also

[Jeanette Learned]

Also to clarify a point, allocation of hours must always been to full time teacher programs first.

Part time teachers are only used when all full time teacher hours are allocated. We did not choose to cut part time teacher hours, there just is not the money in the budget to pay for them.

It has been the free choice of all part time teachers (and some full time, like me) to find jobs where there is more reliable funding that TAFE at the moment

The issue you should be complaining about is a funding model that makes forward planning very difficult. For example, how does a college allocate hours and teachers to a class in the future when they don't know what the budget for that class will be UNTIL students enrol?

Think about the logistics of asking a part time teacher to teach on such a class.

Jeanette

[Jeanie Rosebug]

Jeanette - and group.

I'm happy to have points clarified. The more information and discussion here the better - this is after all sharing the problems with the system and discussing what needs addressing: But please do not tell me what i "should" be complaining about. It strikes me that anyone who was aware of problems in the system should have, or could have been complaining - and yet quite frankly there seems to be a whole lot of silence and a whole lot of protecting one's own interests and sometimes actually shutting down complaints in order to do just that. 

I'm speaking as a former student, and as the partner and friend of other students and the parent of students. Teachers may well have the free choice to seek employment elsewhere but meanwhile student options are being completely trashed. 

Mr Barilaro and his political party think that its best to have more and more choices between a whole bunch of private and public colleges competing for private dollars - not competing on standards or on skills. Yes - i think essentially we agree. Have one, good system and put the funds into education rather than into promotion, administration and profits for a a whole lot of smaller companies providing the same thing ( and we all know that limiting the product means bigger margins) But unfortunately, the funds are being pissed away in this fashion and the students that i know ( can't speak for others) have watched "the product" at BMTafe become less and less worthwhile. 

and part of that is - as uncomfortable as it is to say it - is that the material that students are there to learn wasnt being taught at BM tafe.

And accordingly many students have moved on and - even Mr Barilaro is aware of this, he states it in his letter - student numbers are dropping. 

What's more, as in Sam's complaint - material was listed on the timetable and STILL not taught and he was passed on it. It was even implied by management that his attempts to access classes when this material was taught - was trying to somehow put something over on tafe by attending classes when on material that he "should" have known. Which seems a very bizarre approach to education - isnt the idea to make sure the students know and understand the material, not to be exposed to it for a fee and then told they have had their money's worth? But then maybe Tafe simply thought that could get more money when students have to repeat, even thought they didnt provide the goods the first time. And to some extent, they have managed this because students have been forced to go to mt druitt and re-do the course at their own expense. 

I guess the logical response to your answer is to say that full time teachers should be hired/fired or re-trained based on their ability to provide tuition in the kind of competitive skills that employers in industry are advertising for.

In actual fact it makes more sense to have part time or casual staff that are currently also working part time in industry, and to prioritise SKILLS. A head teacher should know enough to ensure that they have part time staff able to do this. Maybe they need less full time staff and more part time/casual staff in order to ensure this is the case. 

 We have been told in other discussions that the "management" side of the course was coming as a smart and skilled directive. If that is the case, then why arent you all complaining? Because there are hundreds and hundreds of management and business courses for people who want management and business. The value of a technical course is having a technical skill at the end of it. 

Check out Seek - entry level positions require actual technical skills - for web alone they ask for jquery and code libraries. bootstrap. web security, ecommerce, analytics ( which involves javascript). adobe suite. If you aren't teaching them, then why should students bother?

 

 The funding arrangements sound ridiculous. So why is Tafe not proposing better options and putting them forwards? Why is it up to the students to commit their time and money in the hope that Tafe might or might not come through for them? - why are students supposed to be the ones carrying the burden of risk here? if tafe messes up, all those full time teachers still have their jobs. Yet the students may well be paying off loans for a course that has failed to provide them to get work in their industry because they DON"T HAVE THE REQUIRED TECHNICAL SKILLS?

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[James Schleibs]

Again to clarify an assumption you made above regarding technical skills not being taught at the college, during my studies I have had completed units where substantial components include not only javascript, but also bootstrap, jquery, adobe suite and as I understand the diploma also has several units that build on these skills, also an individual unit focusing on e-commerce.

[Jeanie Rosebug]

Can I ask who is teaching these? Because students from two years back actually managed an entire semester with no coding at all.

[Jeanie Rosebug]

What's more adobe suite was ditched around then too when the teacher hours were cut. This complaint isn't based on "an assumption" but the state if the course when students were there. If its improved then that is fantastic news.

On 21/04/2016 9:06 PM, "James Schleibs" <jb.sc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jeanie Rosebug]

Actually James, I'm sitting here looking at the 2016 timetables and there is no adobe suite, and most of the technical subjects are marked tba, some maybe stage 2. You do get database and structured query language. Which subject was teaching bootstrap?

On 21/04/2016 9:06 PM, "James Schleibs" <jb.sc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[James Schleibs]

Create Storyboards in certificate IV covered bootstrap.

[Jeanie Rosebug]

Sounds comprehensive.

[James Schleibs]

I found it adequate.

[Sam Asschers]

Adequate is not JOB READY as claimed by the TAFE slogan!!!

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From: web-design...@googlegroups.com <web-design...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of James Schleibs <jb.sc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 22 April 2016 12:04 PM
To: web-design...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [webdesign] also