On 08/04/2013 03:07 PM, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
> PS: Note that the version of wajig you've grown to love is available
> at changeset 0 in the mercurial repository (before I came in to screw
> everything up). It will be missing loads of bug fixes and nice
> improvements, but then maybe it will make you happier.
Now you make me feel bad for saying what I think really needed to be said. I REALLY appreciate the
upgrading work you have done. The problem is not all yours, the system has grown more complex, and
Graham Williams left VERY large shoes to fill. IF this mailing list had existed before the
transition, some of this could have been avoided. ( for instance - if people don't want the nice
clean, terse wajig log - there could be a setting in .wajig/config or even /etc/wajig )
popcon show about 147k of installs - on Debian - for people that have popcon installed.
This mailing list needs more of those people involved to help with the work and debate the direction
before things just happen.
As painful as my first email may be - please take to heart the paragraph about orthogonality.
One of my jobs was as director of engineering that oversaw the development of both complex hardware
and software. It is a reality that the people really close to the code see things that the people
who wrote the specification don't and it is equally true that those closest can miss the 'forest for
the trees'. If the conversation of these conflicting points of view doesn�t happen, the results are
disappointing. So in a way, what I'm saying is the users let you down by not being more involved. If
you had known just how valuable that log was, I don't think you would have removed it.
If nothing else, making versions available (via backports when possible. ) for review before it gets
into testing would be a good idea. ( I should have had a testing box going earlier to see what was
going on )
Just for the record, the default setup apparently logrotated my history away - something that did
not/would not happen with the wajig log. I had changed log rotate on the servers, but I missed one
of the desktops. The idea is I can install wajig - things just work without messing with ever more
configurations - that is not what apt provides. With the wajig log - I had the information I needed
- and just what I needed in one file - no logrotate file to edit and the logs have just what is
needed no more. If I do a release upgrade, I might delete the log and start over - keeping a log of
what was installed and purged over the course of a release is quite useful - I've been able to
reconstruct how bad things happened and when.
Compare these two logs:
wajig:
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade firmware-linux-free 2.6.32-48squeeze3
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade flashplugin-nonfree 1:2.8.2+squeeze1
2013-07-07T13:16 remove gecko-mediaplayer 0.9.9.2-1
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade ghostscript 8.71~dfsg2-9+squeeze1
2013-07-07T13:16 remove gnome-mplayer 0.9.9.2-1
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade gnupg 1.4.10-4+squeeze1
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade gnupg-agent 2.0.14-2+squeeze1
Apt:
Start-Date: 2013-08-04 13:53:43
Commandline: apt-get install --auto-remove jackeq
Install: jackeq:amd64 (0.5.9-2)
End-Date: 2013-08-04 13:53:50
Start-Date: 2013-08-04 13:59:10
Commandline: apt-get install --auto-remove jack-tools jack-stdio pulseaudio-module-jack qjackctl
slv2-jack jack-rack vlc-plugin-jack qjackrcd
Install: slv2-jack:amd64 (0.6.6+dfsg1-2), qjackrcd:amd64 (1.0.6~ds0-1), pulseaudio-module-jack:amd64
(2.0-6.1), jack-stdio:amd64 (1.4-1), jack-rack:amd64 (1.4.8~rc1-1), jack-tools:amd64 (20101210-2),
vlc-plugin-jack:amd64 (2.0.6-dmo1), libraptor1:amd64 (1.4.21-7.1, automatic), liblrdf0:amd64
(0.4.0-5, automatic)
End-Date: 2013-08-04 13:59:17
Which one would you want to dig through when debugging at 3AM?
The old wajig log saved my but several times.
Here is an example from a still running squeeze machine:
$ grep bind9-host Log
2012-06-16T15:51 upgrade bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze5
2012-08-12T11:47 upgrade bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze6
2012-09-18T15:15 remove bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze6
2012-09-18T15:20 install bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze7
2012-10-29T20:03 upgrade bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze8
2013-07-07T13:16 upgrade bind9-host 1:9.7.3.dfsg-1~squeeze10
We just can't do that with the apt log.
Here is a grep for wajig in .bash_history which could be a source of information about what people
use the most.
wajig listfiles icedove |grep -i css
wajig details icedove
wajig update
wajig source icedove
wajig update
wajig source icedove
wajig update; wajig distupgrade
wajig stop cron
wajig start cron
wajig whichpkg /usr/sbin/service
wajig list screen
wajig details kscreensaver
wajig listfiles xscreensaver-gl
wajig listfiles xscreensaver-gl |grep slide
wajig reportbug xscreensaver-gl
wajig install google-talkplugin_current_amd64.deb
wajig listfiles google-talkplugin_current_amd64.deb
wajig purge google-talkplugin_current_amd64.deb
wajig purge google-talkplugin
wajig listall h265
wajig listall codex
wajig listall 264
wajig listall msx
wajig listall 264
wajig list |grep -i gnome
wajig listorphans
wajig purgeorphans
wajig autoremove
wajig commands |grep -iC3 depend
wajig commands |grep -iC3 hold
wajig commands |grep -iC6 force
Imagine the nasty syntax if all was done without wajig..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Schmidt EMail
Ka...@xtronics.com
Transtronics, wajig Inc. WEB
http://secure.transtronics.com
The truth is easy to kill. But a lie, well told, is immortal. -- Mark Twain
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