Webster and Cherry

100 views
Skip to first unread message

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 9:46:35 PM9/16/18
to West Newton Community
Another accident today at Cherry and Webster. This time the car flipped onto its side. Based on the police data this intersection is in the top two for most accidents in all of Newton. Given that the posted speed limit is low and the intersection is next to the police station it is rather incredible that so many accidents have occurred.

What does it take to become a priority for the city?

Thanks

Ben

Mike Ciolino

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 10:03:31 PM9/16/18
to ben...@aol.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Ben, I know that intersection well - What do you mean What does it take to become a priority for the city?  The intersection seems to be very reasonable to me. 4-way intersection with a straight forward traffic signal. No obstructions, narrow streets reduce the ability to speed through.

I don't understand the mentality that because an intersection is in the top two for most accidents in all of Newton, that the city is obliged to take some action.

Some intersection somewhere in the city will always be at the top for most accidents in all of Newton. If there is a glaring reason for this that can be fixed I'm all for it - but as you said it is rather incredible.


---


--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/ddb6b32d-a9f0-4009-9744-ef3f56caac73%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Eileen Sandberg

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 10:29:24 PM9/16/18
to mi...@verveboston.com, ben...@aol.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
One option would be a real traffic light, not the current four way stop- but if someone was going fast enough for a car to land on its side, not sure how you control for that.  Another factor may be the narrow width of the street when cars are parked on Webster.  

Tricia Amend Bombara

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 10:35:58 PM9/16/18
to easan...@aol.com, ben...@aol.com, mi...@verveboston.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Cherry & Webster IS a full traffic light. (Elm & Webster is a blinking 4-way stop.) But drivers run the red light frequently.

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 10:35:59 PM9/16/18
to mi...@verveboston.com, ben...@aol.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com

West Newton Square rehab is due to go out to contractor bid shortly, for work beginning next year. This project will change the signal at Washington and Cherry, including lensing the signal as some people have suggested.

I hope to have a look at the crash reports and talk with the police to see if there is any commonality in the incidents.

-Mike
Chair, Newton Transportation Advisory Group.


From: Mike Ciolino <mi...@verveboston.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 10:02 PM
To: ben...@aol.com
Cc: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [WNewton] Webster and Cherry

dorfm...@comcast.net

unread,
Sep 16, 2018, 10:52:41 PM9/16/18
to " westnewtonneighborhood@googlegroups.com "
It is a full traffic light, not a four way stop (that is the next block over.)

I can’t think of why so many accidents happen there or what could be changed. Is there an explanation for the unusually high number of accidents and suggestions of what could be changed?

Ann
Dorfm...@comcast.net

Sent from Xfinity Connect App



------ Original Message ------


From:  westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com  
To: mi...@verveboston.com
Cc: ben...@aol.com,  westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com  
Sent: September 16, 2018 at 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WNewton] Webster and Cherry

One option would be a real traffic light, not the current four way stop- but if someone was going fast enough for a car to land on its side, not sure how you control for that.  Another factor may be the narrow width of the street when cars are parked on Webster.  



On Sep 16, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Mike Ciolino <mi...@verveboston.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/882380E3-D682-4639-A848-D26796B9924D%40aol.com.

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 9:54:36 PM9/17/18
to West Newton Community

Mike, what I mean is that clearly this intersection is a problem and the City has resources at its disposal to work on problems, but resources are limited and therefore prioritized.  At this point, the Webster/Cherry intersection is not a priority which is why I posed the question, “what does it take to become a priority for the City?”


I can understand why one might question where and how the lines are drawn in terms of a City’s obligation to take action upon a problematic issue as well as the fact that there is going to be a worst and second worst in many situations. I can even appreciate that some problems can’t easily be solved and may not even be worth solving at all.   That said, when it comes to a public safety issue that is glaringly problematic and out of character from what would seem to be the norm the mentality behind a request for an investigation/solution seems rather logical and appropriate.  


