Re: [DDNA] Hillsborough Street and the Beltline
Betsy Kane
On Monday, August 21, 2017, Ted Van Dyk <T...@newcitydesign.com> wrote:
--All,
I saw a letter to the editor last week that suggested that we close the Hillsborough Street exits rather than eat 40 acres + of land to expand them.
I think this is well worth considering. We have spent, between Phase 1 and 2, nearly 30 million on narrowing and slowing Hillsborough Street specifically to eliminate it as a through route and enhance bike and pedestrian friendliness. Do we really need or want a beltline exchange on the street? Think of the bike and pedestrian connections between Campus and the Fairgrounds, Carter Finley, PNC, etc. we could make if there were no beltline entries or exits on Hillsborough!
It this project goes forward as currently designed, it will be virtually impossible to cross there by bike or on foot- the opposite of what we want.
So consider: with Wade avenue and Western so close, and the extensive damage to Meredith College and the University Club shown on these maps, all for a bit more ease of traffic flow, I think it is a serious question, and well worth asking. This is land that we will never get back once it is under an interstate.
Looking back at the DOT report, this widening was originally designed in the 1990’s, and slated for the early 2000’s, but couldn’t find funding.
Maybe , just maybe, it is time to take a new look at the assumptions from the 90’s? Are traffic assumptions still solid, given the advent of Uber, self driving cars, a re-urbanizing population, and declining per capita driving miles nationally?
And, crazy thought, could we bring the cost down? On a DOT project?
What think ye, YIMBY’s? Anyone in tight with the DOT?
FYI, links to current plans are here:
· Alternative Map 7a of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (flyover) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7b of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (two flyovers) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7c of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (slight detour) (12 MB)
Best,
Ted Van Dyk, AIA
principal | new city design group
t: 919 831 1308 x 114 | w: www.newcitydesign.com | e: t...@newcitydesign.com
From: dd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:dd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Will Allen III
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 6:48 PM
To: camer...@yahoogroups.com; cameronvillage@googlegroups.com; dd...@googlegroups.com; Glenwood South Neighborhood Collaborative <GlenwoodSouth@downtownraleigh.org>; Hillsborough CAC listserv <hill...@googlegroups.com>; Pulle...@yahoogroups.com; PULLENPARKNEIGHBORHOOD@yahoogroups.com; pullenparkterrace@googlegroups.com; upha-discussion@yahoogroups.com; westmorganneighborhood@googlegroups.com; raleig...@googlegroups.com; BRCAl...@googlegroups.com; 'Jeff Murison' <je...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; Will Gaskins <wi...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; 'Milazzo II, Joe' <J...@letsgetmoving.org>
Subject: [DDNA] Public hearing for I-440 Widening Project - Tue, Aug 8, McKimmon Center
Neighbors,
Please be aware that the final public hearing for the I-440 widening project will take place this coming Tuesday, August 8 at the NCSU McKimmon Center (1101 Gorman St.) on this schedule:
4:00-6:30 PM – Pre-hearing Open House – browse maps and materials explaining the project
7:00 PM – Hearing begins with a formal presentation
More information on the project can be found here: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440improvements/
Possibly of special interest are the planned changes to the I-440 intersections at Western Boulevard and at Wade Avenue.
WESTERN BLVD “DIVERGING DIAMOND INTERCHANGE”
Western will have what’s called a “diverging diamond interchange” (DDI) or a “double crossover diamond interchange” (DCD) that involves traffic lanes crossing each other, directing traffic to drive on the left temporarily (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange).
Here is the one planned for Western:
The new interchange will have 6 lanes on Western. The additional lane in each direction (from the current four to six) will aid in transit vehicle flow in this section of the Raleigh-Cary BRT corridor planned along Western Blvd.
WADE AVENUE INTERSECTION – 3 ALTERNATIVES
All three of the I-440/Wade Ave intersection options involve complex new flyovers and advance lanes. The three options can be accessed here:
· Alternative Map 7a of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (flyover) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7b of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (two flyovers) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7c of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (slight detour) (12 MB)
All three options show an additional stoplight on Wade that may impact eastbound traffic flowing into Raleigh.
