web2py conference - online talks

[Massimo Di Pierro]

Please find below the links to the video of the first web2py conference. Videos are not broken into talks. 

There is no audio for the first 2minutes but no talk either, only service announcements.

Part #1 (from start to lunch break)

https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183272

10:00-10:10! Conference Opening

10:10-10:20! “What's New with the PSF” by Brian Curtin

10:20-11:00! “History of web2py” by Massimo Di Pierro

11:00-11:40! "Learn web2py the Really Hard Way" by Anthony Bastardi 11:40-12:20! "Stereodose" by Mark Li

12:20-12:30! "Planet Host" by Jason Burosh

Part #2 (from tutorial to coffee break)

https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183273

13:00:13:40! "hands-on web2py tutorial" by Clifford Williams

13:40-14:20! "Angular and web2py" by Amber Doctor

14:20-14:40 ! "Stitching together the tree of life with web2py" by Richard Ree 1

4:40-15:00! "ShipElf: Automated Fulfillment with Web2Py" by Peter Szczepanski 

15:00-15:20! "MyIRE - What is Open Source Science?" by Mark Graves 

15:20-15:40! "Introduction to Mongodb" by Marco Chou

Part #3 (from coffee break to end)

https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183274

16:00-16:20! "Introduction to OpenShift" by Craig Brott

16:20-16:40! "Introduction to Hypermedia API" by Bryan Barnard 

16:40-17:00! "web2py and the Semantic web" by Chris Baron 

17:00-17-20! "Teaching an old dog new tricks" by Don O'Hara 

17:20-17:30! Conference Closing

[Omi Chiba]

Thank your for sharing the link. It was the best conference ever! I was so excited and arrived around 8:20am. No body was there just me, which makes me the first attendee for the first web2py conference : ) 

Sorry. I have to leave after lunch to take care my family but I will check the videos this afternoon. It was really fun because everyone talk about web2py and it's really cool I can meet Anthony who help me A LOT in this online forum. 

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I forgot. Here is the opening video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVSRnCxSuUk

[Richard Vézina]

+1, reallly funny stuff...

Richard

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <massimo....@gmail.com> wrote:

I forgot. Here is the opening video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVSRnCxSuUk

--
Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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[محمد امير‎]

بتاريخ الاثنين، 5 مايو، 2014 UTC+3 8:37:24 م، كتب Massimo Di Pierro:

I forgot. Here is the opening video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVSRnCxSuUk

how can i watch the conference 

[Marco Mansilla]

Is there any chance to download this videos to watch offline?, that
would be awesome.

Marco.

> Please find below the links to the video of the first web2py
> conference. Videos are not broken into talks.
> There is no audio for the first 2minutes but no talk either, only
> service announcements.
>
>

> *Part #1 (from start to lunch break)*

>
> https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183272
>
> 10:00-10:10! Conference Opening
>
> 10:10-10:20! “What's New with the PSF” by Brian Curtin
>
> 10:20-11:00! “History of web2py” by Massimo Di Pierro
>
> 11:00-11:40! "Learn web2py the Really Hard Way" by Anthony Bastardi
> 11:40-12:20! "Stereodose" by Mark Li
>
> 12:20-12:30! "Planet Host" by Jason Burosh
>

> *Part #2 (from tutorial to coffee break)*

>
> https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183273
>
> 13:00:13:40! "hands-on web2py tutorial" by Clifford Williams
>
> 13:40-14:20! "Angular and web2py" by Amber Doctor
>
> 14:20-14:40 ! "Stitching together the tree of life with web2py" by
> Richard Ree 1
>
> 4:40-15:00! "ShipElf: Automated Fulfillment with Web2Py" by Peter
> Szczepanski
>
> 15:00-15:20! "MyIRE - What is Open Source Science?" by Mark Graves
>
> 15:20-15:40! "Introduction to Mongodb" by Marco Chou
>

> *Part #3 (from coffee break to end)*

[Massimo Di Pierro]

The links are the beginning of this thread.

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I do not think so.

[António Ramos]

The angular talk was very informative.