Although the causes may not be obvious there is clearly something going on at this intersection evidenced by the fact that the number of accidents is much larger than what one would expect given the nature of the intersection.   If you look at the intersections where the most accidents occur there are very obvious reasons.  As an example, the intersection of Centre St and Washington St otherwise known as “the circle of death” is extremely busy, extremely confusing, and requires drivers to cut across multiple lanes in a short period of time.  If anyone has tried to take a left coming off of Albemarle onto Crafts Street it would be clear as to why there are a lot of accidents (no lights).  I think these hotspots are quite different than the Cherry/Webster intersection which appears to be straight forward with single lanes, low speed limits, seemingly unobstructed views and working lights.  The intersection that you described should be reasonably safe and yet it is the second worst intersection in Newton.  I find it incredible (not believable) that the accidents are an anomaly (unlike a driver going the speed limit on Webster St which is truly an anomaly) and that is why I think the City has an obligation to assess the situation, and if possible provide solutions/fixes.  It is quite possible it is second worse for a reason rather than chance.     It seems reasonable to believe that public safety is an obligation of the City and this intersection is not safe.  It would be better to fix the problem before something truly awful happens. Given the number of accidents thus far it would be incredible (not believable) if a more serious accident does not occur.   In this case, second worst should be the impetus for assessment and improvement rather than a position or state of being that should be blindly accepted. 

 

I believe that this intersection is not a priority for the City.    I understand that resources are limited and thus far have been deployed elsewhere for good reasons I am sure (although it does appear that the only place more deserving is the circle of death purely based on numbers).  I also believe that in the City of Newton there is at least one working radar gun, one working sign that posts a car’s speed and one officer that provides traffic control.  The City has a traffic council which looks at traffic problems which I suspect is also limited in its resources and therefore makes choices as to which problems to solve as best as they can.   If I am correct in these assumptions then it comes down to “prioritizing” and so far this intersection does not seem to be a high priority. In ten years I have neither seen any form of traffic control at that intersection nor have I heard of any assessment of the intersection by the City and so that is why I asked, “what does it take to become a priority for the City?”


I am biased in my opinions because I live on Webster St and walk/drive through the intersection every day.  My daughter is 8 and has been witness to three accidents (in this year alone) the most recent involved a car rolling over which she watched start to finish.  I do believe that my personal bias does not take away from the fact that a lot of accidents occur at an intersection that should be a lot safer. You may not agree with my mentality, my belief in what is or what isn’t an obligation of the City, that second worst is not OK when it comes to safety, however what is not debatable is the fact that the intersection at Webster and Cherry should not have this many accidents. 


There have been a number of interesting theories as to why the intersection is so bad. Since you know the intersection well I am surprised that you have not noticed the excessive speeds on both Cherry and Webster St, the obstructed traffic light on your right as you drive down Cherry away from the square, and the intersections that are on the horizon that can draw the attention of drivers away from the lights at the Cherry/Webster St intersection.  I don’t know what the true cause is and maybe it is a combination of many factors, but at this point it appears there is a very real problem obvious or not that needs to be addressed.  


Someone mentioned that cars parked on the side of Webster might be exasperating the problem.  My experience is that the parked cars have been the best and only form of speed control on Webster St.  Cars parked on the side of the road narrow the driving space and in general cause cars to slow down in order to pass each other.   Many a side view mirror has been sacrificed in the name of safety. 


Thanks for reading!!


Ben

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:07:23 PM9/17/18
to ben...@aol.com, West Newton Community
Ben,

I have looked over the accident reports for the four most recent crashes and sent the picture of the flipped car posted on Facebook to Transportation. Jason Sobel from Transportation got the police report from NPD.  There are similarities between the most recent crash and one of the other crashes, while the other two at first pass seem different (involving vehicles on Webster, not Cherry).  

I will follow up with Transportation and NPD.  I am not an transportation professional, but I hope we can learn more from the city departments about details that might not be in the crash reports.

Thanks.
--Mike



-- 
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.

René Milet

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:09:22 PM9/17/18
to ben...@aol.com, West Newton Community
What I find incredible is the severity of the latest crash.  The car flipped on its side ?  That’s the kind of thing you’d expect on the Mass Pike, not the backroads of West Newton.  At the risk of idle speculation, it makes me wonder about the circumstances.  Sounds like the aftermath of a high speed chase or something of the sort. 
--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

René Milet Hernández       
12 Stoneleigh Road    /    West Newton, MA 02465   




Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:15:58 PM9/17/18
to rene...@fastmail.fm, ben...@aol.com, West Newton Community
That would be in fact unfounded speculation. The preliminary police report says the southbound Cherry St driver ran the light.

While the crash looks severe, note that there were no injuries reported.

