Re: Lydia HOLLOWAY, wife of William WELLER - and BEER!

[Alister Rayner]

Dear Cousins,

It has been a while since anything has been discussed regarding Lydia Weller's ancestry (unless I've missed it!) However, I've uncovered some more information which may be of interest.

I have been researching the brewery and brewing in our past - of which more later, if you're interested (skip to the end if you're interested in beer but not family research!). Some of what follows you may already know, forgive me if that's the case. As Richard discovered in the will, George Holloway, father of Lydia Weller, nee Holloway (or Holloway Cook), described himself as George Holloway, Brewer of Two Waters, Hemel Hempstead, before his death in 1827. Was there a brewery in Two Waters? Had this run in the family?

Researching the brewing link I found that a George Holloway, Brewer of Hemel Hempstead, owned the Leather Bottle in Leverstock Green. Was this our George? I got in touch with Chris Reynolds at the Hertfordshire Genealogy site, who had already done some work on the Leather Bottle, and he dug up this article, which he has posted for us here:

 http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/links/HEMEL-BREWERY-1827.htm

It shows the contents of the auction held at Two Waters for George Holloway's estate in 1827. In it you will get an idea of the size of his brewery operation and farm, along with the five pubs he owned, the Leather Bottle, The Half Moon in Boxmoor, Hemel Hempstead, The Bull in Markyate, the Queens Head in Corner Hall, and the Red Lion in Nash Mill. (The conclusion to his article is slightly erroneous.)

There has been speculation that George's father was a chap called James Holloway, who married a Lydia Smith in Hemel Hempstead in 1759 (Lydia Weller's grandmother). Was James too a brewer? Actually no. It turns out that his wife Lydia was the daughter of Dr Hugh Smith of Hemel Hempstead, a very well known doctor and apothecary. In his will in 1784, Dr Smith gave his Brewhouse in Two Waters, along with Malting, Storehouse, Dwelling House, utensils and lands to his daughter Lydia Holloway, widow. He give his grandson George Holloway his pub the Red Lion. He gave the Sign of the Half Moon to one of his son-in-laws, and specified that the tenant of that pub may only stay on in his occupancy if he purchased his beer from the Brewhouse now belonging to Lydia Holloway. He gave a lot of other land to other offspring, but mostly to his son Hugh, who became an even more respected doctor in London, much published, and an alderman. (I can't yet prove the link, but there were Hugh Smiths in St Albans, but a few miles away, who were maltsters going back to the 1600's.)

George, Brewer of Hemel Hempstead, was also listed as one of the trustees of the Boxmoor land trust in 1809. Getting in touch with the Boxmoor trust, it turns out he was also listed on their Indenture of Feoffement in 1787 and 1797, where he was named as the owner of the Half Moon Meadow. In the Indenture of 1787 a James Holloway, Draper of Hemel Hempstead, was also mentioned. George's father?

James Holloway, Lace Merchant and Draper of Hemel Hempstead, died in 1783 (hence his wife Lydia was a widow when her father died a year later). In his will he gave his house and lands in Two Waters to his wife Lydia, and after her death to his son George, to whom he also gave some other pieces of land (note, Two Waters and Boxmoor are adjacent). He also gave some money in trust to each of his children, George, James and Sarah, who were all under the age of 21 at the time of his death (putting their birth dates between 1762 and 1783. George was actually born in 1764).

On the 28th July 1804, "At Hemel Hempstead, Herts, advanced in years, Mrs Lydia Holloway, daughter of the Late Dr. Hugh Smith, of that place, and sister of the late physician and alderman of that name in London [, died]."

Lydia bequeathed the whole brewing operation to George. Although the Half Moon had been given to his aunt and uncle, they either bequeathed it to him, or he'd bought it from them, prior to his death 1827. It should be noted that George named his nephew executor in his will, another Hugh Smith, the son of his sister Sarah, who had married a George Smith, Distiller of Aldersgate Street. This Hugh was charged with looking after the Brewery on behalf of George's three illegitimate children Lydia (later Weller), George (Rev.) and Sarah (later Statham). Based on the auction article, they must have collectively decided to sell up the estate in Two Waters immediately, and hence all three children, now fairly well off, were able to decamp to Amersham in 1827, the eldest, Sarah marrying Charles Statham in 1828.

