Noisey final spin cycle on H3

[lapoljo]

Hi,

I have a Kenmore H3 washer. During the last 4-5 minutes of the spin cycle (moving fast), it starts shaking and making a racket. At first I thought it was an off balance load, but I ran another light load and it did the same thing.

 

I have posted videos here...   http://youtu.be/cplkv14VVXU

One shows it running fast, shaking, during the last 4 minutes of cycle. The second shows it when it slows down during the last 2 minutes, and pans over to a poor shot of the belt, which appears to be fine.

I would appreciate any suggestions you can give.

thanks,

John Lapolla

[amark...@hotmail.com]

Could be a number of things. I would first check the shocks and anything that holds the tub together. It sounds like something is hitting together.

[big...@yahoo.com]

A couple of thoughts.

Can you confirm that it starts to make the noise as it speeds up for the last (fastest) part of the spin cycle?

Check the inner drum for debris, it sounds as though it is something hitting something else once each revolution but only at the fastest part of the cycle. Something like a nail or screw could be caught in one of the holes of the inner drum and fouling a part of the outer drum at maximum speed. Wires from ladies bras' could also have a similar effect although the noise from them is usually constant.

It could be a fractured spider but I have never heard one quite like that. To check for this reach in through the door and try to lift the inner drum vertically with respect to the outer drum, there should be virtually no movement. Then turn the drum through 90 degrees and repeat the test, do this twice more turning the drum in the same direction each time. This will mean that you will have performed the test at four points during one complete revolution of the drum. Approximately equal movement in all 4 positions indicates failing bearings, (which I do not believe you have) greater movement in 1 or 2 positions indicates a fractured spider.

Your machine was manufactured by Whirlpool and is essentially a re-badged "Duet". There is a 'Shop Manual' for this family of washers, it also applies to their 'Kenmore' cousins, at:

https://secured.whirlpool.com/Service/SrvTechAdm.nsf/2cd44500d572193285256a45004fd9d6/eab852a13fbc842085256aa200643dd6/$FILE/Duet%20Job%20Aid.pdf

this may prove useful in your quest for a cure.

Good Luck

Biguggy

[lapoljo]

Thanks, biguggy and amark,

 

Yes, it runs fine just tumbling and during the rest of the normal cycle. It is only during the last 5 minutes or so (top speed) when it starts shaking and making a racket.

 

I was ready to order shocks, being that was my first guess, but now I'll wait and tear into it a bit more tonight and actually inspect the shocks, look for debris in the tub, ESPECIALLY one of those damn bobby pins that my daughter tends to leave in her laundry. I'll make sure to do the bearing/spider test you suggested.

 

Will report back when I know more.

thanks,

John Lapolla

[amark...@hotmail.com]

Thank you biguggy for the thought suggestions and all the help you have been giving.

[Yummy]

I had the same problem exactly as yours,,  was the bearings and seal.... I called whirlpool and told them the drum was leaking at the back and the shaft worn out, they sent me all free a new ss steel drum complete with spider and the 2 halfve and gasket to repair myself.... just keep bugging them they sent me and said no more warantee because I installed myself,,, Just like new now...   go for it....

[greendrake]

 I have Kenmore He4T and it was doing the same thing, making a bad grinding noise and shaking during the high speed spin cyle.  Tore it apart and replaced the bearings and seal.  Put it together and fired it up and it ran great until the high speed spin cycle started... Same noise.  Thinking I had botched the install I started to tear it apart.  Fired it up with the all the covers off to see if I could pinpoint the noise.  Turns out the impeller on the pump was going bad, and it was only making a racket during the high speed spin cycle which must be the only time the pump is running.  So maybe check that before you tear the bearings and seal out...

[biguggy]

Good call,in my opinion, with respect to the noise but that does not explain the vibration. It would seem that you had two defects. Did the vibration disappear after you renewed the bearings and seal?

[lapoljo]

Posted earlier today, but I think I screwed the post up:

6:48 PM

Just pulled the top, front and rear covers off. Amazingly, inside the door seal, I found a sock, bobby pin, and silver bracelet that my wife has been looking for months!

 

The spider looks fine. I checked for inside tub movement in all directions and it is minimal and equal each way.