+1 to Angular and web2py

--

[weheh]

+1 regarding the AngulaJS talk with web2py by Amber Doctor. Kudos to Amber for a talk well given!

I've been studying AngularJS a little and haven't written any code, yet, but my web Spidey sense is giving off alarms. I think Amber's talk underscores a potential danger of client-side MVC. First, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing in AngularJS that you can't already do in web2y using components. The difference is that Angular does it client side without needing to make an http call, so it potentially runs faster. And AngularJS seems to have a more compact way of doing things we do in jQuery with _onclick="blah blah blah" and other such ajax("url",["target"],":eval"); or web2py_component(...) stuff.

The danger highlighted by Amber's example is that Angular makes it much easier to create a client-side model that gets out of synch with its server-side web2py model. And keeping them in synch violates DRY principles, requiring the http calls that you would have had to do anyway if you did a web2py-component-only approach.

For instance, if Amber's talk had been about a collaborative recipe app and someone was updating the recipe database serverside while somebody else was perusing the db clientside, then it would be easy for the clientside user to get an out of date recipe and stay ignorant of that fact for a very long time. That's because the local copy of the data is fetched only once when the recipe is first clicked, assuming I understood her app correctly. Further exiting and entering the recipe would not do an http call, whereas the web2py component approach would naturally force an http call, thereby keeping the user in synch.

AngularJS seems to offer nifty, high-performance clientside business logic ability. But unless structured carefully, it's not clear that it'll save http calls without endangering synch between client and server. And it could introduce even more complexity in terms of debugging and verbosity in terms of supporting two MVCs for the same app. The thought of that makes me wince.

Anybody else have an opinion about this?

[António Ramos]

Amber was only focused in showing how easy it is to create a better experience for the user using Angular than simple javascript.

Also a lot less code for us, developers.

It was just a simple demo. Of course that if the app was real and to be used by many, she could/should worry about keeping data in sync.

And angular could fetch ajax data just like web2py components.I see no diference here. Its only a matter of taste.

I could as well say that using only web2py,if i have 1000 users and everytime i need to hide a row in a table i need an http call, my server will die soon with all requests.. and for this angular is a perfect fit.

--

[weheh]

@Ramos: I understand that Amber's script was necessarily limited by time constraints. But it did underscore that important gotcha with this kind of scripting when used with web2py. 

Per your example, if all I wanted to do was hide a table entry on click, I wouldn't want to pay the penalty of loading AngularJS to do that. $(".target").hide() works fine. So I'm still looking for the angle where AngularJS fits (no pun intended, but happy to make the pun anyway). ;-)

[António Ramos]

I was not talking about hiding on click. I was thinking about filtering with a live search box above the table.

Angular Filters and directives are awesome and once you know them you cant stop thinking about them.

I´m here to learn so feel free to pun me...

:P

2014-05-12 16:25 GMT+01:00 weheh <richard...@verizon.net>:

@Ramos: of course, I understand that Amber's script was necessarily limited, but it did highlight an important gotcha with this kind of scripting when used with web2py. And if all I wanted to do was hide a table entry on click, I wouldn't want to pay the penalty of loading AngularJS to do that. $(".target").hide() works fine. So I'm still looking for the angle where AngularJS fits (no pun intended, but happy to make the pun anyway). ;-)

On Monday, May 12, 2014 6:15:37 PM UTC+8, Ramos wrote:

[weheh]

Filtering and sorting can definitely save on http calls. Is there anything else you can think of where it's applicable without creating a synch issue in highly collaborative apps?

[António Ramos]

I´m just in favor of angular to improve and modernize user experience.

In this matter router-ui seems very interesting also.

Also ng animate for animations.

I dont understand how you relate directly data out of sync with angular and not with web2py.

If new data on server, just publish it to the clients so all update it.Its a web2py problem not angular.

Regards

António

[Michele Comitini]

How is angular.js compared to ractive.js inside web2py's ecosystem?
What is your opinion?

[Anthony]

I promised the code and slides from my talk -- available here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/web2py/1_CsiqCzrS4/E0mXwAiwWRYJ.