--Mike



René Milet

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:19:44 PM9/17/18
to Michael Halle, ben...@aol.com, West Newton Community
Thank you for the clarification Mike.  Glad to have my half-baked musing put in its place.  

Noa Rensing

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:32:46 PM9/17/18
to Rene, M H, ben...@aol.com, West Newton Community
Keep in mind that many modern vehicles have a high center of mass and aren't stable.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/1537237182.1489109.1511586768.6CCA82A9%40webmail.messagingengine.com.

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:34:11 PM9/17/18
to rene...@fastmail.fm, West Newton Community
No problem René -- let's get as much information as we can and work on fixing the problem!

--Mike

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 10:40:04 PM9/17/18
to Noa Rensing, West Newton Community
Crash reports lists the vehicles as a 2015 Jeep (no model noted) and a 2017 Subaru "station wagon".  

Both drivers have local home addresses (between pike and the river), so I would expect them to be familiar with the area.

--Mike

dorfm...@comcast.net

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 11:03:28 PM9/17/18
to " westnewtonneighborhood@googlegroups.com "
Hi Ben,

Where can we find the information on most dangerous intersections in newton? In a quick google search I was only able to locate these two sources of information, but Webster/Cherry is not included in either.

http://gis.massdot.state.ma.us/maptemplate/topcrashlocations/

2015 wicked local
https://www.google.com/amp/newton.wickedlocal.com/article/20151124/NEWS/151128048%3ftemplate=ampart

I remember an accident at that intersection a number of years ago, can’t remember if it involved a fatality, where the car ended up against the stone wall in front of Horace man.

Ann
Dorfm...@comcast.net

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 11:07:24 PM9/17/18
to West Newton Community
Here is the link.

http://www.newtonpolice.com/public.htm

Ben

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 11:08:38 PM9/17/18
to dorfm...@comcast.net, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
http://www.newtonpolice.com/FTP/MVYTD.HTM

Note this is a work in progress.  Some crash reports include an address where the crash happened at an intersection, and some intersections are listed twice (A St/B St and also B St/A St).

--Mike


Julia Malakie

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 11:12:09 PM9/17/18
to West Newton Community
Do the reports indicate if drivers were given breathalyzer tests? The worst accident I've seen on Webster (taking out a utility pole and slamming into a tree at Westwood and Webster) appeared to involve midday drinking.

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 17, 2018, 11:14:34 PM9/17/18
to juliam...@gmail.com, West Newton Community
No note of drugs or alcohol in the reports for any of the crashes from 7/2 until this week.

--Mike

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:12 PM, Julia Malakie <juliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do the reports indicate if drivers were given breathalyzer tests? The worst accident I've seen on Webster (taking out a utility pole and slamming into a tree at Westwood and Webster) appeared to involve midday drinking.
>
> --
> If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.

Tim Caputo

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 12:20:26 PM9/18/18
to m...@halle.us, juliam...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I was wondering why there are so many accidents at this intersection as well, so I decided to take a look with the idea that there must be something happening.  

What struck me was how prominent the light for Washington and Cherry is as you approach Webster and Cherry.  In fact, it's really the first light I noticed.


image.png

With your eyes focused on the light in the middle of the street, the actual signal switches (possibly without being noticed).  This is probably exacerbated by distracted drivers, but it seems like a really bad design.

image.png

image.png

-Tim


 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/B0F70BFF-B4C3-458B-B805-73C4019953AC%40halle.us.

dorfm...@comcast.net

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 1:51:23 PM9/18/18
to m...@halle.us, timothy...@gmail.com, juliam...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I noticed that today too, I think Ben and others mentioned something about that earlier.

I have asked the planning  department  multiple times why this light is not included in the Washington st/West newton redesign and have never gotten a good explanation other than it’s not.  

I think someone on this listserve mentioned that the redesign will provide shading of the Washington st light so it is not visible from such a distance, another option would be to include the Webster st light and synchronize it so they are both red at the same time (not sure how this would impact traffic flow). Including this light in the redesign plan would at least provide opportunity to replace with new model that is more visible and able to be adjusted.

In light of the significant number of accidents at this intersection, i ask our city councilors to look into getting this light included in the redesign plan.

Ann
Dorfm...@comcast.net




------ Original Message ------

From: Tim Caputo
To: m...@halle.us
Cc: juliam...@gmail.com,  westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com  
Sent: September 18, 2018 at 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WNewton] Webster and Cherry

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAERwps%2BzvMwdMt2fMUw-UH_xY4wo4z%3DvGgqJ32ZVCS0j24tUmw%40mail.gmail.com.

