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- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
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Hello Massimo, May I have two questions on this?1. You say current web2py interprets code on every request. What does this mean on Google App Engine? (Every time I deploy, GAE seems to compile...)2. Overall, what do your plans exactly mean for people with an existing app on web2py? Is this a brand new and different framework or is there an upgrade path?Thanks.
Massimo, Do you see its better to do incremental changes to web2py that leads us to web3py at some point than to a completely new framework which may be lot of work and it will take monumental effort to fix all the bugs it may have.Just some thoughts...
2017-05-31 2:08 GMT+01:00 Dave S <snide...@gmail.com>:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 5:11:49 PM UTC-7, Ron Chatterjee wrote:Massimo, Do you see its better to do incremental changes to web2py that leads us to web3py at some point than to a completely new framework which may be lot of work and it will take monumental effort to fix all the bugs it may have.Just some thoughts...
Isn't he doing a parallel effort (with a few helpers)? Much python3 work has found it's way into web2py, and some of that has been used for web3py, and conversely some of the web3py work has been backported.
From what I've seen, it's not EXCLUSIVE-OR.
/dps
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Can we have something intermediate to help with the speed meanwhile? I am guessing speed will be the only motivation to consider in going from pathon 2 to python 3.
Rather than 3rd party packages available, I believe one of the most important criteria for any framework is the speed. How web3py compare to django, flask or other framework in terms of speed?
According to github, there were semi-regular releases going back to 2013, then they stopped about a year ago, so I guess it's only natural for people to wonder about the status of the project. Personally, I'm wondering if the project will continue to build production releases in the future. I see that master still gets some love, so maybe master is now stable for production and I missed it?
Anyhow, thank you for all your work on this framework. I admire the project itself and I think the community speaks for its integrity. I read your post earlier in this thread on your plans for web3py, and I thought I would say that as a web2py user, I loved how it gave me a current version of a few nice libraries and flattened web development into a single Python layer. Basically it gave me a mostly pre-built good-enough web interface and let me get on with the business of developing services for users.
Your web3py post concedes that the days of the flat development stack are over, and I agree it's unavoidable to use some of the newer JS components and move a lot of the work to the browser. I haven't checked out the stack you've listed in your reply yet, but I'll very likely end up using whatever you put together because I want to keep using helpers, validators and the DAL. I look forward to the day the lineup is stable enough for release, and thanks again for your past work on web2py.
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- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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It's difficult, for instance, to create modules that factor out db-centric code, because the db object (typically defined in a model file) won't be available; this forces you to reimplement the wheel to some extent by taking the db-creation code out of a plain model file and put it in a function --- which then breaks things like the db-admin tool.
Obviously these are complex issues, but in the end I think it would be ideal to find a way that makes simple things smooth without making more complex code interdependencies quite so painful. (Importing rather than executing code may help in this regard.)
I do think, though, that this is something that could be added to the existing web2py without requiring a wholesale rewrite; it basically amounts to adding more full-featured client-side tools, with linkups to the server, so that instead of using SQLFORM or whatever you can just have a series of <INPUT> elements in a view along with a {{=submitAjax}} or something that causes them to do their thing independent of the rest of the page. The "components" model seems to be something along these lines but from what I see it is still a good deal less comprehensive than the whole form/validator mechanism available to "real" forms.
The posts in this thread are showing desperate frustration for release of Web3Py. Please do it now.People like what web2py is and expect the same from web3py. The only expected difference is shift from Python2 to Python3.
Thank you for your time.
kr,
Oasis
- Better token based authentication for apis
- Support of GET and POST requests on login like flask does.
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- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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You can put anything that would go on a full page (including any form) in an Ajax component. Forms in components are submitted via Ajax (they are no less "real" than forms loaded in full pages), and only the component itself refreshes upon submission. It is not quite clear what else you are looking for.
You can put anything that would go on a full page (including any form) in an Ajax component. Forms in components are submitted via Ajax (they are no less "real" than forms loaded in full pages), and only the component itself refreshes upon submission. It is not quite clear what else you are looking for.