However, the potential delay caused by the new light is to be mitigated by directing traffic headed north on the beltline onto a separate flyover that begins west of the current intersction, a design that is forecast to alleviate the peak period backups at the current Wade-440 intersection. The “flyover,” “Two flyovers,” and “slight detour” options above show detail of the new traffic flows.
Hope to see you there next Tuesday afternoon.
Will
William A. Allen III
919-349-6566 Mobile
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Betsy Kane
On Wednesday, August 30, 2017, Ted Van Dyk <T...@newcitydesign.com> wrote:
I am hoping we can get some input from influences outside of the DOT- their charge, of course, is to make traffic flow. There are other very legitimate perspectives and values that should also be accounted for here. So far, it is just traffic engineering. I don’t disparage traffic engineering, but ti works from a single set of assumptions and metrics to determine success.
Hopefully the comment period will yield enough push back that the DOT will agree to a more extensive stakeholder outreach, and some additional work prior to pressing on.
I believe the comment period is still open- the poll, and other information about the project, can be accessed, I believe, at this site:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440improvements/
From: Joel Rosch, Ph.D. [mailto:jbrr...@duke.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 1:35 PM
To: Stuart Levin <slev...@gmail.com>
Cc: Sig Hutchinson <S...@sighutchinson.com>; wi...@allenheuer.com; Ted Van Dyk <T...@newcitydesign.com>; camer...@yahoogroups.com; cameronvillage@googlegroups.com; dd...@googlegroups.com; Glenwood South Neighborhood Collaborative <GlenwoodSouth@downtownraleigh.org>; Hillsborough CAC listserv <hill...@googlegroups.com>; Pulle...@yahoogroups.com; PULLENPARKNEIGHBORHOOD@yahoogroups.com; pullenparkterrace@googlegroups.com; upha-discussion@yahoogroups.com; westmorganneighborhood@googlegroups.com; raleig...@googlegroups.com; BRCAl...@googlegroups.com; Jeff Murison <je...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; Will Gaskins <wi...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; Milazzo II, Joe <J...@letsgetmoving.org>; Crowder, Kay <Kay.C...@raleighnc.gov>
Subject: Re: [Blue Ridge Corridor Alliance] RE: Hillsborough Street and the Beltline
I also like idea of eliminating Hillsborough interchange. Vet school and other places still quite accessible esp if wade is done right
I've heard from traffic engineers in the past that the H intersection is not far enough from others to be safe. Nobody would design it that way today.
I for one do not care about bikes etc. but if savings can improve safety in other places this seems like a great idea.
For better or worse the city is doing its best to get traffic off h, so why put an interchange just because there has been one there in the past
We usually call this the sunk cost fallacy
Now people will go nuts if we do this, but it is the right thing to do, assuming we do wade properly
My two cents
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 23, 2017, at 7:15 AM, Stuart Levin <slev...@gmail.com> wrote:Sig-
I agree that it would be unfortunate if the I-440 expansion does not incorporate improved multi-modal options along Hillsborough and the benefit of integrating land-use and transportation.
This vision has been integral to the Blue Ridge Corridor Alliance. Of note the RFP for the I-440 project also includes the Hillsborough-Blue Ridge grade separation
http://www.cssnationaldialog.org/2/documents/Raleigh/Fact-Sheet-Blue-Ridge-Road-Grade-Separation.pdf
specifically designed with alterations to support these components which came about thru public comments. I would therefore encourage folks who have thoughts on the design to participate in the public comment process.
