powered by drupal?
mdipierro
mr.freeze
On Feb 4, 5:00 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> http://webtopy.org/community/tips-examples
Anand Vaidya
I don't think there is anything in Python as good and easy to use.
esp.for end users who are familiar with WYSISYG HTML editing but may
be not familiar with RST, Markdown etc.
I tried MoinMoin with the RST/Markdown plugin, seems very buggy still
(or maybe due to the fact that I am using 1.8-plugin in Moin-1.9.1?)
Regards
Anand
mdipierro
Massimo
On Feb 4, 5:56 pm, Anand Vaidya <anandvaidya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, Drupal CMS.http://www.drupal.org/
Anand Vaidya
On Feb 5, 10:44 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> Do you want me to endorse a web2py wiki make with Drupal?
>
> Massimo
Hi Massimo,
I think should not be a problem. I am declaring the site as
unofficial until you get comfortable with it. You could probably wait
a bit longer and see how it evolves.
My thoughts:
* web2py is optimized for apps , Drupal is optimized for CMS. We could
implement a CMS app with w2py but I think that will be so against DRY.
* Both are Open Source software
* We will be wasting our time if we try to duplicate Drupal (or
Joomla) functionality with web2py. CMS is a problem that has been
solved many times (esp. in the PHP / Java world)
* Drupal is absolutely wonderful ( at the cost of being a bit complex
to understand) has tons of themes, addon modules and a huge community
etc.
* I have not seen a Markdown/RST based wiki / CMS that is very easy to
use AND works well/looks good . Drupal uses HTML for content and with
CKeditor JS GUI editor, it is as easy as editing a MSWord (or
OpenOffice) document
* Many projects do host their docs "elsewhere" eg: Earlier, I had
actively used Gridsphere (http://www.gridsphere.org) - a Java Portlet
Server which used to host their docs/bugs with Atlassian Confluence /
Jira.
My opinion is that right now, we need to get something that is very
easy to enable everyone, irrespective of their skill level to be able
to contribute. And have a functional, visually appealing docs site.
We can always migrate to a better app on python or web2py when it is
ready for prime time.
Do you have any specific issues with Drupal. (eg: security etc)
Regards
anand
Zoom.Quiet
> On Feb 5, 10:44 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> Do you want me to endorse a web2py wiki make with Drupal?
>>
http://www.wikimatrix.org/compare/DokuWiki+MediaWiki+MoinMoin
Drupal is great CMS,not wiki engine;
in Python MoinMoin is perfect!
in fact running one wiki,need think about:
- long time maintenance and upgrade ~ no DB is good
- wiki syntax simple and pop and powered ~ MoinMoin is enough and so many plugin
iff want usage wiki to collection and publishing web2py knowledge,
MoinMoin powered by Python,is nature and good choice!
...
>> > On Feb 5, 7:00 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > >http://webtopy.org/community/tips-examples
>
--
http://zoomquiet.org 人生苦短? Pythonic!
Free as in Freedom! 哲思社区:http://zeuux.com
Pynthon
it is still very handy for this kinda of information.
On 5 feb, 05:34, "Zoom.Quiet" <zoom.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> --http://zoomquiet.org人生苦短? Pythonic!
rock...@googlemail.com
Using anything different than web2py is a no go.
Practice what you preach. Otherwise you are not credible
mikech
On Feb 8, 1:47 pm, "ma...@rockiger.com" <rocki...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
mdipierro
On Feb 8, 3:47 pm, "ma...@rockiger.com" <rocki...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
Mengu
language and was using wordpress on his blog. Isn't this weird?
Brian M
Sorry, but there are a bunch of wikis out there that are better/more
complete than the one in web2py. Yeah we can try to built the perfect
wiki in web2py but waiting to do the community documentation until
that happens is a waste. Wiki syntax is pretty standard, when the day
comes to move to a web2py powered wiki the content can be migrated,
but in the mean time I say put something out there with MoinMoin or
DokuWiki or whatever and start getting some quality content.
Credibility wise I should think that having what's preceived as "poor"
documentation is worse than having good documentation that just
happens to not be powered by the framework being documented. I think
people will understand that the best tool for the job that was
currently available was used.
Just my 2 cents (or less) worth.
~Brian
Jonathan Lundell
> Actually, I saw that this guy wrote Erlyweb framework for the Erlang
> language and was using wordpress on his blog. Isn't this weird?
Not really. I don't think that there's blogging software written in Erlang (or Python, for that matter) that compares with WordPress and its ecology.
Jonathan Lundell
> Insisting on having to use web2py for the documentation is silly.