Anthony

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I have been using angular.js a lot but I find the controller pattern to be too constraining. for example I cannot use promises outside the scope of a controller. I also find that while easy for simple example is get easily out of hands and I find myself having to revert to jQuery for lots of stuff. Consider for example the case of opening/closing a panel when a button is clicked. One can do this with angular but if you wish to add any animation to the panel, you have to use jQuery.

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>
>
> --
> Resources:
> - http://web2py.com
> - http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
> - http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
> - https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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[Massimo Di Pierro]

I am looking at jQuery.js + underscore.js + reactive.js and I find everything I ever looked for. Seems much more flexible than Angular.js and I cannot see what I would be missing. What would I be missing?

I just wish they shared the same namespace instead of $, _, Reactive.

[António Ramos]

Massimo,

have you tried Angular-ui?

http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/

[Anthony]

Is this the reactive.js you are using: https://github.com/component/reactive?

[António Ramos]

or this ?

http://www.ractivejs.org/

[Massimo Di Pierro]

Yes. Ractive.js. I like it a lot. I had developed an application in Angular.js and then moved it to underscore.js+Ravtice.js and It became faster, leaner and more readable code. Of course it could have been me misusing angular. here is a problem for example...

Angular forces to organize code in controllers. The models live inside the scope of the controllers. Yet I want to build my application as a collection of jQuery plugins and I find myself having to create strange loops to pass information between the two. Also Angular does not always works as advertised.

Ractive always worked as intended. I can make a mode be global and access is from all the plugins without having to pass parameters everywhere. Also I can use the ractive.js promises everywhere without having to pass the $scope. 

Massimo

[Brian M]

Massimo, any chance of you posting a tutorial/how to of your setup? :)

[Massimo Di Pierro]

No but I do not like angular. It constrains the JS programming too much for my taste. I use ractive.js with bootstrap already without problems. 

[weheh]

Massimo, thanks for the pointer to ractive.js and comments about Angular.js. I still don't see much more I need that isn't provided by web2py components and some simple js scripts or jQuery routines. 

Angular somehow didn't pass my sniff test. Seemed like it was going to get out of hand too quickly. Your comments seem to confirm my suspicion.

In general, when looking at angular.js and ractive.js doc, it seems like there's a push to move more functionality to the client side. This seems counterproductive for a couple of reasons. The clients are far less capable than the server ... think cell phone ARM processor with a few MB memory vs. server pentium with many GB memory. So isn't pushing more processing onto client going to slow down the user experience and eat up mobile device battery faster? Isn't it more efficient to do the processing on the server and then send a few kb down to client end? 

Sure there are cases where you want to do maths in the front end or fancy animations. I usually let the js gurus do that stuff and then get it via a jQuery plugin. Is that what these frameworks are for, to help the jQuery wonks build fancy front-end stuff that the rest of us back-end guys can leverage later?

[Anthony]

In general, when looking at angular.js and ractive.js doc, it seems like there's a push to move more functionality to the client side. This seems counterproductive for a couple of reasons. The clients are far less capable than the server ... think cell phone ARM processor with a few MB memory vs. server pentium with many GB memory. So isn't pushing more processing onto client going to slow down the user experience and eat up mobile device battery faster? Isn't it more efficient to do the processing on the server and then send a few kb down to client end?

Yes, each client is (generally) less powerful than your server, but your server has to process requests for all clients, whereas each client has to handle only its own content. It's also faster for the server to return a small amount of JSON data (which the client can then use to update the DOM) rather than a full HTML response (i.e., less network traffic).

Anthony

[weheh]

I like the idea of serving only small JSON snips to the client. Yah, I'm beginning to see how it could work better/faster.

[António Ramos]

Also client side code enables apps to cache when offline.
See pouchdb for example

Em 17/05/2014 16:54, "weheh" <richard...@verizon.net> escreveu:

I like the idea of serving only small JSON snips to the client. Yah, I'm beginning to see how it could work better/faster.

