Re: De Khazaren

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Geiserik

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Nov 15, 2006, 11:29:57 AM11/15/06

to Waren de Katharen Khazaren ?

Khazaren (700-1016 nC)

Karaïtische Synagoge in Litouwen

Er heeft ooit een echt Joods Keizerrijk bestaan: Khazarië, van
700-1016nC in Zuid Rusland, tussen de Don en de Wolga. Al in de 5e eeuw
werden ze tussen de Gothen vorsten aan het hof van Atilla de Hun
gesignaleerd. Ook is er een reisverslag van de monnik van Dutmar uit de
volgende eeuw, die het over blonde mensen heeft, die op Gothen lijken.
Dit en teksten uit het boek van Mormon geven mij de overtuiging, dat de
Khazaren geen Turken waren, zoals de historici zeggen, maar Gothen.
Hun rijk, dat de Moslim expansie achter de Kaukasus hield, strekte zich
uit van de Donau tot de Kaspische Zee en van de Zwarte Zee tot ongeveer
Kiev. Er heerste godsdienstvrijheid en het opperste gerechtshof bestond
uit Christenen, Moslims en Joden. Deze Godsdiensten zijn om de beurt
met intervals van ongeveer 30 jaar staatsgodsdienst geweest, met als
voorloper waarschijnlijk het Manichese of Pauliciaanse geloof. De
bekering tot Jood van Kagan Bulan, na de zgn "Chazaarse polemieken" was
rond 740nC.
(De deelnemende Christelijke priester kan geen Pauliciaan geweest zijn,
omdat hij de boeken van Mozes als woord van God accepteerde).

De Khazaren gaven militaire steun aan de Maygaren bij hun inval in
Hongarije. Sindsdien was Cazzari de Europese naam voor de Khazaren.
Ook hun onderwerping van de Bulgaren en de anexatie van het Sasanietse
Albanie, toen nog in de Kaukasus in 629nC is voor deze studie van groot
belang.

Uiteindelijk werden ze in 1016 door de Russen en Byzantijnen
gezamenlijk verslagen en velen vluchtten naar de Noord-oostelijker
wonende, ingelijfde, Volgaren / Bulgaren, dat 5 jaar weerstand tegen de
gouden mongoolse horden bood en door Gengis Khan wijselijk
onafhankelijk gelaten werd als het Khanaat Kazan, dat ook al protectie
bood aan Joden en Paulicianen (Al dan niet Bogomils of Kathari
genoemd). De Karaitische Joden gingen ook westwaards naar Polen, waar
ze bekend werden als Askenazische Joden. De Manichese en Pauliciaanse
Christenen zwermden, volgens oude fragmenten uit de kerkgeschiedenis
als ketters=Ketzers=Khazars over Europa: Gazari en Cathari in Duitsland
en Frankrijk, Bogomielen (Bulgaars voor "Gods vrienden") in Bulgarije
en als Paterines in Italië. Zelfs de Albigenzen en Waldenzen zouden
dezelfde oorsprong hebben.

Geiserik

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Nov 18, 2006, 4:28:36 AM11/18/06

to Waren de Katharen Khazaren ?

Kevin Brooks, de beheerder van de beste internetsite over de Khazaren
www.khazaria schreef op mijn posting in het Engels op Engelstalige
geschiedenissite over Frankrijk:

Cathars have nothing to do with Khazars.

I have a collection of genetic data concerning Jewish populations at
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Here are some quotes from my page that relate to the issues raised
here:

# The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European
Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle
Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim
(Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world
is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.

# Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such

as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q
(typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).

# Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern
Europeans.

# Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.

# Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly
Israelites.

# The Cohen Modal Haplotype is found among many Jewish populations of
the world, including Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and the Bene Israel of
India.

# The Cohen Modal Haplotype, which belongs to haplogroup J, was a
component of the ancient Israelite population, and especially common
among the Cohens (priests of the Temple in Jerusalem).

You can read more in the articles I link to at Khazaria.com, as well as

in Chapter 10 of the Second Edition of my book "The Jews of Khazaria".
I think you'll find all the answers you're seeking there.

Kevin Brook

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Robert Cohen wrote:
> Jews--as other peoples--are products of diffusion & absorption.
> My overall point: Jews/Hebrews have apparently from
> pre-Biblical/Biblical times consisted of various native Middle Eastern
> tribes or amalgamations of peoples.
> Diffusion & absorption reders to both genetics and culture.

> That purported DNA link of Yeminite Cohanim & Polish Cohanim
> can simultaneously also be true.
> [...]
> Some oriental or sephardi called "Yeminite Jews"--relatively more
> insular & isolated--are seemingly what (some, percentage?) of
> the "original Hebrews" resemble.
> [...]
> If you are fairly well-read in DNA literature, please discuss
> some ideas/knowledge/new findings/confirmations that are of interest,
> especially about the Jews, please.