> Sorry, but there are a bunch of wikis out there that are better/more
> complete than the one in web2py. Yeah we can try to built the perfect
> wiki in web2py but waiting to do the community documentation until
> that happens is a waste. Wiki syntax is pretty standard, when the day
> comes to move to a web2py powered wiki the content can be migrated,
> but in the mean time I say put something out there with MoinMoin or
> DokuWiki or whatever and start getting some quality content.
> Credibility wise I should think that having what's preceived as "poor"
> documentation is worse than having good documentation that just
> happens to not be powered by the framework being documented. I think
> people will understand that the best tool for the job that was
> currently available was used.
I think that's right. I'm not a fan of DokuWiki. I prefer MediaWiki, but it looks like MoinMoin is pretty similar in syntax.
mdipierro
documentation in any system they like and if it gets to decent quality
I just link it.
If I have to put any effort into it I would like a system that can
automatically read my latex, generate new one, be editable as a wiki,
introspect code in real time, extract docstring/docstests and allow
users to edit them. Something like but better than this:
http://www.web2py.com/examples/global/vars/T.
I think this is doable.
Why?
Because every single person on this list over the last 3 years has
proposed a new wiki solution. Almost nobody has actually written any
documentation (except those people who contributed with docstring
patches, web2pyslices and wiki.web2py.com). Most of what was
documented (outside the book) are examples and they get outdated soon
as new APIs are added to web2py.
I believe the solution must come from liking documentation to the
code.
Massimo
rock...@googlemail.com
Practice what you preach.
mdipierro
party tools is a requirement for people willing to create
documentation, fine. I am going to stick with web2py and I will
hopefully post some documentation online soon.
On Feb 10, 1:22 am, "ma...@rockiger.com" <rocki...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
Anand Vaidya
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Anand Vaidya
Anand
Anand Vaidya
Exactly what I wanted to say all along...
pistacchio
> Credibility wise I should think that having what's preceived as "poor"
> documentation is worse than having good documentation that just
> happens to not be powered by the framework being documented.
+1
Some days ago web2py popped up on reddit where frequent comments where
like:
- "It is under very active development docs fall behind."
- "I've considered playing with it a few times to see if I can make
use of it. But I've been really turned off by the documentation"
- - "same here"
In the very few days, also, on this groups, those kind of topics
arose:
powered by drupal? http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/t/56a821400ce4dd8c?hl=en
PDF manual soon available online in HTML (maybe)
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/0ec97ec251ab1cc9?hl=en
proposal for online documentation
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/736d8b5351d6d1ec?hl=en
The state of the wiki and documentation in general
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/231fee7e4a11682d?hl=en
state of documentation: why pdf?
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/3c6c21585508eb92/b8677223a9ccd30d?hl=en
all dealing with the "problem" of web2py documentation. Now, apart
from Massimo, there's no voice within or outside the web2py community
saying things like "the actual wiki's poor but at least it's web2py!"
or "we need better documentation but only if it can be done in
web2py". All the people waning to contribute documentation, or asking
for it or complaining about it are focused on concepts like:
- expandable (like wiki)
- updated (like not pdf)
- searchable (like html based)
- unified (like not "sure, this is documented! just search the
newsgroup or the pdf or the quick examples or the wiki or the pdf
addenda or web2pyslices or the examples or the other pdf!")
If web2py doesn't have (yet) a mean to provide an expandable, update,
searchable, unified documentation, let's rely on something standard
and consolidated with years of development behind it. The sooner the
whole web2py power is accessible to anyone, the sooner someone (maybe
currently turned out by the documentation itself) will exploit that
knowledge to build the perfect web2py wiki / documentation software.
tiago almeida
Why go through all this effort when there are so many great wiki engines?
Best regards,
Tiago
-----------
vfclists
Drupal. Drupal doesn't do very well in that respect. Drupal's own book
module has more than its fair share of issues and complaints, and is
one of the reasons why there are so many complaints about Drupal
documentation.
You CAN if you are willing to install and test the necessary
combination of modules, customised templating, and perhaps some CCK
I suggest using a well established wiki or using Drupal with some text
format that makes it easy to translate the documentation into a pdf or
chm format, like markdown or something along those line.
As Massimo has said - if you create the docs he will link to it. Just
agree on what format the docs will be built in, mostly which structure
focused tags are to be used. It is much easier to create a wiki with a
book chapter outline which contains "only" links to contributors pages
on the topic which have the right structure. With the passage of time
it will be easier for the editors to decide what should go into an
'official' manual
@anand
I have looked at site, and I see no signs of http://drupal.org/project/geshifilter.
You could probably add betterformats and a few content related
modules. Stay away from any kind WYSIWYG, and consider
http://drupal.org/project/bueditor and http://drupal.org/project/wmyeditor
My advice is to use bueditor or wymeditor to create a set of buttons
and tags based on a small subset of DocBook format and ensure all the
content is entered in that format. Documentation should go in
structured first time around. You really don't want any kind of
wysiwyg in there
It might be tedious initially but such an approach will pay of in the
long term
my 2 cents
Jonathan Lundell
> Is moin with RST or markdown fine with you? It seems to work fine and looks great with a theme such as Moniker theme ...