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 2:22:54 PM9/18/18
to West Newton Community
Hi Ann:

I suspect the reason why you have not received a good explanation is that fixing potential issues relating to the Cherry/Webster intersection is not a priority yet.  I think it could be a priority if enough citizens bring it to the attention of the City or a more serious accident occurs in the future.  I am hoping for the former but that will probably require a critical mass of concerned and vocal residents. 

Ben
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Brian Scheff

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 3:35:06 PM9/18/18
to dorfm...@comcast.net, m...@halle.us, timothy...@gmail.com, juliam...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Tim,

Those were excellent photos!  I think you’ve hit the nail precisely on the head.  I live at the intersection, so I’ve not only seen some of the accidents and many near accidents, but I drive through the intersection daily. 

I to have asked about including the intersection in the planning, and I’ve gotten the same answer as Ann. I also asked 15 or so years ago when the Washington St. lights were last redesigned and got the same answer. It’s not only a safety issue, but also the Washington Street light causes gridlock at the Webster St. intersection every morning. 

When heading South on Cherry, I think the Webster St. lights, which are on poles at the corners, are intermittently obstructed by trees, while the Washington St. light is suspended in the middle of the Street, and consistently visible from quite a distance. I absolutely don’t want any trees taken down, but why not suspend the Webster St. light the same way as the Washington St. one?  If there are a few particularly obstructing branches, trim them back. 

Also, I noticed in the photos how the, except for the crosswalk markings, the intersection itself is almost invisible. Contrasted against the end of the road one block later, and it’s not surprising that some distracted drivers might be caught off guard. Why not add “intersection ahead” warning signs or something to give drivers an extra heads up?  

I think the solution is to make the Washington St. light less noticeable from a distance, and make the Webster St. light and intersection more noticeable. Also, anything that slows southbound Cherry St. traffic would be helpful, I’m sure.

Best. 

Brian Scheff
413 Cherry St. 

Sent from my iPhone

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 4:03:10 PM9/18/18
to Brian Scheff, timothy...@gmail.com, West Newton Community
Brian and Tim,

Thanks for the observations.  They echo what some people here suggested after one of the crashes in the summer.

Transportation is already looking at these issues.  As I've said, the light at Washington and Cherry will be replaced and the new signal will have lensed lights that won't be visible from a distance.

While I think the visibility of the Webster and Cherry light can possibly be improved, I think additional signage isn't likely to be helpful.
If you don't notice an intersection with four crosswalks and two traffic lights, an "intersection ahead" sign off to the side of the road under some trees isn't likely to attract your attention either.

I would also note that the driver involved in the latest crash lives in the area.  The previous driver who ran the light was relatively inexperienced. And thousands of drivers manage to successfully see and obey the traffic signal every day.  What seems like a pattern could be a sign of something else (e.g., speeds on Webster?  visibility? bad Newton drivers?), or nothing specific.

I will let you know when I hear something from Transportation.

--Mike



With your eyes focused on the light in the middle of the street, the actual signal switches (possibly without being noticed).  This is probably exacerbated by distracted drivers, but it seems like a really bad design.





-Tim


 

Tim Caputo

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 4:44:45 PM9/18/18
to M H, br...@discoveryschoolhouse.org, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Hi Mike,

I think the pattern points to something specific about the intersection.  I agree additional signage seems like a band-aid for the fact that the Washington Street light is in the direct sight line of drivers.  Why not hang a light in the middle of the intersection (like pretty much all the other intersections in the Newton). Put it there and you won't see the light that many suspect is causing the confusion.

In my opinion waiting for a fix at Washington is asking for trouble.

-Tim




Brian Scheff

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 5:25:26 PM9/18/18
to Michael Halle, timothy...@gmail.com, West Newton Community
Anything that makes the Webster intersection stand out from the Washington intersection would help. I’m sure that lensing the Washington light and moving the Webster Light to the middle would help a lot. Thousands of drivers do successfully go through the intersection every day, but you don’t have to observe the intersection much to see people running the light and some near misses every single day as well. There’s something that makes this intersection more likely to have an accident than most, and we should figure out what it is and fix it.

