Henry Weller 1704

[Andrew Weller]

Richard

In your thread on Thomas Weller (1632) you mentioned you had
information from the late Major Paul WELLER about the descendants of
Henry (1704).

I'm trying to confirm some information I have seen in other trees
which suggests Henry ("Harry") Weller (b1770 in Arundel) was his
grandson (born to Henry 1742 & Elizabeth 1748). I've been unable to
confirm the link bewteen the Sevenoaks Wellers and the Arundel Harry
in 1704. I'm descended from Harry.

If you have any information you could share, that would be really
appreciated

Andrew Weller

[Richard Weller]

Andrew,

Paul's tree tallies with the data you have already seen. Briefly:

Thomas WELLER 1632-1722, attorney of Tonbridge, married 2ndly Elizabeth
LEGATT at St Olave, Hart St., London, 27 Jun 1661.

The 5th of their 13 children was Thomas, bapt 26 Aug 1668 Tonbridge, buried
27 Feb 1737/38 Sevenoaks. Thomas married 2nd wife (of 3) Elizabeth BASSET
23 Jun 1692 at Sevenoaks.

The 9th of their 15 children was Henry bapt 5 Aug 1704, Sevenoaks, saddler,
and buried 14 Feb 1764 at Arundel, Sussex. Henry married by licence 18 Feb
1730/31 at St Botolf without Aldersgate, London, Elizabeth EVANS.

Their only surviving child was Henry who was born ca 1743, a maltster of
Arundel, buried there 9 Aug 1813 aged 70. Paul doesn't mention this Henry's
wife or their marriage, but lists children James, Henry, James II, Elizabeth
and William. Henry born ca. 1770 buried Arundel 17 Jan 1834 aged 64,
married Mary Ann REYNELL (1766-1831) 26 May 1790 at St James, Westminster.
Paul names ten children.

From this you will note that Paul didn't have details of Henry 1770's
marriage. Do you have the date, place, and Elizabeth's surname? He does
give quite a lot of detail about Henry 1704-1764. He traced his own descent
from Henry 1770's son Charles 1792-1859. Incidentally, many years ago, long
before I had contact with Paul, I researched his uncle John WELLER
1877-1966, who was co-founder and designer of AC cars (and who had business
connections with ROYCE of Roller fame.)

I think I need to sound a slight note of caution. I have found some errors
in Paul's research of the earlier WELLERs of Tonbridge etc. (as well as
errors in my own early research, I hasten to add!) so I cannot be absolutely
certain that the above details are accurate. It is particularly difficult
when father and son or cousins of the same forename married wives who also
shared a common forename, and were having children during the same years. On
the other hand, it is surely significant that Paul's tree agrees with the
information you have seen elsewhere.

Richard.

[Andrew Weller]

Richard

Many thanks for the information - it seems to fit very well with what
I've gleaned elsewhere. I think I have your Maj Paul WELLER in my tree
as Paul Beresford Weller (10 Dec 1931 - 22 Nov 2007). I also have
John Weller (1877-1966) - I hadn't realised John was the co-founder of
AC Cars!


Much of my information came from Mike Musgrove who married Gill
Weller. He said "one member of the family claimed to have solved the
mystery [of the connection between Arundel & Sevenoaks Wellers] but he
died a year or so ago and I have not yet been able to gain access to
his research which could clear up some issues. It's all rather
tantalising as he claimed to have traced the Wellers back to
Elizabethan days". Given Maj Paul Weller is 1st Cousin once removed
from Gill, I'm wondering if Mike is also referring to Maj Paul
Weller? I'll get in touch to try and find out.

Whilst some of my data isn't primary, I've manged to cross check the
Arundel details via parish records, and other Sevenoaks data appears
consistent with other information on Roots web
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=Search&includedb=&lang=en&ti=&surname=weller&stype=Exact&given=thomas&bplace=&byear=1632&brange=1&dplace=&dyear=&drange=2&mplace=&myear=&mrange=2&father=&mother=&spouse=&skipdb=&period=All&submit.x=Search

Other information I have:
I have Thomas Weller 1668 marrying Ann SAXBY on 1 Apr 1695 in
Sevenoaks. It may have been an earlier marriage, but have been unable
to match Elizabeth BASSETT's marriage in 1692 which you mention.
Anecdotally, I have his first daughter as Ann, but no other supporting
evidence for the SAXBY marriage.

Henry Weller (1742) married Elizabeth GRACE on 10 Nov 1764. Elizabeth
was buried in Arundel 1 Mar 1812 aged 63 (P/R)
Their children from the parish records fit with your details:
James Weller (bap Arundel 8 Sep 1865) believed to have died 1765,
but no burial in P/R
Henry ("Harry") Weller 1770. Unable to trace baptism in P/R, but he
was buried Arundel 17 Jan 1834 (P/R)
James Weller (bap Arundel 4 Aug 1771)
Elizabeth Weller (bap Arundel 8 Aug 1773) married Robert Wakeford
18 Jun 1795 Arundel (P/R)
William Weller (bap Arundel 29 May 1779). This P/R entry shows
father's name as "Henry Clear Weller" - but only this entry has a
middle name