To give a concrete example, one thing I long for is client-side versions of all the validators that are validating based only on the form (that is, the "shape") of the data. A validator for something like a phone number or email address is just looking at the textual structure of the data, and it would be nice for that to be done client side and show a nice error ("enter a valid email" or whatever) before the form is ever submitted. This would not replace server-side validation, and some kinds of checks can only be done server side (e.g., if you want to make sure the address is not just syntactically valid but actually exists in the DB). But having client-side validators built in (and known to be equivalent/compatible with the server-side ones) would be really nice.
You can put anything that would go on a full page (including any form) in an Ajax component. Forms in components are submitted via Ajax (they are no less "real" than forms loaded in full pages), and only the component itself refreshes upon submission. It is not quite clear what else you are looking for.
To give a concrete example, one thing I long for is client-side versions of all the validators that are validating based only on the form (that is, the "shape") of the data. A validator for something like a phone number or email address is just looking at the textual structure of the data, and it would be nice for that to be done client side and show a nice error ("enter a valid email" or whatever) before the form is ever submitted. This would not replace server-side validation, and some kinds of checks can only be done server side (e.g., if you want to make sure the address is not just syntactically valid but actually exists in the DB). But having client-side validators built in (and known to be equivalent/compatible with the server-side ones) would be really nice.
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My plan is this....It is based on bottle + gevent + gunicorn + rethinkdb + pydal + vue.js +some code ported from web2py (templates, helpers, validators, internationalization, scheduler)Unlike web2py it uses modules not execfile and this makes it 10x faster (this part is done) and code it no longer interpreted at every request. Only on change.Routes are declared using decorators like in bottle and flask.It will use rethinkdb for storing errors, sessions, and anything user defined. This allows to scale horizontally. Nothing gets stored on the file system any more. Ever. Unless you choose to use sqlite for your app.No more forms and grids generated server side. Possible and will probably backport SQLFrom and Gid but will discourage it. The default client will be in vue.js. The forms and grids will be generated client-side based on self-documenting APIs. This work must be done. It is not terribly hard just pedantic.It has a redesigned admin. Not necessarily better but leaner. This part is also done although it may need restyling.I am ditching a lot of the web2py auth logic. Nobody really uses groups and permissions and the way it is done may not be the best way for everybody. Instead I will default to auth0 integration.From a developer prospective the code will look very similar and I will be able to recycle 90% of the documentation.The problems are that web2py grew a bit bloated and typical programming patterns have shifted from postbacks to single page apps with form submission via API. Also web2py does not provide enough tools for scaling since uses filesystem by default. The new version will do less then current web2py but will remedy those issues and make it easier to make responsive and scalable apps.I am conflicted. I could use help to get this done quicker but I do not want to post something that is half done people are unhappy with. What I would like may not be what everybody likes but I am mostly building this in a way that would work well for myself and share in the hope it is useful to others. BSD license.If you are willing to help before the code is made public feel free to contact me personally.Massimo
On Sunday, 28 May 2017 11:47:49 UTC-5, Oasis Agano wrote:
Is the new framework web3py if so when is the official launch?
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 2:32:01 AM UTC+2, Relsi Maron wrote:
Hi Andrea,
Yes, there will be a future for web2py!
Web2py will remain being what it is. :)
A new version, with support for Python 3, is about to come. Even though Massimo is developing a new framework, Web2py will continue to exist - with the same purpose for which it was created: to teach development.
Cheers.
Em sábado, 27 de maio de 2017 04:11:02 UTC-3, Andrea Fae' escreveu:
--
Thanks Massimo for outlining your plan. Would you be able to outline the goal?I think web2py's goal is a framework that is easy to start and program, and great for teaching purposes. Great for hobbyists, students and small company websites with up to 1000 clicks per day or so. Am I wrong?Can you outline the goal for web3py? (e.g. framework for websites in production with 100,000s clicks per day? or a framework for teaching client side web design? I don't know...)
And If I have to guess the fastest framework is not in python.
--
I notice web2py is reported latency... What is causing this latency, js not minify?? Ca we improve it?
What is web2py-optimized?
What is web2py-optimized?
Respected MassimoYou base idea of web3py is fantastic. Please share your web3py work. At least release its beta version, so that people play with it , be get acquaintance with it and positive feedback may be available so that direction of the web3py project may be in right direction. People like me are frustrated waiting web3py release. Please release it as soon as possible.Truly,Malik Muhammad Hashim
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Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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Hello folksIs there any update regarding web3py?Truly,Malik Muhammad Hashim
Then will be there are other framework? And no just to port the web2py codebase to py3..