I, myself, have almost run the light when heading south on cherry street more than once, and I live right there and consider it one of the more dangerous intersections I drive through daily. When this has happened, I think it was because I was somehow seeing that Washington Street light instead. If I can almost do this, it’s not surprising to me that other do also. I’m sure the worst of it has to do with distracted driving, speeding, and trying to “make the light,” but the question remains, why this intersection more than most?

Brian Scheff
Discovery Schoolhouse, Inc.

Sent from my iPhone

Eyal Dechter

unread,
Sep 18, 2018, 8:23:18 PM9/18/18
to br...@discoveryschoolhouse.org, m...@halle.us, timothy...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
As I mentioned in a post earlier this summer on this issue, I had a near miss when I accidentally ran this light going south on cherry. I remember noticing at the time that I was looking at the Washington street light instead of the Webster street lights.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/B4508186-49AC-4643-8B25-C0386AD6BD3B%40discoveryschoolhouse.org.

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 8:39:43 AM9/19/18
to West Newton Community
It sounds like a number of people who live in the area have experienced similar visual/peception problems.  A neighbor related a similar story to me as well.  If any conclusions are made regarding the impact of where drivers lived it might make sense to evaluate where drivers lived who were involved in accidents in the other Newton high accident intersections.  One theory as to why a majority of accidents occur close to home is that drivers tend to relax and let the guard down as they get closer to home.

Mike, could you explain the process that Transportation conducts when looking into an issue?  Are the accident reports public information and if so, how does one obtain them?  Also, how do the police deterine if speed is a factor?  Sorry for the numerous questions but inquiering minds want to know? 

Thanks for your help!!!

Ben 
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAERwps%2BzvMwdMt2fMUw-UH_xY4wo4z%3DvGgqJ32ZVCS0j24tUmw%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Noa Rensing

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 9:13:07 AM9/19/18
to ben...@aol.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
In a way it doesn't matter which drivers are being distracted and why. Some distractions will happen and inexperienced drivers will drive by, and interesections and public roadways should be designed to mitigate the risk, not exacerbate it. Clearly, this intersection is worse than average, and the questions of how this can be ameliorated and whether it's appropriately prioritize are exactly the ones that should be considered. There have been some very practical, actionable issues brought up: the lights a block apart, traffic restrictions elsewhere that force extra traffic through this intersection, and parking that creates chokepoints/backups (although the last may be a benefit rather than a problem). My understanding is that some of this will be addressed as part of the West Newton reconfiguration, but it's reasonable to ask the city if anything can be done sooner, even if it's  temporary.

Noa

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAERwps%2BzvMwdMt2fMUw-UH_xY4wo4z%3DvGgqJ32ZVCS0j24tUmw%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/341b0650-6dda-4786-8e58-8467077ad4da%40googlegroups.com.

Michael Halle

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 9:16:12 AM9/19/18
to Noa Rensing, Ben, West Newton Community
Noa, well put! And that's in fact what's happening. I will update the group if I hear anything. Everyone should also feel free to talk to their City Councilors.

-Mike

ben...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 9:24:51 AM9/19/18
to West Newton Community
A letter was sent yesterday to the Mayor and Councilors

Ben
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAERwps%2BzvMwdMt2fMUw-UH_xY4wo4z%3DvGgqJ32ZVCS0j24tUmw%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

rogerp...@gmail.com

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 10:33:40 AM9/19/18
to West Newton Community
That is some good detective work Tim. Another reason for the Washington GREEN light being more noticeable than the Webster RED light is because blue light sort of gets "seared" into our eyes. Green is alot closer to blue than the color red on the color light spectrum. There's a reason why the military uses red colored flashlights in the dark to read maps and such, it won't leave their eyes with a "ghost image" when the light shuts off. Red preserves night vision.


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 12:20:26 PM UTC-4, Tim Caputo wrote:
I was wondering why there are so many accidents at this intersection as well, so I decided to take a look with the idea that there must be something happening.  

What struck me was how prominent the light for Washington and Cherry is as you approach Webster and Cherry.  In fact, it's really the first light I noticed.


image.png

With your eyes focused on the light in the middle of the street, the actual signal switches (possibly without being noticed).  This is probably exacerbated by distracted drivers, but it seems like a really bad design.

image.png

image.png

-Tim


 

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:14 PM Michael Halle <m...@halle.us> wrote:
No note of drugs or alcohol in the reports for any of the crashes from 7/2 until this week.

