[webc] X11 fails to autoconfigure on some machines - Webconverger 6.1
9 views
Skip to first unread message
NateEag
Apr 29, 2010, 1:02:00 AM4/29/10
to Webconverger Users
Hi folks,
The subject line says it all - I have a number of Dell Optiplex GX240
machines (and one Optiplex 4550) which Webconverger fails to get X
running on.
I have a customized build of Webconverger that's working fine on a
number of systems, but on the Optiplexes, the display begins what
looks like an infinite loop of resetting resolution at the point when
normally X would load and display Firefox (that is, it fails right
after the Splashy screen is done being displayed). I've tested it with
a couple different kinds of monitors - none seem to work, so I don't
think monitor is the issue here. I should comment that different
monitors do seem to behave slightly differently - some seem to get
stuck in aforementioned loop, while others seem to just display black
(that might just be a subtler resolution, change, though).
When I shut it down, I can sometimes see a really mangled copy of the
splashy image being displayed - from having used it on systems where
this works, I assume this is splashy running while the system shuts
down.
I did a custom build of Webconverger some while back (based on 4.3,
iirc), which I had used with these machines, and it worked perfectly
with them. I still have the disks, and it still does. Only the build
based on 6.1 has problems with these machines.
I downloaded a standard 6.1 Webconverger, and the problem exists
there, too.
I've tried a few modifications to the video boot parameter (which I
know virtually nothing about, just trying them blindly) - removing it
entirely, setting it to video=r128, setting it to video=vesa (note the
removal of the trailing options), but
I also have Kubuntu 9.10 and OpenSuSE 11.2 (KDE) LiveCDs lying about -
both machines work just fine with these.
The video-card related output from lspci on both machines (done under
Kubuntu 9.10) is identical. It follows:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage 128 Pro
Ultra TF
Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Device 0408
Flags: bus master, stepping, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64,
IRQ 16
Memory at f8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
I/O ports at ec00 [size=256]
Memory at ff8fc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
Expansion ROM at ff800000 [disabled] [size=128K]
Capabilities: <access denied>
Kernel modules: aty128fb
I don't know much about X11 or video drivers, but the common element
in the problem machines appears to be the Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF, and
perhaps the r128 driver that, so far as I can tell, is the one debian
uses to support this card. It's also interesting that Kubuntu, which
works, uses aty128fb, rather than r128. Some googling and reading
turned up this pair of Debian bug reports, and I wondered whether
there might be some connection. Both bugs appear to be against
versions of the software not in stable, but I thought they might still
be worth mentioning:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578269
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541630
I'd like to get this working - any ideas what I might try to further
to diagnose this issue? Is there an easy way to get Webconverger to
give me a console prompt and then log in, so that I can play with
things and screw with configuration?
The only modification I actually wanted to make to the old build was
to modify my Firefox changes so that autocomplete would be deactivated
- however, when I tried to build the old code I had checked out, I ran
into problems. I figured it would be easiest to just modify the
current build, which worked just fine - but doesn't work on these
particular machines, as it turns out. I assume that building something
from the 4.3 era isn't meant to be possible at this point? If it
should be achievable (I still have the right version of live-helper
tucked away), I could just do that as a temporary workaround.
Alternately, if there's some way to update the actual contents of the
old .iso, I might be able to tackle that, too, but I seem to recall
that isn't very likely to work.
I'd be perfectly happy with a nasty hack like "put this xorg.conf in
chroot_local-includes and put noxautoconfig in the boot parameters",
which I've seen references to online for getting specific machines to
work, but I haven't come up with any good way to test a custom
xorg.conf on non-USB bootable machines. In fact, I haven't even come
up with a good way to get an xorg.conf generated - the Kubuntu and
OpenSuSE LiveCDs that worked don't seem to actually have one. The one
on my old build (viewed by checking it out in the browser via file://
URL) seems to be entirely generic, giving absolutely no details as to
what driver it might use or anything of the sort.
If anyone can give me any ideas as to how I might progress, it'd be
much appreciated. Thanks!
-Nate Eagleson
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Webconverger Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to webc-users+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
The subject line says it all - I have a number of Dell Optiplex GX240
machines (and one Optiplex 4550) which Webconverger fails to get X
running on.
I have a customized build of Webconverger that's working fine on a
number of systems, but on the Optiplexes, the display begins what
looks like an infinite loop of resetting resolution at the point when
normally X would load and display Firefox (that is, it fails right
after the Splashy screen is done being displayed). I've tested it with
a couple different kinds of monitors - none seem to work, so I don't
think monitor is the issue here. I should comment that different
monitors do seem to behave slightly differently - some seem to get
stuck in aforementioned loop, while others seem to just display black
(that might just be a subtler resolution, change, though).
When I shut it down, I can sometimes see a really mangled copy of the
splashy image being displayed - from having used it on systems where
this works, I assume this is splashy running while the system shuts
down.
I did a custom build of Webconverger some while back (based on 4.3,
iirc), which I had used with these machines, and it worked perfectly
with them. I still have the disks, and it still does. Only the build
based on 6.1 has problems with these machines.