>
> If there are about 10 people on this list willing to try out moin or Drupal, we can form a group and start work... and wait no more...Let's stop discussing and get something done!
>
I'd be willing to give moin a shot. But as has been pointed out, it doesn't have section editing. That in itself I can live with (I'd rather not, but then I'd rather that pages didn't grow so long that it becomes crippling), but it seems to have been on their wishlist for the last 5 years without getting implemented, and that worries me about the project in general.
It doesn't bother me that the w2p wiki has rough edges, only that it tends to languish without improvement.
Anand Vaidya
> I don't think it is a smart idea to build a documentation website with
> Drupal. Drupal doesn't do very well in that respect. Drupal's own book
> module has more than its fair share of issues and complaints, and is
> one of the reasons why there are so many complaints about Drupal
> documentation. You CAN if you are willing to install and test the necessary
> combination of modules, customised templating, and perhaps some CCK
>
Hi vcflists,
No, a basic WYSIWYG is sufficient to start with . We can always add
modules as the need evolves. I don't want to jump into CCK etc now,
and doom the project right from the start
> I suggest using a well established wiki or using Drupal with some text
> format that makes it easy to translate the documentation into a pdf or
> chm format, like markdown or something along those line.
>
> As Massimo has said - if you create the docs he will link to it. Just
> agree on what format the docs will be built in, mostly which structure
> focused tags are to be used. It is much easier to create a wiki with a
> book chapter outline which contains "only" links to contributors pages
> on the topic which have the right structure. With the passage of time
> it will be easier for the editors to decide what should go into an
> 'official' manual
>
> @anand
> I have looked at site, and I see no signs of http://drupal.org/project/geshifilter.
> You could probably add betterformats and a few content related
> modules. Stay away from any kind WYSIWYG, and considerhttp://drupal.org/project/bueditorandhttp://drupal.org/project/wmyeditor
>
I am very clear that we will not build the core documentation with
Drupal, The text that goes into Massimo's book, is in Latex and
probably could move to RST+Sphinx. The expectations of high quality,
authentic info is a given. If anyone wants to contribute a chapter or
a section to the core doc (s)he must be willing to wrangle Latex or
RST.
I am suggesting Drupal for non-core, user generated docs. This will
probably be in a state of flux with users updating docs themselves.
Massimo could pull some text from here , reformat and include in his
book.
I hope the disctinction is clear.
Given that the target audience (for Drupal or MoinMoin) is any random
user, including new comers, or non-coders (eg: graphics artist / CSS
experts), we can't dump a cryptic format on them. One of the reasons
for low contributions is offering difficult processes to such a
person. Whereas HTML with ckeditor is as easy as it gets.
> My advice is to use bueditor or wymeditor to create a set of buttons
> and tags based on a small subset of DocBook format and ensure all the
> content is entered in that format. Documentation should go in
> structured first time around. You really don't want any kind of
> wysiwyg in there
> It might be tedious initially but such an approach will pay of in the
> long term
>
The short term goal is to unify and get going otherwise, as a
community we will be "famous" for "all talk and no walk"
Regards
Anand
selecta
Any site documenting/hosting a web2py community should be web2py, I
don like google groups i don't like the idea of joining in a non
web2py wiki.
I can see it is easier and makes even more sense to reuse something
good but if the docu/community platform isn't a web2py show-off then
people will think web2py is crap (I would)
Web2py is great for building social network sites, the docu even go a
simple wiki example, come on it cant be that hard, anything else is
embarrassing!
But yes we need something fast. To be honest what got me started with
web2py was some googeling an a nice rapidshare link. By now I've
bought the book but if i wouldn't have had google and rapidshare i
might have never discovered the wonderful world of web2py.
And one more thing
WHY ON EARTH IS WEB2PY NOT ON PYPI??? Do I have to make an entry or
are you going to do that massimo? ->http://pypi.python.org/
pypi?:action=register_form
fyi: in one of my web2py projects a colleague of mine is developing a
simple mailing-list software, hopefully we will release it some day
soon and somebody will improve it to get rid of this google group. I
don't like the layout, the lack of options, lack of text highlighting,
breaking of code examples ...
if I hurt somebody's feelings I apologize, just wanted to add my 2
cents
Frank Church
enough on his hands without trying to herd cats as well.
As he says, everyone can create their documentation, and he will link
to it .The community itself can have a central page where they are all
linked to.
> --
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> To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com.
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>
>
--
Frank Church
=======================
http://devblog.brahmancreations.com
mdipierro
something nice will come out soon.
Massimo