Henry "Harry" Weller (1770) married Mary Anne Reynell (20 May 1790
Westminster). Middle name is spelt with & without an "e" in P/Rs.
Mary was buried 18 Nov 1831 in Arundel aged 65 (P/R). They had the
following children:

Carew Henry Weller (bap Arundel 31 Dec 1790)
Charles Weller (bap Arundel 21 Sep 1792) Pork butcher and seedsman;
Postmaster and Stationer. buried Arundel 24 Feb 1859
He married Elizabeth Holloway (1784-1859) in Portsea 19 Oct 1815
Henry Weller (bap Arundel 13 Nov 1794) Possibly married Emma ????
(nothing in Arundel P/R)
George Weller (bap Arundel 22 Aug 1796)
William Reynell Weller (bap Arundel 14 Aug 1798 - but unable to
trace on P/R)
Mary Anne Weller (bap Arundel 23 Jul 1800)
Edward Weller (bap Arundel 8 Nov 1802)
Frederick Weller (bap Arundel 25 Nov 1804) Died Q1 1882
Westhampnett
Robert Weller (bap Arundel 21 Sep 1806) Died 12 Mar 1846 Worthing
John Weller believed born 1809 Arundel & christened 14 OCT 1812
Tarrant Street-Independent, Arundel (from www.familysearch - unable to
match in P/R)

My descent is from
Henry "Harry" Weller (Arundel 1770)
Charles Weller (Arundel 1792)
George Weller (Arundel 1821)
George Henry Weller (Effingham 1854)
George Henry Weller (Wandsworth 1885)
Dennis Charles Weller (Balham 1924)

I'd be happy to send you a copy of my GED file.

You mentioned Maj Paul Weller had quite a lot of detail on Henry
1704-1764. I'd be fascinated, as this is the Seveoaks to Arundel
connection - is it possible to share this?

Thanks again

Andrew

[Jule...@aol.com]

Could someone explain to me where Henry Weller (1742) fits into the Weller tree?  I am trying to piece together all this new information so that I can do some research on the Weller line, but I'm obviously missing a few links.

Many thanks

Regards, Juli

[Richard Weller]

Thanks Andrew,

For the moment I will reply under this thread to details closely
connected to Henry WELLER 1704 and post messages about John WELLER of
AC cars and Major Paul WELLER separately. According to Paul, with my
comments in [ ] brackets.

Henry's father Thomas married three times:
1. 23 Jun 1692 at Sevenoaks to Elizabeth BASSET, who was buried at
Tonbridge 12 Nov 1694, having given birth to Abigail bapt 3 Apr 1693
at Sevenoaks.

2. 1 Apr 1695 at Sevenoaks by licence to Ann SAXBIE, widow. [There is
some confusion about this, because Julie has her as daughter not widow
of William SAXBIE/SAXBY.] She was buried 10 Jul 1712, Sevenoaks.

3. 5 Mar 1716/17 at Wrotham to Anne TOMLYN, widow of Thomas TOMLYN of
Wrotham, gentleman. She also predeceased her husband, being buried at
Sevenoaks 20 Aug 1734.

The daughter Ann who you mention was a daughter of Thomas and Ann, but
Paul has an older daughter Elizabeth, who was bapt 1 Dec 1695
Sevenoaks and four sons before Ann. [I do wonder about Elizabeth,
conceived before the marriage and named after Thomas's previous wife.
But the Sevenoaks PRs do have 'Eliz d/o Thomas WELLER bapt 1 Dec
1695.]

Thanks for the info about Henry 1742's wife Elizabeth GRACE and their
family. I will post Paul's info about him seperately.

The data Paul found for Henry 1704 is:

Henry WELLER bapt 5 Aug 1704 Sevenoaks, Kent, seventh but second
surviving son of his father [Thomas 1668-1537/38.] Bound apprentice
July 1721 to Daniel PEACE, Citizen and Saddler of London; £20; Opened
in business as saddler in Southwark. Admitted to the freedom of the
City in the Company of Saddlers by service, Feb 1728. (Edward, son of
Edward HALL of St Mary Cray, Kent, was bound apprentice 1730 to Henry
WELLER, Citizen & Saddler, £15.15s)Buried 14 Feb 1764 Arundel,
Sussex. Henry WELLER, Citizen & Saddler of London and of St Saviour,
Southwark, Surrey, married by licence 18 Feb 1730/31 at St Botolf
without Aldersgate, London, to Elizabeth EVANS of St John's, Wapping,
London, daughter (bapt 4 May 1701, St Mary Abchurch, London) of
Richard EVANS and Mary HUIT(T) his wife, of St Mary Abchurch, London.

Henry WELLER of Arundel, maltster, only surviving son, nat 1743, bur.
9 Aug 1813, aet 70 yrs, Arundel, Sussex. [That appears to be a
Monumental Inscription transcript.]

Richard

[Richard Weller]

Juli,

You ask

< Could someone explain to me where Henry Weller (1742) fits into the
Weller  tree? >

I think Andrew's message and my reply probably answer that. Paul has
Henry as born 1743, but I suspect that is calculated from him being
aged 70 when he died in 1813. It is possible that he was born in
Southwark or adjacent parish.