The Queens Head in Corner Hall is interesting. George owned it as part of his tied estate on his death in 1827. However, a James Holloway, probably his younger brother, who only inherited cash and no land, was landlord there from 1817-1828. Another James Holloway, born 1821, perhaps his son, was landlord there as late as 1851. One of these two was done for Weights and Measures in 1840!

Hope this is all of interest!

Regards,

Alister

p.s. as I hinted at the beginning, I am investigating the possibility of re-creating one of the Weller beers, and having it produced by a real brewery, either for the family to consume, or perhaps as a (very small) foray into the commercial realm. Hence all the research into breweries. If any of the family is interested in joining me, participating in the project in any way, or just want to be kept abreast of developments, please respond to me directly (I think this email address should be reserved for genealogy topics, correct?). I'd love to form a team of Weller descendants to make a real go of this. Cheers!

p.p.s. this doesn't have to be a UK only project, for you ex-pats out there...

On 29 July 2011 at 13:14, Richard Weller <welle...@talktalk.net> wrote:

I have long been puzzled by the lack of information about Lydia
HOLLOWAY who married my great-grandfather William WELLER in Amersham
in 1839.  The space for her father's details is blank in the marriage
register.

In censuses Lydia consistently stated that she was born in Two Waters,
Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire about 1818.  At least three family
trees online state that she was baptised at St Mary's, Wimbledon on 21
Sep 1817.  I discounted this because Wimbledon is nowhere near Hemel
Hempstead and the date is too early.  Research showed that the
Wimbledon Lydia died in Jan 1819 aged 16 months.  (When I looked at
the said trees with a view to notifying their 'owners' of the error, I
also found that all three had my own mother as having died aged 78
several years before I was born!)

Further research (with help from Maddie of Lincoln, for which 'many
thanks') has solved the mystery.  The will of George HOLLOWAY, brewer,
of Two Waters, written 1821 and proved 1827 is explicit:

He left cottages and his household effects etc to "Eleanor COOK now
residing with me," and makes bequests to "my son or reputed son George
HOLLOWAY [and] my daughters or reputed daughters Sarah HOLLOWAY and
Lydia HOLLOWAY born out of the body of the said Eleanor COOK."

All three children - Lydia HOLLOWAY, George HOLLOWAY and Sarah
Holloway COOK - were baptised at Kings Langley on 27 Nov 1820,
children of Eleanor COOK, with no mention of father.

It is interesting to note that George, despite his illegitimacy,
became a C of E clergyman.

Richard

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[Malcolm Weller]

Hi Alister,

 

Sorry it has taken so long but your research was so interesting that I have added it to the Weller family tree web site;

http://www.weller.org.uk/cgi-bin/FamilyTree/ShowFamily.pl?ShowTree=Active&PersonID=1355&generations=4

I have also added much of it to a history page; http://www.weller.org.uk/cgi-bin/FamilyTree/ShowFamily.pl?ShowContent=28

 

Please let me know if I have made any mistakes or if you have any additions; text or pictures.

 

Thanks,

Mal.

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[Alister Rayner]

Super, thanks Mal.

It's a while since I posted that, but I'll check to see if I had any pictures from my research.

Alister

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[Jamie]

Alister,

Jamie Marshall here. My Grandmother was Janet Alison Mary Weller. AKA "Tootsie" b. 1903 Montreal Canada D. 1976

Tootsie's FATHER was William Weller B. 1880s Buckinghamshire, England D. 1948 Montreal, Canada

Charles Weller was Tootsie's Grandfather, and by design... Charles was the SON of both William and Lydia.

I'd like to talk to you further and compare notes if possible? It's been some years since I've been on this website, and quite frankly burned out on my Genealogy research...I had traced many branches- Not just Weller, and gotten into 1700s and 1600s on both sides with certainty...so it was time to take a break from the 3am reasearch, going to LDS, libraries, microfiche, etc... :)

To put things into perspective, William Weller b. 1727 Amersham Brewer is my 8th G. Grandfather.

