Latest Elemnt Bolt Firmware - Power dropouts (SRM)

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Žiga Grošelj

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Apr 18, 2019, 9:43:53 AM4/18/19
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After yesterdays update to my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt, my power readings are having dropouts, or read 0 from powermeter, I am quite sure that its Bolts problem, anyone else experiencing the same problems?

vertig...@gmail.com

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Apr 18, 2019, 11:12:58 AM4/18/19
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I'm having similar issues with the previous update and a RaceFace meter.  After recalibrating the meter within its own app, and then again on the Elmnt, it persists.  I can't get the power to read more than 50 watts but the %FTP reads in line with what I feel my output is.

Žiga Grošelj

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Apr 20, 2019, 12:33:45 PM4/20/19
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I rly dont know what to do, I don't know when will be the next firmware update, and if it will be even fixed :(. I guess i will go back to garmin...

smpm...@gmail.com

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Apr 21, 2019, 1:56:39 AM4/21/19
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I am having the same issues, with my bolt reading weird power goes -numbers then maybe accurate for a min then goes haywire again,
Anyone know how to trouble shoot this?
Cheers

Žiga Grošelj

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Apr 21, 2019, 2:03:21 AM4/21/19
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I don't know, I send them support ticket, but no answer, I will test it today on my old garmin, but I am pretty sure that is Bolts firmware problem...

Žiga Grošelj

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Apr 21, 2019, 3:07:20 AM4/21/19
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Mail from SRM:

thank you for your message and sorry to hear that you have a problem with Power dropouts.

I got the feedback from different customers in the last days that there have problems after the latest Firmware update from the Element Bolt.

You can check the position of the cadence magnet and the zero offset of your PowerMeter.
But if this is all okay, maybe you can downgrade your Element Bolt to the previous firmware to solve the problem.

Alfred

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Apr 21, 2019, 9:40:06 AM4/21/19
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just to add to this topic:  
for me there are spurious data at the start of the workout for the first 2-5 min. Power reading on the Bolt is 10-30 W during that time. I found out that stop pedaling for about 20 s (power is zero) the power data are correct afterwards. It appears as if the Bolt loose calibration data form SRM and gets them back after "auto zero-calibration" during the phase of no-pedaling.
Also interesting, when the file is imported into Golden Cheetah, there are power readings within this first 2-5 min of 60000 W!! Although this can be corrected by simply overriding the erroneous data it is cumbersome and should be immediately fixed by Wahoo as it worked perfectly before the update.  

Žiga Grošelj

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Apr 21, 2019, 9:42:04 AM4/21/19
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Same, but numbers never go back to normal, as all the time I stop pedaling, calibration goes wild I guess...

Russel Christie-Taylor

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Apr 22, 2019, 9:44:49 PM4/22/19
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Have had the same issue with my Bolt since new firmware. Have been running a PC8 simultaneously for the past few rides and the power is fine on that. 
So the issue is with the Wahoo. Unpairing, repairing and zero offset does not solve the issue.
Email reply I have had from Wahoo:
Hello Russ

Thank you for letting us know about your experience. We apologize for the issue and have raised a ticket with our developers who are actively working on a fix. Though we do not currently have an exact delivery date, the problem is a priority on our road map for future app and firmware revisions. 

Since we have an open ticket with our development team, all customer service tickets related to the issue (including this one) will be marked as “On-Hold” and merged with the developer ticket to be monitored internally. This process allows us to send automatic notifications when changes are complete. Full release notes are posted on https://support.wahoofitness.com 

Be sure to keep your app and device up-to-date to receive the fix, when available.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience and support as we strive to serve you better. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns in the meantime.

Thanks for being a Wahoo customer,
Angel

inv2004

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Apr 22, 2019, 10:49:08 PM4/22/19
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The same problem, sure its the problem with auto-zero or something near.

Sometimes, after start - I see than numbers is very low, something like 30w and lower, average lap - sometimes negative. It restore (sometimes) after I stop pedaling. SRM PC-7 works perfect all the time.

