The Highland - new thunderstorm capital of UK

[xmetman]

I'm sure that climatologically the north of Scotland wasn't particularly well known for thunderstorms.

In my eight years as an observer at Kinloss I can't remember a single one.

In the past I can recollect that the Met Office provided with monthly LTA of days of thunder across the UK like this one.

I've searched but I can't find them with the other climate charts here perhaps you know where they've been hidden?

This summer seems to be in a whole different league and may be a sign of how summers in the future will play out.

This week there's not only a thunderstorm warning out for Monday, but there's also one out for Tuesday and Wednesday - aren't we lucky.

[Freddie]

On Monday, 5 August 2019 10:17:28 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:

I've searched but I can't find them with the other climate charts here perhaps you know where they've been hidden?

There is a footnote on the page you linked to:

Monthly maps of days of thunder are not available after December 2010.

Perhaps owing to the sparsity of manual observations these days (both in space and time) that a decision was made not to generate maps of days of thunder because they would consist of incomplete data.  I guess a reasonable proxy could be generated using sferics, but they wouldn't be directly comparable to past maps.  Who knows - perhaps something of that order is in the pipeline?

--
Freddie
Dorrington
Shropshire
115m AMSL
http://www.hosiene.co.uk/weather/
Stats for the month so far: https://www.hosiene.co.uk/weather/statistics/latest.xlsx

[Julian Mayes]

Thunderstorm frequency has been moving north for decades - in the South east we don't seem to get the big, widespread storms of past decades. I'm sure this is reflected in summer rainfall trends too but I won't dwell on that as it is something of a hobbyhouse of mine. I have a new hobbyhorse though - while we are looking at the MO site, the awful new maps. For example.......

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-synoptic-and-climate-stations

Met stations are not shown by actual location but by a kind of spidery schematic. I've just hit on three of the group buttons in Wales - Pembrey Sands and Manorbier are in the sea (even the causal viewer might be a trifle suspicious about that!) and Libanus and Velindre are the wrong way around. Flat Holm (the island in the Bristol Channel) has moved inland to north Cardiff. Shoreham Airport and Wiggonholt are the wrong way around too - maybe its just chance that they would be correct if transposed. 

I feel yet another visit to the feedback page is called for. I wonder if the map's been set up as a kind of joke. 

Julian    

[Julian Mayes]

And as a PS, here's another howler. Clicking on London gives High Beech - only it's written as High Beach.  Funny place for a beach - location in Epping Forest should be a clue.   

J   

[George in Edinburgh]

I first visited there in the 1950's and later lived close to High Beach for nearly 40 years. That's how I always knew the spelling, the FSC Centre uses that spelling as does the Ordnance Survey. There are deposits of sand and gravel which can give the impression of a beach type environment along the crest of the Epping Forest Ridge.

However  maps from the 1920's give us Beech and way back in the 19th century we have Beach again. I notice that some websites such as TripAdvisor use both spellings in the same article.

Apparently in 1670 it was known as Highbeach 'because of the beech trees'.

George

[xmetman]

Thanks Freddie for pointing that out - the application I wrote a few years ago does tile them quite nicely - that's if you select 2010 or before - here is the monthly anomaly charts for 2001.

The application has downloaded over 13,000 charts in it's time, yesterday I was checking to see if they still looked like the ones online and noticed that many in the more recent years had been refined.

I do have an old application that scans for present weather WW=91..99 or W1W2=9 from SYNOPs that I wrote about 20 years ago but no longer use. 

I used it to produce maps of days of thunderstorms across the world.

The reason why it's now defunct is because of the advent of the AWS which don't report thunderstorms and that's probably why the Met Office stopped producing statistics of days of thunder.

What I'm really after though are monthly/seasonal/annual LTA charts (1961-1990 or 1981-2010) for total precipitation/mean temperature/total sunshine/days of frost/days of snow and days of thunder if you see what I mean - which seem to be conspicuous by their absence.