--

[Carlos Zenteno]

I played with a couple of the ractive.js tutorials and it looks nice to speed up DOM manipulation
specially in phones.  Also found Cordova which seems awesome to access all the phone features.

Can anybody tell me a little about underscore.js?  Seems like a copy of jQuery or Prototype but
without touching  the core javascript libraries?  What is it good for?

[Anthony]

Note, there's also a potentially suprerior alternative to Underscore.js called Lo-Dash, which can be used as a drop-in replacement (though has additional features as well).

Anthony

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I think there are many pros and cons of both approaches:

Pros of client programming:

- distribute computation (less server load)

- only data is tranferred, not html (less bandwidth usage)

- most responsive applications

- more flexibility building non-standard interfaces

Cons of client programming

- much more difficult to secure (because some of the logic of what is display is client-side).

- non-standard interfaces is often what clients want but not always what users want.

- you have to program in different languages (client/server).

Massimo

[Osswalt]

Massimo,

should we expect a new web2py version with underscore.js + reactive.js integrated within ?

I'm an old dog and fell in love with web2py but I'm totally confused with all the HTML + CSS + JS mess.

I'd like to be directed to some easier and nicer way to build really cool, interactive and responsive web application.

Please suggest us the ultimate approach.

Ossowalt

[Ricardo Cárdenas]

Kudos to everyone involved in the web2py conference!

I'm having trouble watching the videos - maybe it's my connection, but often the video stops and the pointer resets to the beginning of the video. I'm having to refresh the browser and start over.

I don't know if others are having these problems, but it would be great if an offline solution was available.

thanks -Ricardo

On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:09:05 PM UTC-5, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

I do not think so.

On Monday, 5 May 2014 10:38:17 UTC-5, marco mansilla wrote:

Is there any chance to download this videos to watch offline?, that
would be awesome.

Marco.

> Please find below the links to the video of the first web2py
> conference. Videos are not broken into talks.
> There is no audio for the first 2minutes but no talk either, only
> service announcements.
>
>

> *Part #1 (from start to lunch break)*

>
> https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183272
>
> 10:00-10:10! Conference Opening
>
> 10:10-10:20! “What's New with the PSF” by Brian Curtin
>
> 10:20-11:00! “History of web2py” by Massimo Di Pierro
>
> 11:00-11:40! "Learn web2py the Really Hard Way" by Anthony Bastardi
> 11:40-12:20! "Stereodose" by Mark Li
>
> 12:20-12:30! "Planet Host" by Jason Burosh
>

> *Part #2 (from tutorial to coffee break)*

>
> https://colflash.cdm.depaul.edu/colflashweb/COLFlashPlayer.aspx?ID=183273
>
> 13:00:13:40! "hands-on web2py tutorial" by Clifford Williams
>
> 13:40-14:20! "Angular and web2py" by Amber Doctor
>
> 14:20-14:40 ! "Stitching together the tree of life with web2py" by
> Richard Ree 1
>
> 4:40-15:00! "ShipElf: Automated Fulfillment with Web2Py" by Peter
> Szczepanski
>
> 15:00-15:20! "MyIRE - What is Open Source Science?" by Mark Graves
>
> 15:20-15:40! "Introduction to Mongodb" by Marco Chou
>

> *Part #3 (from coffee break to end)*

[joseph simpson]

Yes, I had these types of problems also...

An offline solution would be great.

Have fun,

Joe

--

Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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--

Joe Simpson

"All that is gold does not glitter,

Not all those who wander are lost;

The old that is strong does not wither,

Deep roots are not reached by the frost."  J. R.R. Tolkien

[Cynthia Butler]

It was so wonderful to have all the videos posted the day after the conference!
I was so grateful for that, I felt like I was right there -- I watched every talk and learned so much.
I too had a few skipping back to the first problems, then I changed computers and connections (wired)
and didn't have any problems after that.

Thanks to everyone! Thanks for your slides Anthony, I wish you had more time on the agenda because I learned so much and wanted more!

Cindy

[Massimo Di Pierro]

Thank you for letting us know. :-)

[eric cuver]

can you explain how used web2py with ractive.js please