Reageren » Dit bericht beoordelen:

Kevin Brook wrotes:

> Cathars have nothing to do with Khazars.

Yes, the name comes from the Christian Khazars, the Paulicians.

> I have a collection of genetic data concerning Jewish populations at
> http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Why you think I am the only one, who do not consult www.khazaria.com
before launching a conflicting theory. You did not read my entry 1 , no

> Here are some quotes from my page that relate to the issues raised here:

This string and Entry no 1 is not about Jews, but Khazar Christian
Paulicians.

> # The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European
> Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle
> Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim
> (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world
> is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.

This string and theory has nothing to do with the silly question wether

Khazars were real Jews

> # Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such
> as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q
> (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).

I am not interested in Jews, my question is, How did the Cathar
Christians got their name ? The answer is from Khazar Christians, the
Paulicians.

> # Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern
> Europeans.

No the first Jews in my town came with the Dutch when they were driven
out of Brazil and they were Sefarcic Jews.

> # Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.

What do they have to do with Cathar Christians

> # Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly
> Israelites.
Nice for them

> # The Cohen Modal Haplotype is found among many Jewish populations of
> the world, including Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and the Bene Israel of
> India.
Cohen again ?

> # The Cohen Modal Haplotype, which belongs to haplogroup J, was a
> component of the ancient Israelite population, and especially common
> among the Cohens (priests of the Temple in Jerusalem)

a Cathar christians ?.

> You can read more in the articles I link to at Khazaria.com, as well as
> in Chapter 10 of the Second Edition of my book "The Jews of Khazaria".
> I think you'll find all the answers you're seeking there.

No I did not find anything about Khazar Christians on your site

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> Kevin Brook

> Robert Cohen wrote:
> > Jews--as other peoples--are products of diffusion & absorption.
> > My overall point: Jews/Hebrews have apparently from
> > pre-Biblical/Biblical times consisted of various native Middle Eastern
> > tribes or amalgamations of peoples.
> > Diffusion & absorption reders to both genetics and culture.

> > That purported DNA link of Yeminite Cohanim & Polish Cohanim
> > can simultaneously also be true.
> > [...]
> > Some oriental or sephardi called "Yeminite Jews"--relatively more
> > insular & isolated--are seemingly what (some, percentage?) of
> > the "original Hebrews" resemble.
> > [...]
> > If you are fairly well-read in DNA literature, please discuss
> > some ideas/knowledge/new findings/confirmations that are of interest,
> > especially about the Jews, please.

The link between Cathar-Khazar is based on names for the Paulicians in
different tribes, countries and languages not ON DNA ( Is there a
study comparing Cathar DNA with Kgazar DNA ?)

Dear Robert, if you Khazar experts were not blinded with the question,
whether Khazar are Jews or not and the Cathar experts were seing dollar

signs with a local (French) origin of the Cathar religion, I would no
have been the first to come with this theory and its proof.

Nick Youngh

NB Please react as well on my other question on this site about the
proof wether the Khazar were Ammonites and how did they bridhe the
distance in miles and years.

Reageren »

Geiserik wrote:
> No I did not find anything about Khazar Christians on your site

Khazar Christians were of Khazar ethnic background, that is, originally

Turkic shamanists who converted to Byzantine Orthodox Christianity.
There are graves and churches from Christian Khazars on the Crimean
peninsula. They learned Christianity from Byzantine (Greek)
missionaries.

They are not Cathars. There is no connection between Khazars and
Cathars. The Khazars did not learn Christianity from French people.

Reageren » Dit bericht beoordelen: Text for clearing space

Kevin Brook wrote::
> They (Khazar Christians) are not Cathars.

Are you an expert on Cathars as well ?

> There is no connection between Khazars and
> Cathars. The Khazars did not learn Christianity from French people.

this remark is highly unfair and ridiculous.
Why should I think that Khazars learned their Christianity from the 5
centuries later living French Cathars?. Please read the 1st message of
a string before you react on it, please.

My theory and string is named "Were the Cathars Kathars?"and my claim
(if any) that the Khazar Paulicians sippled after the fall of the
Khazar empire to the west and the Cathars were named after them.
The Paulicians deported to the Balkan were named Bogomils (men of god)
in the Bulgar language and a bogomil bishop ordenated 7 Cathar priests

and baptised 2000 Cathar converts on the 1st Cathar concily in France.
Frederic II issued the "Gazari assyl" for the German courts. Gazari was

the Italian name for Khazars.

Are you really obsession blinded or just rude ?.

There are some facts a Khazar expert could help with, on this new
theory
- Were both Christians in the Khazar Court Greek Orthodox ?
- Were there Sabath obeying Paulicians in Khazaria and to what extend ?

- Were there no Roman Catholic Khazars in the Slavic Khazar regions ?
- Where there no Paulicians in the Kaukasus regions ?
- Where there not many Bogomil converts under the Bulgar tribes in
Khazaria ?.