Regards,

wenlo...@gmail.com

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Apr 25, 2019, 4:06:01 PM4/25/19
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Purchased a bolt last week and used it tonight with my SRM on the local TT. I’m having the same issue as above.
Reading - watts for the first mile or so, then coasted around a bend then it seemed to reset and read correct power for the rest of TT.
Looked after my power is 60000+ for the first bit ..I wish !!
I never had any problems with a garmin.

uz.m...@gmail.com

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Apr 25, 2019, 5:09:01 PM4/25/19
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I never had any problems with a garmin.

Somehow, it strikes me as funny to read this on the Wahoo Elemnt list. I certainly would not be here if I never had any problems with a garmin :-).
 

wenlo...@gmail.com

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Apr 25, 2019, 5:15:56 PM4/25/19
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My Garmin 500 died last week sadly. I have a kickr turbo which has been brilliant so I thought the bolt would be great upgrade ..maybe a bad move

inv2004

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Apr 25, 2019, 11:00:58 PM4/25/19
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I created an enother thread here about downgrade firmware, I did it - and now its much better than with the lastest one, but not ideal. I am quite sure that wahoo bolt has some problems with automatic auto-zeroing, I would prefer to  be sure that any auto-zero is disables, like I did on every srm.

Regards,

Alfred

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Apr 26, 2019, 2:43:47 AM4/26/19
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I am currently in contact with Wahoo-support as this issue seems to be very frequent. Tried to follow their first recommendations such as un-pair and re-pair the SRM. At least for me, it doesn't resolve the problem and I was asked to send them not only the fit-files but also a log-file exported from the app. Anyway, I will keep an update on the development to this thread.
cheers   

Todd Tannenbaum

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Apr 26, 2019, 10:18:04 AM4/26/19
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Seems to be a specific interaction between SRM and Bolt.... anybody else having problems with the latest bolt firmware and a non-SRM power meter?

FWIW, I have done several rides now without any issues using a single-sided 4iiii Precision power meter.

If it is specific to SRM meters, perhaps that info could help Wahoo (or SRM?) fix the issue...

inv2004

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Apr 26, 2019, 10:26:36 AM4/26/19
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I can confirm that its not only lastest firmware problem, 2171 has the same problem, but its just not so bad visible.

Peter Lee

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Apr 26, 2019, 12:54:39 PM4/26/19
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I also have 4iiii single side and Bolt. I noticed that Bolt’s firmware updated 1+ week ago, but haven’t seen any unusual wattage readings in recent rides, long or short. 

Peter.

inv2004

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Apr 26, 2019, 10:42:33 PM4/26/19
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I belived its quite hard to send any message to wahoo and receive anything except useless answer from support, thats why I will post it here:

I did some investigation in adb and found some logs in /data/data/com.wahoofitness.bolt/files/logs.
Also, I found messages when I did manual recalibration + I found a lot of messages like that:
04-25 18:20:39.033  1116  1519 E CPMCPA_Helper2:50332: [129] onNewCalibrationMessage unexpected cmd null

Which happen exactly before power-numbers were broken on the next interval.

Another option I found is <boolean name="ManualZeroCalibration" value="true" /> in config file on the srm-sensor, it is set to true, that why its a bit strange that bolt doing any recalibration if the options do that it seems to mean.

Regards,

Alfred

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Apr 28, 2019, 7:10:10 AM4/28/19
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an update to the power issue with Bolt:
after about 1h in todays ride the power dropped to zero and never recovered thereafter. This wasn't the case before, instead after a few seconds non-pedaling, power was shown again. Now I tried to re-calibrate during a short brake but all the Bolt returns was Torque=0.
Quite frustrating by now, I will wait a few more weeks what solution Wahoo has to offer. Meanwhile I am back with Edge 820.
cheers
     

Jimmy Rancourt

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Apr 28, 2019, 7:24:19 AM4/28/19
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My brother in law seems to have the same pr8blem with his power2max...

Wahoo Bill

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Apr 28, 2019, 1:24:55 PM4/28/19
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Hey Folks,

We do apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused. We narrowed down the issue to the SRM power meter and have a fix for it in our beta group. Anyone who wants to opt into that release and get an early fix send us an email q...@wahoofitness.com

Thank you

Wahoo Bill

Christian

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Apr 28, 2019, 4:02:39 PM4/28/19
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Hey Bill,

I wonder if this is considered an SRM issue only, because I had a similar behavior last week with a Garmin Vector 2. After 2h, power values started becoming jumpy and way too low (roughly half the expected value, where being half could hint at one pedal not reporting; but then it could be coincidental). Only after stopping and recalibrating, values came back to normal. Plus I've read about other PMs also being affected in this thread.