I downloaded a standard 6.1 Webconverger, and the problem exists
there, too.
I've tried a few modifications to the video boot parameter (which I
know virtually nothing about, just trying them blindly) - removing it
entirely, setting it to video=r128, setting it to video=vesa (note the
removal of the trailing options), but
I also have Kubuntu 9.10 and OpenSuSE 11.2 (KDE) LiveCDs lying about -
both machines work just fine with these.
The video-card related output from lspci on both machines (done under
Kubuntu 9.10) is identical. It follows:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage 128 Pro
Ultra TF
Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Device 0408
Flags: bus master, stepping, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64,
IRQ 16
Memory at f8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
I/O ports at ec00 [size=256]
Memory at ff8fc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
Expansion ROM at ff800000 [disabled] [size=128K]
Capabilities: <access denied>
Kernel modules: aty128fb
I don't know much about X11 or video drivers, but the common element
in the problem machines appears to be the Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF, and
perhaps the r128 driver that, so far as I can tell, is the one debian
uses to support this card. It's also interesting that Kubuntu, which
works, uses aty128fb, rather than r128. Some googling and reading
turned up this pair of Debian bug reports, and I wondered whether
there might be some connection. Both bugs appear to be against
versions of the software not in stable, but I thought they might still
be worth mentioning:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578269
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541630
I'd like to get this working - any ideas what I might try to further
to diagnose this issue? Is there an easy way to get Webconverger to
give me a console prompt and then log in, so that I can play with
things and screw with configuration?
The only modification I actually wanted to make to the old build was
to modify my Firefox changes so that autocomplete would be deactivated
- however, when I tried to build the old code I had checked out, I ran
into problems. I figured it would be easiest to just modify the
current build, which worked just fine - but doesn't work on these
particular machines, as it turns out. I assume that building something
from the 4.3 era isn't meant to be possible at this point? If it
should be achievable (I still have the right version of live-helper
tucked away), I could just do that as a temporary workaround.
Alternately, if there's some way to update the actual contents of the
old .iso, I might be able to tackle that, too, but I seem to recall
that isn't very likely to work.
I'd be perfectly happy with a nasty hack like "put this xorg.conf in
chroot_local-includes and put noxautoconfig in the boot parameters",
which I've seen references to online for getting specific machines to
work, but I haven't come up with any good way to test a custom
xorg.conf on non-USB bootable machines. In fact, I haven't even come
up with a good way to get an xorg.conf generated - the Kubuntu and
OpenSuSE LiveCDs that worked don't seem to actually have one. The one
on my old build (viewed by checking it out in the browser via file://
URL) seems to be entirely generic, giving absolutely no details as to
what driver it might use or anything of the sort.
If anyone can give me any ideas as to how I might progress, it'd be
much appreciated. Thanks!
-Nate Eagleson
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Webconverger Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to webc-users+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
NateEag
Apr 29, 2010, 1:08:43 AM4/29/10
to Webconverger Users
arg - the line ending 'but' was meant to end 'but this had no impact.'
Excuse my bad typing, please.
> be worth mentioning:http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578269http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541630
Excuse my bad typing, please.
joseph gunn
Apr 29, 2010, 2:54:49 AM4/29/10
to webc-...@googlegroups.com
It is possible to unpack a distribution to disk, make modifications, and repack into a working system.
you might be interested in looking at the squashfs at
scripts/live-bottom/20xconfig
the X server creates a log that can be inspected to determine the reason for a failure.
That may be accessed in a number of ways.
you might be interested in looking at the squashfs at
scripts/live-bottom/20xconfig
the X server creates a log that can be inspected to determine the reason for a failure.
That may be accessed in a number of ways.
NateEag
Apr 29, 2010, 11:52:12 AM4/29/10
to Webconverger Users
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for the reply.
I've found a few walkthroughs on the unpacking/repacking a distro
front, so I'll probably give that a try, and see if I can't get
autocompletion turned off in FF on the original disk via that route.
We'll see how it goes.
Again, thanks for the help.
-Nate
> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578269http://bugs.de...
> > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > .
Thanks for the reply.
I've found a few walkthroughs on the unpacking/repacking a distro
front, so I'll probably give that a try, and see if I can't get
autocompletion turned off in FF on the original disk via that route.
We'll see how it goes.
Again, thanks for the help.
-Nate
> > .
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
NateEag
Apr 29, 2010, 12:50:49 PM4/29/10
to Webconverger Users
On investigation, I find that my old build used squashfs 3.1.
It looks like the kernel's been on 4.0, which is incompatible with
3.1, since somewhere around 2.6.29. I could use unsquashfs to unpack a
3.1-based filesystem, but I couldn't repack it back into the 3.1
format, so the system wouldn't be able to unpack it at boot time.
So, it looks like that route's probably a no-go, unless I could find a
functional system with a 3.1-compatible kernel to try it with. I'm not
really sure where I'd be able to dig one of those up.
Anyone have any other thoughts on how I might solve this problem?
