Why no Ravensworth in reports?

[Ken Cook]

Hi, All,
Ravensworth frost hollow, North Yorkshire (and close to Copley)

http://www.weathercast.co.uk/world-weather/weather-stations/obsid/99173.html

is often one of the coldest MetO sites but never appears in the daily extremes. Like Copley it appears in the Daily Summaries but only after a few months.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/library/publications/daily-weather-summary

I would expect it to be in the daily lists as it is AWS with real-time returns to MetO. Any ideas? Last night was 4.6C there - perhaps the coolest in UK and it topped around 26.3C today. There have been several other 20C+ ranges there this week.
Durham Observatory doesn't appear either. Just sticking up for NE England - no one else will!

Another 26C+ Copley today, another 16hr+ sun and now approaching 210hr for the month, but more of that on Sunday 1st when all my figures are in (:0))
Ken
Copley
Teesdale

[Julian Mayes]

Nice to know you can rely on MeteoGroup for data, Ken (aka 'weathercast').  :)  

Of course, MG gets the data from the MO anyway. Not sure where you are looking when you refer to the daily extremes. Maybe some sites take a while to be verified?   It is a shame as some people seem to be unaware that climatological stations exist - as they are just used to seeing lists of SYNOP sites. I'd better not say who these people might be!  This should improve now as more climate sites become automated - a recent example is Ross on Wye, a site with a nice history and location.    

 I had not seen the new style DWS before, thanks for link.  Maps have rather limited range of stations (I preferred the scruffy handwritten maps of the DWS in the 80s and 90s!).  At least the extremes seem to be from the full range of sites.   

I think Durham may have been a bit erratic recently - it certainly has gaps in the Weather Log in Weather - no April data showing in the current issue for example, though I'm sure you will have noticed that.....

Cheers   Julian  

[Ken Cook]

Julian,

MeteoGroup is always a good source for me!!

As you suggest, the climatological stations are not used for the daily reports, only the SYNOP sites - such a shame when the data is readily available from the AWS stations. Ravensworth has been operational for nearly 20 years and on 2nd December 2010 recorded -20.0C, first -20C in England since January 1987.

It was, as I suspected, much lower than any SYNOP site last night and this is not unusual.

As for the Durham University site, the problem was a power cut which lasted for many weeks! Professor Tim Burt, now retired, noticed this from his home many miles away in Somerset and sorted it out. I think the current university staff are not as interested as Tim was in his long time there!

I have an awful feeling that this site that began before 1850 will soon be no more and I really hope that I am wrong.

Ken

[Julian Mayes]

Ken, 

The Durham Observatory situation needs watching.  As you say, a huge loss if it did go, all for a few checks on the power supply!   Just think of some of the poeple who have used those records over the years and nurtured the site, as it were. 

Julian  

[John Hall]

If it goes, Gordon Manley will be turning in his grave. 

[Dan Grey]

It's just not that simple. (I'm ex-MO, and was discussing this with a current employee yesterday.)

I'm not convinced any one person in the MO has a complete understanding of their own networks, at least anyone who's willing to do anything useful with the data. Beyond the synop sites are a range of other observatories. Some are Climate Data Loggers, others Voluntary Observer sites. The CDLs are, iirc, all now AWSs, and all report at least hourly. They usually don't report all the standard parameters, and often have non-standard siting (e.g. a 5m anemometer mast). The VO sites at the most basic level depend upon volunteer observers (sometimes members of the public but often public bodies like councils and the Forestry Commission) submitting monthly data via the WOW website, but I think a number of those sites actually have MMS equipment (the Met Office data logging, transmission, and collation kit) and are reporting in near-real-time, like the synop and CDL sites. Bizarrely, there is no single ID number used across all types of site. Instead there are at least four different identifiers in use, each with a different length.

All the data goes through electronic real-time quality control. There's also manual checking of the data (mainly as make-work for staff in small remote MO outposts like Camborne). It all ends up in a massive database called MIDAS which is expensive and slow to query. What's for sure is that the data is not used to its full potential. It's a right mess, but "it's the way it's always been done", and no managers are informed enough to realise the potential value.

Certainly MeteoGroup makes much better use of the data which it receives from the MO, as exemplified by WeatherCast. Guess who makes more money from observation data... I suspect MeteoGroup gets its data via remote access to MIDAS on a commercial basis. They then use the data in ways the MO can't or won't, and profit accordingly.

Dan