Christian

Wahoo Bill

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Apr 29, 2019, 9:20:41 AM4/29/19
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Hi Cristian,

The issue with the SRM was with the autocalibration that they have in place, that was throwing our metrics way off. We only had a handful of users with other Power Meters experiencing issues and after a bit of troubleshooting it turned out the issue was with the Power Meter. 

If anyone else experiencing issues with Power other than the SRM please contact our support team at https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us

Thanks

inv2004

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Apr 29, 2019, 9:31:34 PM4/29/19
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Today I did small test on beta WB15-2666 firmware and I can confirm that SRM power looks stable now.

Thank you,

Alain Cadorette

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Apr 29, 2019, 9:58:59 PM4/29/19
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Purchased a Bolt last saturday and had to bring it back after a couple of hours since I was never able to get it working with my SRM (v.7). Same issues as described here. Got to pair, but wattage never really worked

Was really looking forward to moving on from Garmin, but I guess not. 

A couple of observations for the Wahoo people looking at this

1- WIth the SRM, we need an option to switch auto calibrate to OFF. This is available in the Garmin and works best even for Garmin users

2- Would require a section that shows the current slope as calibrated by SRM at the factory (available by Garmin)

3- Would require a view of the torque live and the ability to change the Slope number (available by Garmin)

4- Keep supporting earlier versions of SRM. Many users out there that could switch to Wahoo from Garmin

All the features that I was looking forward to use with the Element Bolt got washed away by the issued I had when using the SRM and there's no way that I will stop using the most precise Power Meter out there.

inv2004

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Apr 29, 2019, 10:55:24 PM4/29/19
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Alain,

1) I believe that its was the root cause of the problem which were discussed in the thread and, like I mentioned in my previous message - I suppose that it is fixed in 2666 firmware. Unfortunately its not so clear - if they disabled it totally (would be perfect to know it), or just changed some logic of recalibration it it could happen again somehow.

2,3) Yes, its good idea, but its no necessary to correct work, because device send the slope via ant+ CTF + torque, wahoo is android device and ANT+ and ant-library calculates CTF-power (which SRM sends) automatically based on slope, which is sent by SRM.

Unfortunately, if we do recalibration at home - then we need pc7 to change it.

4) PM6 is quite old stuff, unfortunately it has many dropouts even on SRM<->PC7.

Please note that WB15-2666 could help with the SRM problem. I will do more tests tomorrow with it.

Unfortunately 2 years ago I found that garmin 520 and 1030 has dropouts with SRM too (wahoo does not have it now), not sure about current situation with garmin.

Regards,


Alain Cadorette

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Apr 29, 2019, 11:09:16 PM4/29/19
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Thanks for the reply. Might wait for the beta version to go to prod before getting another one

And the slope can be changed with Garmin units. I have done it with both a 510 and an 820. No need for a PC7

Thanks 

Todd Tannenbaum

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May 1, 2019, 8:42:12 AM5/1/19
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So firmware 2666 was just pushed to my Bolt this morning (ie my phone Elemnt app said there was an update, and it was 2666).  So apparently it is out of beta.
Message has been deleted

Philipp W.

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May 2, 2019, 12:49:54 AM5/2/19
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Hi Bill,

there is definitely an issue with the Garmin Vector 2s and the update, too. Mine showed the same behaviour although they worked perfectly before that. I found other reports from Vector 2 users as well.
Downloaded the 2666-Update yesterday and did a very short test ride. Figures seem to make sense but cannot finally confirm.