 

None of the shocks appear broken, but two have a slight bit of oil at the base. I plugged it back in and ran the spin cycle with the tub empty, and the unit is quiet and smooth. Threw in one wet towel, and it vibrates a bit, but only when it is at highest speed, with about 4 minutes left in the cycle.

 

I am thinking of replacing all 4 shocks. I figure after 10-12 years without a problem, $120 is too much to invest.

 

Any thoughts?

thanks,

John

[greendrake]

The shaking was the same after the bearing/seal replacement, I think it was normal before I just mentally associated it with the noise... The seal seamed fine and there was nothing noticeably wrong with the old bearings, but they probably would have gone eventually so I wasn't too worried about the money/labor replacing them.  It was definitely hard to tell the noise was coming from the pump impeller until I pulled the front lower panel off and stuck my ear down there with the machine in high spin mode.

[biguggy]

The spider is the piece that connects the inner drum to the pulley. You cannot see it until the outer drum is dismantled and the inner drum, complete with spider, are removed from the rear section of the outer drum. Here are some pictures of ones that have failed:

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2009/10/28/front-loading-washer-corrosion-contagion-a-menagerie-of-metallic-misery/

Please note I do not believe the corrosion is due to galvanic action but hat is another story.

Good Luck

Biguggy

[Offroader]

On Monday, November 26, 2012 8:47:27 PM UTC-8, lapoljo wrote:

John
I watched your video and your machines problem is a mirror image of mine. What was the final fix.
Appreciate any help....
Dave

[Offroader]

[Offroader]

On Monday, December 3, 2012 2:51:08 PM UTC-8, Offroader wrote:

[amark...@hotmail.com]

There can be a number of things that it could be. Bearings and seal, spider, shaft, something that is stuck somewhere, bad shocks. The only way to know is you have to tear into it. Keep us posted and what you find?

[lapoljo]

SO HERE'S THE REST OF THE STORY...

Dismantled the entire washer, right down to splitting the outer plastic tub and removing the drum and bearings. Really not that difficult thanks to all the advice and videos online.

At first I could not see anything wrong. The bearings seemed smooth and tight, and the Spider seemed OK, but covered in sludge near the center. I scraped off as much of the gunk as I could, and I still couldn't see any cracks. I put the drum on the floor, opening down and tried to flex the shaft in different directions, and the spider didn't budge.

 

Finally I took the drum and spider over to my wash tub and rinsed some of the gunk off of it with the hose from the wahser... and there it was.. a fine crack, with an actual hole right through the casting near the base.

 

SO.... now my dilema is it will cost about $500 parts to fix it. $340 for a new drum and spider,$140 for Front outer tub (edge near the door got wiped out by the friction from the inner drum banging into it at high speed) and seal.  I can buy a new washer for about $400 more.

 

Unless someone can recommend a source for just a new spider, I think I'm gonna buy a new one and part out the dead one.

 

Any thoughts guys??

 

thanks,

Jolhn

[amark...@hotmail.com]

What is the model number for your machine, we can start there. I would also see for sure if your parts are under warranty. We can look around and see if there is someone parting out one on ebay or craigslist near you or any place that might sell parts without having to buy parts you really don't need.

[lapoljo]

Mine is a 110.42832201 Serial # CSM 4602300.

 

I did a quick search of Craigslist for Metro Detroit. Could not find anything. Could not find any parts on eBay that I cannot by from RepairClinic (30 minutes from my home)

 

Any way to tell the actual age from the numbers? My wife and I are estimating we bought this about 10-12 years ago.

 

Appreciate any advice.

John

[amark...@hotmail.com]

Here is a link to the spider or support http://www.appliancepartspros.com/whirlpool-support-w10181639-ap4324795.html, you may be able to find other parts for your machine through them also. Appliancepartspros.com

[lapoljo]

Thanks, but unfortunately the photo for that part does not match the part I have. I've attached a photo I found of a failed part that matches mine. I circled the key differences. My drive pully slides onto a shaft end with flats, not splines. My support attaches to the outer rim of the tub with two round head Torx screws for each spoke.

 

I'm looking to see if I can find a different support.