[Freddie]

On Monday, 5 August 2019 13:34:11 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:

What I'm really after though are monthly/seasonal/annual LTA charts (1961-1990 or 1981-2010) for total precipitation/mean temperature/total sunshine/days of frost/days of snow and days of thunder if you see what I mean - which seem to be conspicuous by their absence.

They were available as recently as April, as I worked out my Dorrington averages from them.  I'll have a scout around.

[Freddie]

On Monday, 5 August 2019 13:46:53 UTC+1, Freddie wrote:

On Monday, 5 August 2019 13:34:11 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:

What I'm really after though are monthly/seasonal/annual LTA charts (1961-1990 or 1981-2010) for total precipitation/mean temperature/total sunshine/days of frost/days of snow and days of thunder if you see what I mean - which seem to be conspicuous by their absence.

They were available as recently as April, as I worked out my Dorrington averages from them.  I'll have a scout around.

Try this link: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-climate-averages/

Select a site (any site will do) then click the "Average maps" tab (underneath the map with the climat sites on it).  You will then be presented with a different map with options to the left.  I had a quick flick through the options and "Days of thunder" are available for 1961-1990an 1971-2000, but not for 1981-2010.

[Julian Mayes]

George, I stand corrected, thank you for the historical background. I'd never seen it written High Beach so the alternative meaning had never occurred to me.   It brings to mind the sandy deposits on the Surrey Hills. 

Julian  

[xmetman]

Thanks Freddie - I thought that I was going mad I knew they must have gone somewhere!

I thought it was low - less than 4 days of thunder on average in our part of the world.

[xmetman]

The sky has got very convective in the last hour and at the moment is full of CB's

[xmetman]

Just noticed the phrase "climate cariables" in that screenshot...

[xmetman]

That's another day of thunder for us.

The thunderstorm is a fair bit north of us but is sounded like a clatter of falling dominoes as it echoed down the strath.

I quite like the new Blitzortung web application...

[Freddie]

On Monday, 5 August 2019 14:57:09 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:

Just noticed the phrase "climate cariables" in that screenshot...

Yes, I spotted that.  Perhaps I should mention it :-)

[Metman2012]

They've not been the same since they stopped me proof reading the pages - I think I found too many typos!

[Tudor Hughes]

I don't think the locations at the ends of the spiders' legs are meant to represent reality but merely that each of the stations are "sort of in this area".  In that respect the map is highly misleading to anyone who doesn't know the area and to someone who does, simply pointless.  The whole thing is nonsense; an insult. 

Tudor Hughes

    

[Len]

The one in Cornwall puts Newquay on the south coast and Cardinham on the north coast.

Newquay is noted for its surf, not so good on the south coast.

It's just sloppy graphics and/or ignorance on the part of UKMO.

Len

Not a beech bum

:-)

[Jack Harrison]

The effects are now apparent downstream  I have never seen the River Findhorn at Forres so full.  A tributory, the Mosset Burn is also most impressive.

Jack

[xmetman]

A friend of mine took this earlier today

[Graham Easterling]

The one in Cornwall puts Newquay on the south coast and Cardinham on the north coast.

It also puts Culdrose near St Ives, and Camborne near Culdrose.

It would be good if they put just 1 place in Cornwall in vaguely the right place, no chance.

Graham

Penzance

[Julian Mayes]

It would be good if they put just 1 place in Cornwall in vaguely the right place, no chance.

I'm glad it's not just me who doesn't get this.    :)  

I blame my Geography degree.  

Julian  

[Graham Easterling]

Ah, a fellow geography graduate. Careless inaccuracies on maps are so annoying. 

I once pointed out to the MetO that they had different forecasts for St Mary's Heliport, and St Mary's airport, which were exactly the same place. They said the forecasts were correct as different grid references were used. You couldn't make it up. Out of interest I asked for the grid references, no reply. It's OK now, no helicopter service.

Graham

Penzance