lahore. That started my qawwali. Many great masters of music
performed in that concert, Ustad Bare Ghulam Ali Khan, Ustad Umid Ali
Khan, Roshan Ara Begum, Ustad Amanat Ali Khan and Fateh Ali Khan,
Salamat Ali Khan & Nazakat Ali Khan, Ustad Ghulam Hassan Shaggan. They
all gave me encouragement, because they all knew and loved my father.
That was a wonderful concert, held in the open air on the lawns of the
radio station during spring. They gave me 500 rupees for my
performance, which was a great deal of money in those days. My opening
piece was a ghazal by Amir Khusrau: Man banda e aan ruh e ke didan. It
was in Farsi [Persian]. After that, I began to take part regularly in
programmes.
How did you get the title of Ustad?
Well, this was during the gathering of the Anjuman-e-Mausiqaran
(Society of Musicians) and I got the title together with Ustad Shaukat
Hussain Khan. I sang classical for that occasion. All the famous
ustads were there when it happened, back in 1984. I was also given a
shield by the society.
When I listen to older qawwalis, I notice that the rhythm is much more
complex than today. What is the reason for this?
It is a sign of the times. Our times are different and fewer listeners
are capable of picking up the nuances. Qawwali has changed now. In the
old days, qawwali had a great deal of thehraao (contemplation) and the
listeners were educated. The qawwalis of our Panjabi kafis were in
very difficult taals, like a kaafi in a panjtal saavari, qawwalis in
the ara chautala, a chenchal qawwali, a dhamaal qawwali. Those times
had qawwalis like that.
Those times have changed now. Now, when you start Farsi, people start
getting up and leaving! Those were wonderful times, because the
listeners were well aware of the texts. People listened to Farsi
texts, and to the great texts of our Baba Bulleh Shah, Khwaja Ghulam
Farid, Mian Mohammad Bakhsh Jehlmi. People do listen to it these days,
but much less than in those days.
You have a great knowledge of languages: you sing in Farsi, Panjabi,
Urdu and Purbi. However, I have noticed that when you sing in Panjabi,
there is a much deeper expression in your music.
There are two languages that I love: Farsi and Panjabi. Because the
depth of Sufi thought in these two languages cannot be found in any
other language. Panjabi is a language of ma�rifat (gnosis) and that is
why so many masters of the past have written in it. The qaul and
tarana of Hazrat Amir Khusrau are in Farsi in a set melody and bandish
and there are taranas in his Purbi compositions. Panjabi does not use
the tarana in qawwali.
Now what about the rang? What is this all about, people standing up
whenever the rang is recited?
This is an invention of Amir Khusrau. He saw a vision of the Prophet
(May Peace Be Upon Him) with his master sitting in the gathering of
the Prophet. The following morning, he wrote these words in a state of
ecstasy: aj rang he ri ma rang he ri, more mehbub ke ghar rang he.
This why we give this composition so much importance in India and
Pakistan, Gwalior, Ajmer Sharif, Nizamuddin Auliya. The listeners know
the importance of this, and the good manners and respect due to it. At
the end of the urs of Data Sahib, it is recited. It is believed that
when the rang is recited, the old masters come to the gathering along
with the Prophet. It is a gesture of respect that people stand up.
Apart from Data Sahib, where else do you perform qawwali?
Hazrat Baba Farid Shakarganj, all the famous shrines of Pakistan,
Taunsa Sharif, Chishtian Sharif, Kalyam Sharif, the system khanaqas
linked to the Chishtiya Silsila.
Do you have a silsila of your own?
Sabri silsila, Chishti-Sabri.
People say that your qawwali is very innovative. Can you explain this?
Innovation is there because the time demands it. We have to go out of
the country, too and people out there don't know our language.
Whatever we do for them with tempo, they accept it. We can only give
them the rhythm, the classical pieces, the sargam in the hope that the
text we are singing will filter through to them in this manner. If
there is an audience who doesn't understand the text at all, they will
still be moved by the music. It then becomes more of an art. Don�t you
remember, you saw it yourself in Japan when you were with us.