Wahoo Bill

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May 2, 2019, 8:48:07 AM5/2/19
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Thanks for the update Philipp. Keep us posted please

Lars Halstrom

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May 3, 2019, 5:51:11 PM5/3/19
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I've been trying to update my Bolt's Firmware from 2659 to 2666 for 2 days now. Deleted all maps, paired an unpaired, factory reset and it says error: failed to install. Wahoo says connect to my Mac and go to System_Update_Element Folder>  delete the firmware version '#### folder> reboot the Element Bolt  and try the update once more. So I plugged it into my Mac's USB port and nothing happened. Have no clue how to find this folder. Very poor instructions.

Chris F

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May 4, 2019, 12:31:07 AM5/4/19
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Hi Lars.
My Bolt won't update from the phone app, but I've never had any problems updating firmware on the device itself in the settings menu. Just make sure it's connected to wifi and "check for updates".

Chris F

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May 4, 2019, 12:35:32 AM5/4/19
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Hi Bill.
I put in a ticket with pretty much the same issue with my Bolt and SRM Origin.
The new update has stopped power readings elevating to 65000w, and the Bolt is largely reading the same as my Garmin Fenix 5 now.
But I now get dropouts and stalling. Three dropouts today over a 75km ride and my power curve has a dead flat spot at 286w from 1 minute to 5 minutes. So that's weird.
So the new firmware has improved things but not cured it.
Cheers.

Josh Smith

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May 4, 2019, 12:53:37 AM5/4/19
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Hi Lars,
When I tried updating firmware the other day using the phone app it failed (never happened before) but updating using the bolt itself worked fine.

Cheers

Phil

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May 4, 2019, 1:29:55 AM5/4/19
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Download and install Android File Tools to access that folder in OS X ;)

Lars Halstrom

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May 4, 2019, 2:15:24 PM5/4/19
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Are you updating to an Android device or Mac?

Denny

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May 5, 2019, 11:06:04 AM5/5/19
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Hi Lars

I was waiting for a reply from support about the same problem and your information to delete the update folder worked. For the Mac, you need to use the Android File Transfer tool which can be found on the web.

Lars Halstrom

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May 6, 2019, 10:58:14 AM5/6/19
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Hi Denny, 
I don't have a clue all the steps needed to remove the 2659 update and upload the 2666 update with my MacBook. Tried Pairing my Bolt with my wife's Samsung Tablet after we downloaded the app. Then activated the check for updates and it still fails.  I can live with the 2659 update, everything was working just fine. However, now my Bolt automatically checks for updates as soon as I turn it on and goes thru the loop to failure to install first. Is there a way to turn off this annoying auto check?

Lars

James Kelley

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May 6, 2019, 11:46:40 AM5/6/19
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I've recently started experiencing sensor dropouts between my ELEMNT and my PowerTap P1 pedals and my TICKER Fit heart rate monitor, both of which drop simultaneously while my Garmin speed sensor maintains its connection.  I've seen a lot of posts here focusing on SRM power meters so I just wanted to chime in and point out that it's happening with other power meters AND other types of sensors.  Typically I find that my HRM re-connects more quickly than my P1's do, with the dead spots in my power profile being anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of a mile.

Denny

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May 6, 2019, 12:13:02 PM5/6/19
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Lars, 

The Bolt uses the Android operating system. On a Mac you need to use the Android File Transfer tool instead of Finder to see the files. Download it here,  After it has been installed in the Applications folder and opened, it will automatically open when the Bolt is connected. 

Philipp W.

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May 6, 2019, 2:05:55 PM5/6/19
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Hi,
did a 3h ride yesterday and I would say the update 2666 has resolved the power reading issues for the Garmin Vector 2s. My 3sec and 30sec average power data fields showed reasonable numbers during the ride and inspection of power graphs later on didnt show ambigious values.

Have not tested my SRM yet.

Anyone else with feedback on the Vectors or SRM?

Lars Halstrom

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May 7, 2019, 1:53:40 PM5/7/19
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Hey Denny,

Got the update folder deleted and now it downloaded update 2666. My daughter and I teamed up to figure it out. However on the Element App it shows 2 devices, the one before the update and the one after the update. I can't tap on it to for get the device. Did you have the same thing happen?