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About Python, I know many people are still on Python 2, but to me it's legacy. Many people completely moved on to Python 3. That makes web2py very outdated.
It is based on bottle + gevent + gunicorn + rethinkdb + pydal + vue.js +some code ported from web2py (templates, helpers, validators, internationalization, scheduler)
Here's a radical and possibly stupid idea for Massimo to think about on a Saturday morning.
Forget web3py. Think about web2go.
There's lots of promise today for a good full-stack Golang framework. The Golang folks eschew the notion of full-stack frameworks, but I don't think many of them get it. If you have an intuitive, easy-to-use, and relatively performant CRUD, full-stack framework in Golang, I guarantee you it's going to be a hit.
My lightweight web/networking apps these days are written in Golang. The beauty of it is that it's so easy to get deployed. Golang's builtin http handling is rock solid. There's no need for gunicorn, uwgsi, etc.
About Python, I know many people are still on Python 2, but to me it's legacy. Many people completely moved on to Python 3. That makes web2py very outdated.
The notion of Web3py is still a good idea *right now*. But by the time you can deliver Web3py, it is likely that it will be technologically outdated.
So, there it is. Web2Go. You've learned many lessons from having built web2py. These experience will make your CRUD full-stack framework very meaningful.
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- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
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It is based on bottle + gevent + gunicorn + rethinkdb + pydal + vue.js +some code ported from web2py (templates, helpers, validators, internationalization, scheduler)
Unlike web2py it uses modules not execfile and this makes it 10x faster (this part is done) and code it no longer interpreted at every request. Only on change.Routes are declared using decorators like in bottle and flask.It will use rethinkdb for storing errors, sessions, and anything user defined. This allows to scale horizontally. Nothing gets stored on the file system any more. Ever. Unless you choose to use sqlite for your app.No more forms and grids generated server side. Possible and will probably backport SQLFrom and Gid but will discourage it. The default client will be in vue.js. The forms and grids will be generated client-side based on self-documenting APIs. This work must be done. It is not terribly hard just pedantic.It has a redesigned admin. Not necessarily better but leaner. This part is also done although it may need restyling.I am ditching a lot of the web2py auth logic. Nobody really uses groups and permissions and the way it is done may not be the best way for everybody. Instead I will default to auth0 integration.From a developer prospective the code will look very similar and I will be able to recycle 90% of the documentation.The problems are that web2py grew a bit bloated and typical programming patterns have shifted from postbacks to single page apps with form submission via API. Also web2py does not provide enough tools for scaling since uses filesystem by default. The new version will do less then current web2py but will remedy those issues and make it easier to make responsive and scalable apps.I am conflicted. I could use help to get this done quicker but I do not want to post something that is half done people are unhappy with. What I would like may not be what everybody likes but I am mostly building this in a way that would work well for myself and share in the hope it is useful to others. BSD license.If you are willing to help before the code is made public feel free to contact me personally.Massimo
On Sunday, 28 May 2017 11:47:49 UTC-5, Oasis Agano wrote:
Is the new framework web3py if so when is the official launch?
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 2:32:01 AM UTC+2, Relsi Maron wrote:
Hi Andrea,
Yes, there will be a future for web2py!
Web2py will remain being what it is. :)
A new version, with support for Python 3, is about to come. Even though Massimo is developing a new framework, Web2py will continue to exist - with the same purpose for which it was created: to teach development.
Cheers.
Em sábado, 27 de maio de 2017 04:11:02 UTC-3, Andrea Fae' escreveu:
--
Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.com/book (Documentation)
- http://github.com/web2py/web2py (Source code)
- https://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/list (Report Issues)
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My plan is this....
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As a user, it looks nice but has horrible usability.
- Simply moving the cursor to the wrong place can slide the whole dashboard several centimeters to the side.
- Activating the right panel scrolls the left panel trigger as if going *beyond* the left border of the screen. You have to hide the right panel if you want to unhide the left.
- In general, elements needlessly shifting from under your cursor using sluggish JavaScript animations.
There's nice things here, sure, but please don't learn UX from this.
On Thursday, November 15, 2018 at 3:44:59 PM UTC-6, 黄祥 wrote:perhaps can learn from this:best regards,stifan
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