John

[biguggy]

The serial number indicates where and when built as per page 1-2 of the manual for the 'Duet' at:

https://secured.whirlpool.com/Service/SrvTechAdm.nsf/2cd44500d572193285256a45004fd9d6/eab852a13fbc842085256aa200643dd6/$FILE/Duet%20Job%20Aid.pdf

From that I would guess that yours was built in Germany in  the 46th week of 2002, but I am not positive.

For a more definitive answer you could post your question at:

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/questions

The Owners Manual that pulls up for your machine at:

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/lis_pdf/OWNM/L0533141.pdf

Gives a limited lifetime warranty on the stainless steel drum and a 10 year warranty on the outer plastic drum, you should be guided by what the manual that came with your machine states.

Without the warranties I would tend to agree with you on your appreciation of the economics renew/repair.

Good Luck

[lapoljo]

Thanks Biguggy, You have been a wonderful help. I am trying to get Sears to repair under warranty. Will post more once the solution is final.

Greatly appreciate you sharing your wisdom and knowledge.

J

[biguggy]

lapoljo  - You are welcome and thank you for your feed back. As I stated earlier I have never seen one with a fractured spider make a noise like that, the ones I have heard have all been worse. 

Thanks again I have learned something from your experience.

Regards

Biguggy

[lapoljo]

Well..I'm back with the next phase of my saga.

I called Sears Service on Dec 5th. It took a little patience, as I was transferred back and forth between Parts and Service TWICE. Finally reached the understanding that they will not just ship you parts. They will send out a Repair Tech to validate your situation.

 

Quick recap for other readers.. mine is a HE3 Duet. I had it completely torn down, and identified a cracked spider. The wobbling inner drum had rubbed the front edge of the plastic outer drum and melted it.

 

Made my calls on Wed, the Service Tech showed up early Friday. Really nice and helpful guy. Confrimed that the stainless steel inner drum and spider were under lifetime limited warranty, and the day I called, was the last day for the 10 year warranty on the outer drum, so he covered that too. He ordered the parts on the spot, then called the warehouse to make sure they were in stock. I should have them in 5 days.

 

He charged me $75 for the service call, which I expected. He offered to come back to reassemble it, but labor is not covered, and would have cost $300, so I declined. He also gave me a tube of lube for my bearing seal, showed me how to properly lube the inner land and wear surface, gave me a spare seal for the outer tub, just in case one wasn't included with the shipped part, and checked out a problem on my Duet dryer and advised me how to repair it.

 

All in all in all I'm pleased. Can't wait to get the parts and hopefully get it all working. Thanks again for all the guidance.

[lapoljo]

And...here's the rest of the story..

 

New ss inner tub (including new inner fins), and plastic front outer tub (with new edge seal) arrived a week later. My two bearings seemed fine, but I figured after 10 years of service, it was worth replacing them.  Went to my local Grainger's shop and they matched up replacements for $35 total. The seal was in great shape, so I didn't bother replacing. Carfeully lubed with the grease the Sears tech gave me.

 

Because of posts I read here about stuck bearings, I very lightly sanded the new shaft faces, as well as the bearing seats in the rear outer tub. Then gave each a very light coat of Never Seize.

 

Took my time re-assembling the entire unit. Bearings and seal all went together smoothly. Everything else was a snap. Only issue I ran into was the Nut that holds the drive pully on the shaft. (Keep your old one, becuase the new inner drum does not come with a nut) This is a "plastic lock" type nut, but it did not thread onto the shaft far enough for the shaft threads to engage the plastic lock ring. I double checked all fits, and that I had the nut fully tightened, but nothing seemed wrong. Upon closer examination, I could not see any indicators that the plastic had EVER been touched by threads, meaning this was a factory defect. (worng nut?)  Anyway.. I ran the washer two times, and the nut loosened and the pulley fell off. I ended up putting a few drops of "Loc-tight" on the threads and re-assembling.

 

Been running for a month now, finally all caught up on laundry and no problems.

 

Thanks again Biguggy and all the rest for the guidance. Saved me a ton!!

John

 

PS.. Given the $35 cost of bearings at Graingers, buying the parts off this site isn't a bad deal at all, especially if you need a new seal, or aren;t sure of your bearing needs.