Web2py vs ruby on rails for a startup?

[Suresh Mali]

I am trying to zero on web framework for our startup, 

requirements 

a. Security ( we are working on financial info hence this is important) 

b. Good way of accessing algos/data of python Machine learning programs 

c. Low cost of hosting and development (a strartup with not much funds :-) looking for cloud hosting options. 

d. Relatively low userbase maybe a 1 million in a year's time (looking to server niche )

After reading a bit  have zeroed on Ruby on Rails and Web2Py.   

Looks like ROR is extremly quick,  but might have higher hosting costs..  difficulty of mainitaining etc.  other hand web2py seems to pull good things from ROR, but very small community and still early stages..   

Please suggest,  other suggestion liky Play, django etc. welcome if you feel strongly

[Massimo Di Pierro]

In my opinion the server costs are negligible whichever way you go. Most RoR users like Heroku (no persistent file system, only db storage, autoscale). For web2py we tend to prefer PythonAnywhere.com (like a vps but autoscale) and Google App Engine (better autoscale than anything but no filesystem, only db storage). For both if the number of users is not too intensive, you can use any normal virtual machine. I like DigitalOcean.com. It is cheap and easy to use.

The main issue here is (b). Your algorithms are likely to be in Python (numpy/scipy/scikit/etc) and it will be much much easier to access them from a Python framework. In web2py we provide a built-in scheduler which allows you (if you run on a VPS) to submit computing intensive tasks and execute them asynchronously and in parallel. 

I have worked a lot with financial applications. For example I have worked with the Vertica database to fetch stock quotes. Both web2py and RoR can talk to Vertica but in the case of web2py you can use the database abstraction layer, in case of RoR you have to use SQL.

About security (a). You cannot beat the security of web2py. Friday I am giving a talk at OWASP in Orange County about this. I will post slides. The University where I teach was one of the first in the country to receive a certificate of excellence from the NSA. This was not about web2py but this is to say we are security experts.

Costs of development are probably the same but it will be harder to find web2py developers but finding good RoR developers is also hard. Maintenance costs are lower in web2py.

Anyway, I am sure others here have some opinions to share.

Massimo

[Cliff Kachinske]

My opinions:

Size of community is not as important as willingness to provide good, timely help.

The Web2py community is second to none in these respects. 

The Web2py learning curve is such that ... well, if you hire a good Python dev you will soon have a good Web2py dev. I have not found this to be true in, for example, Django.

[Don O'Hara]

+1 

The web2py community is first rate, with plenty of people who help out,

and never get tired of helping newbies (like me).

Plus, Massimo puts on a mean conference ;-).   Looking forward to the next one!!

That is spot on about a python developer becoming a good web2py dev quickly. The great thing about web2py

is that is in some respects an unobtrusive layer on python - i.e. the framework doesn’t

get in the way, it is just “there” when you need it. And learning web2py really means learning

how to read good python, and then write good python.

Don

--
Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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[Suresh Mali]

Thank you every one..  I got taste of great community!!  very helpful answers everyone...   My confidence in web2py has increased.  will make decision in couple of days and will be frequenter to the group

-Suresh

[Dave S]

On Sunday, August 10, 2014 10:20:43 AM UTC-7, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

[...]

About security (a). You cannot beat the security of web2py. Friday I am giving a talk at OWASP in Orange County about this. I will post slides. The University where I teach was one of the first in the country to receive a certificate of excellence from the NSA. This was not about web2py but this is to say we are security experts.

Which Orange County?

/dps
 

[Massimo Di Pierro]

http://www.meetup.com/OWASP-OC/

Are you nearby? If so, contact me privately.

Massimo

[Dave S]

On Monday, August 11, 2014 10:24:37 PM UTC-7, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

http://www.meetup.com/OWASP-OC/

Are you nearby?

Yep, that Orange County.

/dps

[Joe Barnhart]

I would disagree with RoR being extremely quick.  I inherited a commercial site using RoR and I'm completely replacing it in web2py.  One reason is because of its long pauses while users are trying to get their tasks done.  RoR was quick when the site was small, but now that its grown it is bogging down.  Although I am not a RoR expert, I have a team of professional RoR developers maintaining the site and they assure me the site is performing as quickly as it can.

My prototype web2py site is orders of magnitude faster and I've scaled it up even larger than the current site with test loads.  I expect it will easily outperform my existing RoR site.

Joe

[Derek]

Yea, I mean if you look at the benchmarks, Ruby is about half as fast as Python, in web and other benchmarks...

web: http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/

[Dave S]

And well worth having pizza and beer pushed at me!

Thanks again for the presentation, Massimo!

/dps

[Encompass solutions]

I think about the easy of handing the server off to others to test and setup.  Web2py is much easier.  BY FAR.
BR,
Jason

[Encompass solutions]

I have worked with 10s of python people  and there transition to web2py was easy.  Ruby itself is hard to find, but python is much more popular.