Thanks-All the best-Stuart
Stuart Levin
president, Blue Ridge Corridor Alliance
3100 Blue Ridge Rd #100
Raleigh, NC 27612
stuart@brcalliance.org
919-781-7500 x1262
919-830-4652 (cell)
<image002.jpg>
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Sig Hutchinson <S...@sighutchinson.com> wrote:
I like this idea. It seems to make a lot of sense to me. We tend to think that the solution is always more roads and interchanges when clearly we have seen that is not the case. In this case, more bike/ped friendly condition along Hillsborough could be just what the street ultimately needs. For land use and transportation. I would definitely support more consideration for the idea.
Sig
From: brcal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:brcalliance@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Will Allen III
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:33 AM
To: 'Ted Van Dyk' <T...@newcitydesign.com>; wi...@allenheuer.com; camer...@yahoogroups.com; cameronvillage@googlegroups.com; dd...@googlegroups.com; 'Glenwood South Neighborhood Collaborative' <GlenwoodSouth@downtownraleigh.org>; 'Hillsborough CAC listserv' <hill...@googlegroups.com>; Pulle...@yahoogroups.com; PULLENPARKNEIGHBORHOOD@yahoogroups.com; pullenparkterrace@googlegroups.com; upha-discussion@yahoogroups.com; westmorganneighborhood@googlegroups.com; raleig...@googlegroups.com; BRCAl...@googlegroups.com; 'Jeff Murison' <je...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; 'Will Gaskins' <wi...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; 'Milazzo II, Joe' <J...@letsgetmoving.org>; 'Crowder, Kay' <Kay.C...@raleighnc.gov>; Stuart Levin <slev...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Blue Ridge Corridor Alliance] RE: Hillsborough Street and the Beltline
Ted,
Unfortunately, it is my understanding that the STI law that governs how N.C. transportation dollars are spent does not work so that money for roadway projects could be used instead for greenways.
We also need to be mindful of the impacts of eliminating the Hillsborough interchange would have on the future expansion of the NCSU Vet School and on the NC State Fairgrounds area. Taking this interchange out of the mix would put serious pressure on Wade and Blue Ridge.
And a staff official at the NCDOT open house and hearing at McKimmon Center—I didn’t get his name—told me that removing the Hillsborough interchange from the mix still wouldn’t alleviate the complexity of a new Wade Avenue interchange.
Your ideas appeal to me, too, as do others that followed your post. Just saying that the “law of unintended consequence” is always at work. As the Chair of the Blue Ridge Corridor Alliance Transportation Committee and a member of the Hillsborough Street Community Services Corporation Parking & Transportation Committee, I am trying to think of all the vectors in play here. Seems to me there is no perfect solution.
From: raleig...@googlegroups.com [mailto:raleighyimby@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ted Van Dyk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 3:42 PM
To: wi...@allenheuer.com; camer...@yahoogroups.com; cameronvillage@googlegroups.com; dd...@googlegroups.com; Glenwood South Neighborhood Collaborative <GlenwoodSouth@downtownraleigh.org>; Hillsborough CAC listserv <hill...@googlegroups.com>; Pulle...@yahoogroups.com; PULLENPARKNEIGHBORHOOD@yahoogroups.com; pullenparkterrace@googlegroups.com; upha-discussion@yahoogroups.com; westmorganneighborhood@googlegroups.com; raleig...@googlegroups.com; BRCAl...@googlegroups.com; 'Jeff Murison' <je...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; Will Gaskins <wi...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; 'Milazzo II, Joe' <J...@letsgetmoving.org>; Crowder, Kay <Kay.C...@raleighnc.gov>
Subject: Hillsborough Street and the Beltline
All,
I saw a letter to the editor last week that suggested that we close the Hillsborough Street exits rather than eat 40 acres + of land to expand them.
I think this is well worth considering. We have spent, between Phase 1 and 2, nearly 30 million on narrowing and slowing Hillsborough Street specifically to eliminate it as a through route and enhance bike and pedestrian friendliness. Do we really need or want a beltline exchange on the street? Think of the bike and pedestrian connections between Campus and the Fairgrounds, Carter Finley, PNC, etc. we could make if there were no beltline entries or exits on Hillsborough!
It this project goes forward as currently designed, it will be virtually impossible to cross there by bike or on foot- the opposite of what we want.