--Mike

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:12 PM, Julia Malakie <juliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do the reports indicate if drivers were given breathalyzer tests? The worst accident I've seen on Webster (taking out a utility pole and slamming into a tree at Westwood and Webster) appeared to involve midday drinking.
>
> --
> If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighborhood+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Paul Kilduff

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 12:42:13 PM9/19/18
to rogerp...@gmail.com, West Newton Community
For the life of me I am having a difficult time agreeing with any issues concerning that intersection. I drive-thru that intersection daily at least two or three times. I have never had an issue so I don't understand what everybody is seeing in front of them. I'm not saying anybody is at fault but if you concentrate on what you're doing by not being on the phone or texting there shouldn't be an issue. Maybe a four-way stop sign would solve the issue about the lights. If it is just somebody speeding that can't be helped. They're always going to be accidents at intersections that is just a fact. Honestly I feel if everybody would drive the way they are supposed to it wouldn't be an issue. Anytime I see a traffic light I proceed with caution looking both ways even when it is green, but that's just me.

Paul Kilduff, District Coordinator APWU  857 303 2029

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 7:33 AM <rogerp...@gmail.com> wrote:
That is some good detective work Tim. Another reason for the Washington GREEN light being more noticeable than the Webster RED light is because blue light sort of gets "seared" into our eyes. Green is alot closer to blue than the color red on the color light spectrum. There's a reason why the military uses red colored flashlights in the dark to read maps and such, it won't leave their eyes with a "ghost image" when the light shuts off. Red preserves night vision.


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 12:20:26 PM UTC-4, Tim Caputo wrote:
I was wondering why there are so many accidents at this intersection as well, so I decided to take a look with the idea that there must be something happening.  

What struck me was how prominent the light for Washington and Cherry is as you approach Webster and Cherry.  In fact, it's really the first light I noticed.


image.png

With your eyes focused on the light in the middle of the street, the actual signal switches (possibly without being noticed).  This is probably exacerbated by distracted drivers, but it seems like a really bad design.

image.png

image.png

-Tim


 

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:14 PM Michael Halle <m...@halle.us> wrote:
No note of drugs or alcohol in the reports for any of the crashes from 7/2 until this week.

--Mike

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:12 PM, Julia Malakie <juliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do the reports indicate if drivers were given breathalyzer tests? The worst accident I've seen on Webster (taking out a utility pole and slamming into a tree at Westwood and Webster) appeared to involve midday drinking.
>
> --
> If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/9fea9d09-08cd-4dd5-8271-60508e964096%40googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/westnewtonneighborhood.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/0558017a-1f49-40f1-8d8d-3c1a6aa13723%40googlegroups.com.

James Cote

unread,
Sep 19, 2018, 10:19:22 PM9/19/18
to Paul Kilduff, West Newton Community
HI Paul,
I agree with you on the point that we cannot cover every contingency, especially given that the city wide speed limit is now 25 MPH, given that there are a lot of people looking at this item.  This is a credit to everyone that followed up with ideas, photos, and suggestions, and please know that your West Newton City Councilors are closely tuned into this and working with the appropriate City officials.
Thank you.
Jim

James Cote
Councilor at Large, Ward 3
City of Newton, Massachusetts

“I never had a policy; I have just tried to do my very best each and every day.” – Abraham Lincoln



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CADpQ8J%2Bmn6i7tZCAzyn6%3D6Y8AkM3YZwKHfqVU47NjiDzOSxV3A%40mail.gmail.com.

Julia Malakie

unread,
Sep 20, 2018, 10:15:48 AM9/20/18
to West Newton Community
I've been out of town, so my first opportunity to drive southbound on Cherry with this issue in mind happened to be last night. It sounds like a lot of these crashes may be in daytime (?), but what I noticed was the same thing you can see in Tim's series of daytime photos -- while the left side traffic light at the intersection is visible for awhile, though not as noticeable as the distant one, the right side light is hidden behind that utility pole until just before you reach the intersection.
I was wondering if any lower limbs of trees needed to be pruned, but that does not appear to be an issue; the canopy seems adequately high.
I agree a hanging center light would be the best solution, but in the meantime, Jim and Mike, could the intersection be painted to make it more noticeable?
Something like the big white X-box at Chestnut and Fuller (or other intersections for "don't block the box")? Or solid yellow in the whole intersection, so it's prominent in winter?
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages