Comments said by other NA and AA members when you mention We Agnostic themed meetings

[CraigG]

Hi Gang, I am Craig and I am an voracious addict and lose control of
myself around crack. That being said, glad to be a part of this group.
I live in Washington, DC, I am 44 years old, and go to all sorts of
meetings (AA/NA/WE Agnostics, etc.) all around DC and southern
Maryland. But i prefer the We Agnostic meetings because of these 2
beliefs I hold dearly and strongly:

1) I do believe in a "power" of some kind I can connect to, a "group
consciousness" of a sort I can barely describe or understand. I don't
have all the answers. However: I want to give myself credit, and pat
MYSELF on the back for keeping that frickin' crack pipe out of hands
for the past 3 years. It was and is difficult; and i am proud of my 3
years of hard work. I can entertain the notion that maybe connecting
to a "group consciousness" helped me along the way, but is not the
major factor I feel in my recovery. Hard work is the major cause, and
I did that work thank you very much.

2) This belief of this Paternalistic deity up in the sky tinkering
with our lives I feel is flawed and irrational. I feel it stems from
ancient religions, and it might be time to update our beliefs and
values when it comes to the unexplainable and unknowable. I humbly
submit this belief is holding us back spiritually.

I feel it is just time to grow and progress. I am not saying these
people who believe this way are wrong, but just like we shifted at one
time from multiple deities to monotheism, it is time for the next age
to enter. And one day that age may also be replaced by another as we
grow and learn new things.

Comments?
Thanks for letting me rant!
Craig from DC

[D Skomer]

Hi Craig,

Congratulations on putting the pipe down.  I'm fortunate that I never picked it up...who knows what might have happened?  Well, yes we DO know what would have happened.  That's why I always think the drink through...because the drink will lead to drugs, sex and incomprehensible demoralization.

I can relate to your thoughts about the very human quest of moving through various stages in our development from primitive animism, to polytheism, to monotheism, to whatever it is that comes next.  Unfortunately, I remain concerned about what might come next given recent inventions like Mormonism and Scientology.

Personally, I have no need to try and "fill in the gaps" with something beyond the real world.  "Spirituality" is a very human experience.  We don't have to make up any kind of "supernatural" power.  The universe is all there is.  It is powerful.  We are part of it.  AND, it is our responsibility to make this world the best it can be for ourselves and one another.  We find the wisdom and the strength to do this from each other.  That's what I take home from the fellowship of AA after a meeting!

In terms of a philosophical worldview, I am a Humanist.  Humanism is what I DO "believe".  If you will allow me, I'd like to share something...see:

http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

Debbie

On Jul 21, 2010, at 4:27 PM, CraigG wrote:

Hi Gang, I am Craig and I am an voracious addict and lose control of

myself around crack. ...

[CraigG]

Hi Debbie, nice to meet you.

I consider myself a humanist also, that link you gave me is great; I
agree with virtually everything.

I also agree that Nature and the real world, is full of magnificent
and amazing things. Why people need to spend inordinate amount of time
delving in the "mystical" puzzles me. After spending years in churches
reading about 2,000 year old goat herder stories, I got nothing out of
it. After one day in the woods, I grew more spiritually than the
previous ten years.

What is your experience at non-We Agnostic meetings when you mention
We Agnostics? Do you get snide remarks and comments putting it down? I
do.
Thanks,
Craig

[D Skomer]

Hi Craig,

I live in Southern California which makes a big difference.  I remember hearing some sharp intakes of air once at a meeting when I made some comments about being an atheist, but that is the extent of it.  I also remember "shocking" one person who was interviewing me to be her sponsor when I mentioned that I was an atheist and that I wouldn't be getting on my knees to pray with her.  She stopped coming to the one meeting we both attended.  Since I know most of the people in my meetings pretty well, there isn't much I can say to shock people anymore.

I must admit that the biggest struggle I have at meetings is in my own head.

1) I struggle to "have no opinion on outside issues"

2) I struggle to "live and let live"

3) I struggle to "take what I like and leave the rest"

4) I struggle to speak from MY OWN experience, strength and hope while not commenting on the opinions and experiences of others

5) I struggle to sit in my seat, calmly, while other people say STUPID things about the nature of the universe and make ridiculous claims about their superstitious practices!

6) I am irritated with the institution of AA which seems to have little willingness to consider the agnostic/atheist position as a valid endpoint in the "spiritual" journey it encourages.

Still, I must vent occasionally, which is why this google group is helpful.  I also have a few atheist friends whom I can complain to. It helps, as we all know, to laugh about things that really get us tied up in knots, and my godless friends allow me to do just that!  I am also VERY involved in the secular groups in my area, as well as national secular groups. (American Humanist Association, Freedom from Religion Foundation, Secular Coalition for America, Atheist Alliance International, Center for Inquiry, etc.)  These groups allow me to be as open about my lack of belief as AA allows me to be about my alcoholism.  I've also taken the same approach to service that I learned and developed in AA into these freethinking groups.  One atheist sharing with another, etc., and I started a "Recovering from Religion" group in my town.  (Based upon the work by Darrel Ray, author of THE GOD VIRUS).

You've reminded me that for my own serenity I need to get to some new meetings.  I do start building resentments with people (again, something I tend to manufacture in my own head) that love to promote their religious beliefs while sharing.

All the best to you!

Debbie