It looks like the kernel's been on 4.0, which is incompatible with
3.1, since somewhere around 2.6.29. I could use unsquashfs to unpack a
3.1-based filesystem, but I couldn't repack it back into the 3.1
format, so the system wouldn't be able to unpack it at boot time.
So, it looks like that route's probably a no-go, unless I could find a
functional system with a 3.1-compatible kernel to try it with. I'm not
really sure where I'd be able to dig one of those up.
Anyone have any other thoughts on how I might solve this problem?
joseph gunn
Apr 29, 2010, 4:13:29 PM4/29/10
to webc-...@googlegroups.com
do you know how X is being setup in the old distro? it should be possible ( theoretically ;)) to config a new distro to use the same x config that the old version used.
NateEag
Apr 30, 2010, 1:10:17 PM4/30/10
to Webconverger Users
I did take a look at xorg.conf from the old distro once it loaded up
on one of the problem machines, and it was extremely generic - I know
very little about X, but I assumed that since xorg.conf had no
specifics about the hardware or video drivers, using it wouldn't solve
any problems on my particular machines. Maybe I should try dropping
that into place, though.
Like I said, I don't know much about X - when you say "how X is set
up", are you referring to the "scripts/live-bottom/20xconfig" you
mentioned? Since I have the .iso, I guess I should be able to mount
it, use unsquashfs to extract the filesystem, dig out any information
that might be useful, and customize my new build based on that info.
That hadn't occurred to me until just now - thanks. Any resources you
can point me to that would explain how to figure out how X config
works, and which parts might matter?
Currently we're planning to just use the old boot CD as-is - turning
off autocomplete would be nice for our purposes, but isn't required.
I'm still sort of inclined to keep working on it, but it's more a
personal curiousity/annoyance thing than a need, at this point.
Again, thanks for the help - I appreciate it.
-Nate
> > > > > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou ps.com>
> > <webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%252Bunsubscribe@googl egroups.com>
> > <webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%252Bunsubscribe@googl egroups.com>
>
> read more »
on one of the problem machines, and it was extremely generic - I know
very little about X, but I assumed that since xorg.conf had no
specifics about the hardware or video drivers, using it wouldn't solve
any problems on my particular machines. Maybe I should try dropping
that into place, though.
Like I said, I don't know much about X - when you say "how X is set
up", are you referring to the "scripts/live-bottom/20xconfig" you
mentioned? Since I have the .iso, I guess I should be able to mount
it, use unsquashfs to extract the filesystem, dig out any information
that might be useful, and customize my new build based on that info.
That hadn't occurred to me until just now - thanks. Any resources you
can point me to that would explain how to figure out how X config
works, and which parts might matter?
Currently we're planning to just use the old boot CD as-is - turning
off autocomplete would be nice for our purposes, but isn't required.
I'm still sort of inclined to keep working on it, but it's more a
personal curiousity/annoyance thing than a need, at this point.
Again, thanks for the help - I appreciate it.
-Nate
> > <webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%252Bunsubscribe@googl egroups.com>
>
> > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > > > > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou ps.com>
> > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > > > > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > <webc-users%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%252Bunsubscribe@googl egroups.com>
>
> > > > > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou ps.com>
> > > > > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > webc-users+...@googlegroups.com<webc-users%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou ps.com>
> > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Webconverger Users" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to webc-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups...
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/webc-users?hl=en.
>
> > --
>
> read more »
joseph gunn
Apr 30, 2010, 11:19:07 PM4/30/10
to webc-...@googlegroups.com
Hmmm. I'll take a stab at this, but i am in no way an expert.
Modern day X is mostly autoconfiguring, so most of the configuration documentation is from previous versions.
Usually the biggest variable is the driver that is used. That is also autoconfigured, but it can be overridden in the x configuration file.
In order to get a better handle on what is going on i would build a version of the CD that didn't autostart X ( its started in /home/webc/.bash_profile via "startx").
man pages for startx, Xserver, and the driver for your video card should be helpful.
Also there is probably someone on the Xorg site who has worked out the details for your monitor/videocard combo.
Modern day X is mostly autoconfiguring, so most of the configuration documentation is from previous versions.
Usually the biggest variable is the driver that is used. That is also autoconfigured, but it can be overridden in the x configuration file.
In order to get a better handle on what is going on i would build a version of the CD that didn't autostart X ( its started in /home/webc/.bash_profile via "startx").
man pages for startx, Xserver, and the driver for your video card should be helpful.
Also there is probably someone on the Xorg site who has worked out the details for your monitor/videocard combo.
NateEag
May 1, 2010, 1:42:25 PM5/1/10
to Webconverger Users
Thanks for the info.
I may not have much time to look at this, but if I do figure something
out, I'll be sure to post back, for the benefit of anyone else that
might run into similar problems.
Again, thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.
-Nate
> > > > > > > > work, but I haven't...
I may not have much time to look at this, but if I do figure something
out, I'll be sure to post back, for the benefit of anyone else that
might run into similar problems.
Again, thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.
-Nate
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages