Whirlpool duet motor or bearing problem?

[Frank]

Hi. I have a loud continual loud noise during the spin cycle only. Having researched eveybody says it is a bearings problem. So tonight I started disassembling the washer to do just that, but then when I came to take the motrr off I noticed black soot on the center shaft assembly and upper portion of the motor assembly. When I tuen the motor shaft manually I can hear rollers turning, nothing clunky, but I am wondering if a new motor shaft should be silent. My question is If my motor is starting to fail, could it be the culprit of the spin cycle noise? By the way, I have not undone the tub yet, but the spider wheel is super clean and the bearings fell snug, Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[Jerrod Sessler]

Frank-

It is possible that the motor could be failing.  It would be very uncommon but if the shaft does not turn silently and very smoothly then the motor is probably junk or close to it.

That does not mean that the bearings are not bad however.  But, if you determine that the motor is bad then it is easier to replace it and run it and see if you hear anything with the bearings.

I have never heard of this happening but your situation makes me wonder if there is a scenario where the water from the tub leaking could get into the motor and assist in shortening the life of the motor.

When you spin the drum, you usually will not be able to tell if the bearings are bad unless they are really damaged over a long period of time and have totally failed or if the spider has broken.

Jerrod

[Frank]

Thanks Jerrod for your quick response and advice, It seems to me that the motor shaft coudl be more silent when I turn it. I'll take the motor off today and bring it to a repair shop to get their advice on it. 

[Jerrod Sessler]

Frank,

If you grab the motor shaft when it comes off, you should be able to turn it and feel something like a fluid motion as you spin it.  If you hear any grinding or rubbing or if you feel anything catching then you should replace the motor or consider taking it apart and replacing the bearings inside the motor.  Not worth hooking it up outside of the machine and running it as it really won't make much noise unless it is under a load.  You can also "carefully" run the machine with the back panel off and listen to it.

Watch your fingers but try spinning the rear pulley when the belt is off also.  You should feel a similar feel where it spins with a bit of a fluid motion or feel.  There should be no grinding or noise.  It is really tough to hear anything with bad bearings inside the tub however.  Another thing you can do is go around to the front, open the door and reach in and push up and down on the metal drum to see if it raises and lowers.  Rotate it and 1/8 of a turn and do it again repeating this all the way around.  If it is not consistent all the way around then it could be a broken spider.  If is fairly consistent then it could be bad bearings.  If there is no movement then that is a good sign but still does not mean the bearings are good.

Jerrod

[Frank]

Jerrod,
The drum seems to turn consistently all around.
Also I decided to hook up the washer with water outside with the garden hose with the back panel off and had it go through the high speed spin cycle; this clearly revealed that the noise is really coming from the tub bearings, not the motor. So here we go for a complete disassembly..

[Jerrod Sessler]

That is a good test.  The repair is not that tough.  Have you ordered a repair kit yet?  If you have not then we can get it out before noon if you order right away.

http://www.yellowvanhandyman.com/washerrepair.aspx

Jerrod

[Frank]

ok, I'll order through your website now, I'm in Canada

[Frank]

order just sent

[Jerrod Sessler]

I made sure it went out this morning so you should have a tracking number in your email by tomorrow morning.  Canadian customs can sometimes be a pain and hold things up but hopefully it won't be too awful long.

Jerrod

[Frank]

Thanks Jerrod. Yes, I know I can get surprises from customs, broker fees, etc. I have taken the entire tub apart. I went to get some snap ring pliers and will proceed in taking out the bearings. The spider wheel was somewhat dirty but not rusted. There was some black grease though coming out from the seal and some around the shaft.

[Jerrod Sessler]

Frank-

You should have gotten the shipping tracking link by now.  Good luck with the repair and post here if you need help with anything.  Good news that your spider is in good shape.

Jerrod

[Frank]

Thanks I got the bearings and seal today in the mail. 

[Frank]

Hi Jerrod,

I got the bearings and sealer on and just reassembled. I am doing a test wash cycle. No leaks and cycle goes well except when it's supposed to kick into high speed spin towards the end and it does'nt. It just spins slowly till the end. I did notice a friction sound in the left and rigth slow speed spin in the back around the shaft and bearings, I checked my pictures I had took before dissambling and noticed that maybe the outer bearing was not in completely as well as snap ring. I tapped lightly with appropriate size socket and it seems to have gone in a little because as I slightly tapped on the snap ring it went snug into its place. But I can still hear a friction sound by turning the wheel by hand. If I take the spindle wheel off and spin the tub by hand it will turn really smooth and for many turns, but once I put the spindle back on and tighten the nut , turning the tub seems really stiff, Is that normal? Did I forget to do something ? 

[Frank]

Ok I decided to put it for another test cycle in the rinse/spin cycle only. It lasted 26 minutes. When 1 min was left and it hadn't kicjed in high speed spin I was downhearted, but just then it decided to go into full high speed, without the original noise I had! The only thing is it spinned for about 4-5 minutes but the time indicator remained at 1 min remaining. (??) Also there ware some white fumes coming thru the top back exhaust during high speed and when I opened the door there were some more white fumes coming out of the tub through the front door. I did lightly coat  the outer side of the bearings and the shaft during reassemly with silicone lubricant (brake lubricant). I guess that could be it, Also after the high speed sping the drum turns more smoothly, less stiff and no more friction sound. I guess werre back in business!

[washerr...@gmail.com]

Frank,
I read your last couple of messages.  I am not sure what the white smoke would be coming from.  That is rather odd as there should be nothing building up enough heat to cause any smoke.  It could be something like the assembly lube between the housing and the pulley I suppose but not from the bearings.

The problem is with the pulley.  Here is what happens.  The pulley is really cheap pot metal. The part that fits around the shaft gets irregular and it sort of flops around or goes onto the shaft too far.  There is no thrust bearing or mechanism for keeping the shaft from moving forward/backwards other than hitting things like the inside of the tub or, in this case, the pulley hitting the outside of the tube.  When I have seen this in the past, I have purchased a new pulley or created some sort of filler under the pulley to allow it to be tight (snug) without having to really reef down on the rear bolt.  I have also put a spacer or large washer in under the rear bolt.  I have also pounded a bit on the opening of the pulley to make it smaller and tighter.  I have also used silicone sealer or locktite on the threads of the rear bolt so that I do not have to tighten it as much as I normally would.  I have also ground part of the pulley off just to keep it from hitting the back of the tub.

If there is too much resistance in the spin then it will prevent the machine from ramping up to high when it should.  The motor just does not have enough power.

Jerrod

[Frank]

Jerrod,

I did another test cycle and this time no smoke at all and it went up to high speed again. The drum also spins well by hand without being stiff. The pully looked in good shapewhen I put it on and fit in snug, Thanks for your advice and prompt responses! We'll be doing a regular wash tommorrow and see how it goes.

[Frank]

Many washes from last post with no problems whatsover! Thanks again!