Richard

[Andrew Weller]

Juli

Re Henry (1742) dob. Arundel transcript says "07/08/1742 Henry to
(Henry & Elizabeth WELLAR)"

There is a note "[Not in P/R]" against this transcript. I checked
with the PRT Society
and this means the entry was found in the Bishops Transcript, rather
than
the Parish Record.

Andrew

[Andrew Weller]

Richard

Thanks for the detailed information re Henry (1704). Much
appreciated,
and fits with a note re him being a sadler which I picked up some time
ago.

I have a jotting that there may also been a son Edward, but cannot
recall
where I saw this, or trace it in the Arundel registers. Maybe nothing,
but
did Paul have any note of this?

Andrew

[Richard Weller]

Andrew,

 

Paul didn't record any siblings for Henry 1704 or Henry 1742. 

 

Richard

 

[Mike]

I'm sorry that my first contribution to this group is going to be a
negative one and will probably destroy a family legend.

When my wife and I first met Paul Weller over 30 years ago he told us
about the Wellers of Cranbrook and Tonbridge and the Jane Austen
connection and that he believed that his part of the family was
descended from them. He also said that he was having difficulties
with some data in Southwark.

Subsequently I have worked backwards to Henry Weller (born in Arundel
in 1743) but have never been able to make the connection with the
Wellers in Kent. I lost touch with Paul for a long time but in the
year or so before he died I renewed contact and he confirmed details
of my research but never volunteered any information. I was therefore
delighted to hear from Andrew and see the exchange of posts with
Richard that seemed to confirm the connection through Henry Weller,
saddler of Southwark. The one piece of information I didn't already
have was Henry's alleged date of death in Arundel.

However, I think I have discovered several major flaws in Paul's
argument:

1) The will of Sarah Weller of Tonbridge (made in 1726) (she was
sister of Elizabeth Austen) makes many bequests to the children of her
brothers and sisters and amongst these she refers to the children of
her brother Thomas (of Sevenoaks), namely Daniel, Henry, Robert, Sarah
and Anne Colgate. The will of John Colgate of Tonbridge (made in
1755) makes bequests to Daniel Weller, my former wife's brother, and
to Edward Weller my kinsman son of Henry Weller late of Southwark in
the County of Surrey sadler deceased. So Henry was already dead by
1755 and Paul claimed that Henry died in Arundel in 1764.

2) The London Parish Registers came online this week and I have had a
very brief look at the parish of St. Saviour's, Southwark. Most of
the records are illegible, the originals may be better, but I have
found a baptism in 1733 of Henry son of Henry Weller, saddler, and
Elizabeth. However, I have also found a burial for a Henry Weller in
1736 and it looks as though his occupation was sadler (the spelling
seems to vary between one and two "d"s)

3) I have noted a long time ago from a transcription of Arundel MIs
at the Society of Genealogists the burial of a Henry Weller in 1764
but also listed are the burials of his three wives - Jane, Ann and
Margaret. Not an Elizabeth in sight.

I would love to be proved wrong in my assumptions that the Arundel and
Kent families are completely separate as we don't live far from
Sevenoaks and Tonbridge and have seen the house where the Wellers
lived, looked round Tonbridge Castle and even seen the disputed
memorial in Tonbridge Parish Church. Also it would have been exciting
for my wife and children to be related to Jane Austen. However, I
think I will have to content myself with research in and around
Arundel.

Mike

[Richard Weller]

Mike, welcome to the Group. (I did try to invite you when it was
first set up, but your email address has changed since we were last in
contact.)

Many thanks for your helpful post. The main purpose of this Group is
to enable members to share their research findings and help one
another. There is so much misinformation about that it is wonderful
when we can have our deductions checked by other researchers. The
reason why Paul sent me his family tree was for me to 'look them over'
and comment. Like you, I found that he had made some unsubstantiated
assumptions, but he likewise challenged some of my own. At times we
had to 'agree to differ,' for instance about who was the father of the
armigerous Rev Richard WELLER.

I found it particularly helpful to have your quoted extract from the
will of Sarah WELLER written 1726, proved 1727, which I had not
ordered. The Tonbridge PRs, which I looked at in transcript over 50
years ago at the SoG, has her burial on 27 Jan 1726/27 as MRS Sarah,
and in my inexperience I had assumed that meant she was a widow not a
spinster, so had not connected her to the Sarah baptised in 1675,
daughter of Thomas.

What I found particularly interesting was that Sarah's brother was
Thomas of Sevenoaks and the names of his surviving children. There
may have been two Thomas WELLERs fathering children baptised at
Sevenoaks during the same period (because the intervals between them
were sometimes only a few months.) Some other BMDs of this family are
in Hadlow PRs.

I have not myself searched the Arundel PRs, as I was chiefly
interested in the descendants of the Rolvenden and Cranbrook WELLER
family, so was unable to comment on Paul's findings about Henry 1704,
Henry 1742, and Henry 1770. I wonder whether there were already
WELLERs in Arundel before the Henry who was buried there in 1764, and
who had married a Jane, an Ann and a Margaret.

Richard