I live in New Hampshire USA. My email is lowel...@yahoo.com and I can be found on Facebook under JAMES MARSHALL.

Looking forward to talking!

**open invitation should any other person have or need information specific to this Weller line. TY

[Jamie]

James (Jamie) Marshall here. I am the 3rd G. Grandson of William and Lydia.

I have discussed with a reputable craft brewery here in New Hampshire the possibility of brewing Weller Entire Ale and the head Malter is very open to the idea.

I had originally stopped by the brewery and restaurant to inquire about wine casks that were sitting outside for use in my bathroom redo...and got to taking, mentioning the family history of brewing, and directing him to the Weller website, which he found intriguing.

Upon follow up discussion, he had visited the website, and expressed an interest in reconstructing the beer.

This brewery is a legitimate brewery, not some backyard brewer...it caters to many thousands of visitors a year, as it is situated in a tourist area of the White Mountains of New Hampshire; which, due to its history, skiing, snowmobiling, outdoor recreation and world class mountain scenery and fall foliage, attracts millions of visitors yearly.

I noted that there was some interest in getting a brew going, and I'm in! I'd love to see a recreation of our family brew!

[David Weller]

Hi Jamie,

David Weller here. I am also a descendant of "William the brewer". My grandfather was born and raised in West Wycombe, Bucks. He immigrated to Canada then the US.

I am also interested in tasting the old beer recipe, but I live on the other side of the country from you. If your brewer actually brews some I wouldn't mind paying for some to be shipped here (Washington state).

Thanks for sending the information out.

Dave Weller

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[Jamie]

Damn, Dave! I just moved from Tacoma BACK to NH and inheritedvmy parents house here...wish I'd known! Which Weller are you descended from? I am a direct descendant from

6th: William (b.1727) and Anne House

5th: William (b.1764) and Sarah Lacey

4th: William (b.1797) and Lydia Holloway

3rd: Charles Weller (b.1849) & Janet Alison Cockburn

GGrands: William Weller (1880s) & Beatrice Harte

GANDPARENTS: Alex James Graham & my Grandmother
Janet Alison Mary Weller

My mother Joan Graham

Myself.

Are we cousins?

[David Weller]

Hi Jamie,

After going through the family tree numerous times, it seems that our trees separated 5 generations back. I've listed my tree in relation to yours below.

6th: William (b.1727) and Anne House

5th: William (b.1764) and Sarah Lacey        5th: Thomas Weller (1761) and Charlotte Morris

4th: William (b.1797) and Lydia Holloway     4th: Stephan Weller and Elizabeth Shackell

3rd: Charles Weller (b.1849) & Janet Alison Cockburn      3rd: Stephan Weller and Sarah Brion

GGrands: William Weller (1880s) & Beatrice Harte           GG: George Brion Weller and Mary Hughes

GRANDPARENTS:  Alex James Graham & my Grandmother    G: Harold Weller and Mildred Withers

Janet Alison Mary Weller

                                                                                  Parents: John Brion Weller and Pauline Crilly

Sooooooooooooo, we are related, I just don't know how to compute the relationship (cousins 6 times removed?)

I am currently living in Kent with my wife, son and daughter.

Dave

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[Malcolm Weller]

Hi Jamie and Dave,

 

Are either of you on the tree at; http://www.weller.org.uk/cgi-bin/FamilyTree/ShowFamily.pl ?

The following link shows the relationship between Alex James Graham and Harold Weller;

http://www.weller.org.uk/cgi-bin/FamilyTree/ShowFamily.pl?ShowRelationship=1&PersonID=233&PersonID2=607

The relationship is displayed in the top left of the page (so long as my calculations worked?).

It is rather a large tree between them so you will have to do lots of scrolling but the above named are marked with grey squares. You could search for the names.

 

Mal.

 

 

 

From: 'David Weller' via Weller Family [mailto:weller...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 07 March 2020 00:26
To: 'Jamie' via Weller Family <weller...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Lydia HOLLOWAY, wife of William WELLER - and BEER!

 

Hi Jamie,

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