Lars

Denny

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May 7, 2019, 7:16:27 PM5/7/19
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No, Lars, I didn't have any problems once I deleted the update folder. If you can tell which device is the old firmware I would try unpairing it. Or maybe unpair both devices and then pair it again. On an iPhone swipe left on the device to unpair it. You will get a message to open Bluetooth setting and delete the Bolt there also. Then go to the menu on the Bolt and select Forget Phone. It will be ready to pair after that.

inv2004

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May 14, 2019, 8:35:05 PM5/14/19
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I am sure that problem still exists: Looks like it is much more stable in 2666, but I see that numbers is off every new day/ride, probably after each power off-on.

Some days I see that sometimes numbers are ~50w+ lower, another days I see that its 50w+ higher, I always fix it by calibration and looks like its ok until end of the ride.

Do You know if it is possible to check zero-offset on elemnt filesystem via adb? It would help to compare it sometimes. I did not find it in text format.

Regards,
  Alexander.

Philipp W.

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May 15, 2019, 12:22:00 AM5/15/19
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Hi Alexander,

I agree that there is still a problem with power readings for SRM. I experience similar problems like you though in my case they are always higher. Sometimes 150w or more. Doing the zero offset calibration helps. But I will try to borrow a SRM PC8 to cross check values.

By now Wahoo has updated to version 2671 last week but issues are the same.

Regards,
Philipp

inv2004

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May 15, 2019, 12:32:52 AM5/15/19
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Philipp,
I have pc7 and Garmin edge 520 - no problems at all. (Garmin has another problems, but values are correct if no dropouts).

Regards,

Philipp W.

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May 15, 2019, 12:40:38 AM5/15/19
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Ok, thanks. Have you used them in parallel on rides? Are there accuarcy issues with the Bolt still after auto calibration?

Thanks.

inv2004

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May 15, 2019, 1:02:10 AM5/15/19
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I used them several times. Bolt is ok after manual-calibration.

Sorry, did not get what you mean after "auto-calibration", because I did manual calibration as soon as I see that numbers are not correct I did manual recalibration.

It always happens at the start of the ride.


Chris F

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May 15, 2019, 1:12:24 AM5/15/19
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I'm finding this week that I need to calibrate the SRM Origin through my Bolt shortly after the ride starts.

Today I calibrated before riding but it was showing huge numbers (doube reality) after 500 metres or so. After stopping and recalibrating things seemed fine.

So it's weird that a pre-ride calibration doesn't help.

Philipp W.

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May 15, 2019, 1:14:27 AM5/15/19
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Thanks for the info. Think we both mean the same thing. Hitting the calibration button on the Bolt and waiting for the zero offset calibration.

Quite ironic. One spend a fortune on a SRM to get most reliable data and then the head unit messes it up.

inv2004

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May 15, 2019, 1:21:57 AM5/15/19
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Hard to believe that it is so hard to just disable any calibration for srm, and store the value (and slope maybe) into config file permanently.

It is just my assumption, but I did not find any offset in wahoo internal folders. I suppose that as soon as device started they do not have the prev value and do auto-recalibration to initialize it.

inv2004

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May 21, 2019, 12:05:49 AM5/21/19
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The same problem all the time (pic):

1) turn wahoo bolt on:
2) srm pc7 ~150w, wahoo ~300w.
3) recalibrate: fixed
4) repeat from #1
IMG_20190520_215445.jpg

Philipp W.

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May 21, 2019, 8:03:27 AM5/21/19
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I am still in contact with support about this issue. They want me (again) to send log files although I don't know why as it is no problem specific to my SRM. By now I would expect they understand what the issue is.

At least it seems to work after recalibration now so I won't lose weeks of training data (this is my hope I derive from your analysis).

Neil Turner

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May 25, 2019, 5:29:13 AM5/25/19
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My srm worked fine with 2666 update but now with the 2671 I have the same problems as above.. readings around 150+ over what they are.. calibration works occasionally but given up trusting it and gone back to an old garmin..please sort this wahoo as I have a lovely elemnt paper weight at the moment.

Chris F

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May 29, 2019, 1:07:55 AM5/29/19
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This is taking a while.
Support has told me via email they're pretty sure next firmware update will fix it, but it's getting pretty annoying having to zero the SRM every ride, during the ride, to get what I hope are accurate figures.
The big appeal of SRM and the Bolt have been that they 'just work'. Well that's just not the case right now.
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