So consider: with Wade avenue and Western so close, and the extensive damage to Meredith College and the University Club shown on these maps, all for a bit more ease of traffic flow, I think it is a serious question, and well worth asking. This is land that we will never get back once it is under an interstate.
Looking back at the DOT report, this widening was originally designed in the 1990’s, and slated for the early 2000’s, but couldn’t find funding.
Maybe , just maybe, it is time to take a new look at the assumptions from the 90’s? Are traffic assumptions still solid, given the advent of Uber, self driving cars, a re-urbanizing population, and declining per capita driving miles nationally?
And, crazy thought, could we bring the cost down? On a DOT project?
What think ye, YIMBY’s? Anyone in tight with the DOT?
FYI, links to current plans are here:
· Alternative Map 7a of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (flyover) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7b of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (two flyovers) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7c of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (slight detour) (12 MB)
Best,
<image001.jpg>
Ted Van Dyk, AIA
principal | new city design group
t: 919 831 1308 x 114 | w: www.newcitydesign.com | e: t...@newcitydesign.com
From: dd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:dd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Will Allen III
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 6:48 PM
To: camer...@yahoogroups.com; cameronvillage@googlegroups.com; dd...@googlegroups.com; Glenwood South Neighborhood Collaborative <GlenwoodSouth@downtownraleigh.org>; Hillsborough CAC listserv <hill...@googlegroups.com>; Pulle...@yahoogroups.com; PULLENPARKNEIGHBORHOOD@yahoogroups.com; pullenparkterrace@googlegroups.com; upha-discussion@yahoogroups.com; westmorganneighborhood@googlegroups.com; raleig...@googlegroups.com; BRCAl...@googlegroups.com; 'Jeff Murison' <je...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; Will Gaskins <wi...@hillsboroughstreet.org>; 'Milazzo II, Joe' <J...@letsgetmoving.org>
Subject: [DDNA] Public hearing for I-440 Widening Project - Tue, Aug 8, McKimmon Center
Neighbors,
Please be aware that the final public hearing for the I-440 widening project will take place this coming Tuesday, August 8 at the NCSU McKimmon Center (1101 Gorman St.) on this schedule:
4:00-6:30 PM – Pre-hearing Open House – browse maps and materials explaining the project
7:00 PM – Hearing begins with a formal presentation
More information on the project can be found here: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-440improvements/
Possibly of special interest are the planned changes to the I-440 intersections at Western Boulevard and at Wade Avenue.
WESTERN BLVD “DIVERGING DIAMOND INTERCHANGE”
Western will have what’s called a “diverging diamond interchange” (DDI) or a “double crossover diamond interchange” (DCD) that involves traffic lanes crossing each other, directing traffic to drive on the left temporarily (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange).
Here is the one planned for Western:
<image002.jpg>
The new interchange will have 6 lanes on Western. The additional lane in each direction (from the current four to six) will aid in transit vehicle flow in this section of the Raleigh-Cary BRT corridor planned along Western Blvd.
WADE AVENUE INTERSECTION – 3 ALTERNATIVES
All three of the I-440/Wade Ave intersection options involve complex new flyovers and advance lanes. The three options can be accessed here:
· Alternative Map 7a of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (flyover) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7b of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (two flyovers) (12 MB)
· Alternative Map 7c of 8: Hillsborough-Wade interchange (slight detour) (12 MB)
All three options show an additional stoplight on Wade that may impact eastbound traffic flowing into Raleigh.
However, the potential delay caused by the new light is to be mitigated by directing traffic headed north on the beltline onto a separate flyover that begins west of the current intersction, a design that is forecast to alleviate the peak period backups at the current Wade-440 intersection. The “flyover,” “Two flyovers,” and “slight detour” options above show detail of the new traffic flows.
Hope to see you there next Tuesday afternoon.
Will
William A. Allen III
919-349-6566 Mobile
--
--
DDNA meets on the 3rd Saturday of every month
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