Have you ever thought of singing in a language that is not from our
area? I heard Salamat Ali Khan singing in French, which quite startled
me.
I have thought about it.
If they have sufi poets, their texts...
That is a very beautiful idea, a good thought, it can happen.
I have noticed that apart from singing in these high places, you still
go to very small modest villages to sing as well.
Yes, the villages of the Punjab are our foundation. We trace our
beginnings to the village. These people come from the Doaba and moved
with us from India to settle in villages here. If I don't sing in the
specific style of the Doaba, the Panjabi ang, people will not be
happy. Most of them have settled in villages around Faisalabad. It
affects the earlier people as well.
Now you also perform here near Gujar Khan. Are these also settlers
from the Doaba?
No, they are Pothwaris, but they love qawwali. There is the famous
shrine of Kalyam Sharif which is a Chishti-Sabri shrine and is famous
for qawwali. Pir Mehr Ali Shah went to him for allegiance. Khwaja
Suleman Taunsvi sent him there. It is because of Kalyam Sharif that
people of this area have a deep consciousness for listening to the
qawwali.
Which city of Pakistan do you think has the best listeners of qawwali?
Lahore. Then there is Karachi.
What about other qawwals like Aziz Mian, do they have a classical education?
No. They just memorize the texts, we give equal weight to both text
and music. We also depend on our mood, the mood of the audience and
the place where we perform. You may have noticed that no two qawwalis
of the same text are ever the same. We never fix the rendition. If we
have our people of the Doaba, they prefer to have a more contemplative
voice, so the rendition is different. Some people just listen to the
text, they don't know which raag and which rhythm is being applied.
They are linked to the text, but we have to bring them up to a certain
level. It is always our endeavour to pull the people in and teach them
about the complexities of the music while they are enjoying the texts.
We ensure that even if they don't understand the complexities, they
shouldn't lose interest in it.
You mean that you bring classical music to the people instead of
leaving it only for the enjoyment of the elite.
We try to do this and this is also our mission.
I also notice that you work very hard before a concert. When I was in
Japan with you, I noticed that you were watching Japanese television.
I wondered why you were doing this and you explained that we try to
find out their system of music.
Yes, they have raags too, but with different names, I try to find
which raags are liked by the people. We try to find out what the
essence is.
How long do you practice?
Practice has reduced significantly, because we have such a full
schedule. If we have any spare time, then I feel like passing the
whole day in practice. In the old days, we practiced for 10 hours
every day. We had that room downstairs, we closed the doors and had no
notion of night and day. My father and uncle used to sit there for
hours.
Have you passed on your art to someone else?
In our family, we have some children who are learning, we are teaching
them classical. My nephew Rahat Ali is our greatest hope, we teach him
classical. But he has to study and cannot work long hours that our art
demands. He even plays the tabla all by himself. By the grace of
Allah, we will move forward.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i] Literally, �the house of Qawwal Children� representing the
primordial qawwali group of 12 children said to have been assembled by
Amir Khusro in the 13th century ACE for a musical dialogue with a
Hindu religious luminary. Also the name given to a school of khayaal
gaiki founded in the 19th century. It is said that the last Mughal
emperor Bahadar Shah Zafar (1775-1862) passing by heard a group of
young boys singing sweetly and exclaimed, �They are worthy of
classical music!� and started extending patronage to them, resulting
in the formation of this sch
Reproduced By http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?282000
--
Avinash Shahi
MPhil Research Learner
Centre for Study of Law and Governance
Jawaharlal Nehru University
New Delhi India
If any time you wish to be unsubscribed from our Mailing List, please send a
message to
sayeveryth...@sayeverything.org
with the subject unsubscribe keeping the message body blank.
To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please
visit the list home page at
http://sayeverything.org/mailman/listinfo/sayeverything_sayeverything.org
Website: http://www.sayeverything.org
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