renaming Wagn to "Cardicle"

[Ethan McCutchen]

Hi all,

For over five years now, we've been batting around ideas about renaming Wagn.  As we approach the 2.0 release, at which point we'll make a big push to bring Wagn to a wider audience, it feels like the right time to make the leap, and significant momentum is gathering behind the name "Cardicle".

Cardicle connects "cards" with two primary metaphors: particle and article.  The particle metaphor is great for conveying ideas around Wagn's structure: atomicity, granularity, fractals, recombination, etc.  And articles are useful for conversations around some of the higher level uses, like wikis and CMS.

I'm probably not the only one with some sentimental attachment to the name "Wagn", but as the software has evolved, it's become a more and more awkward fit.  The name originally came from "wiki + tagging", but that was based on a conception of plus cards where the usage was based on mutual tagging, whereas now we using think of those cards more like fields.  The more we seek to become international state-of-the-art software platform, the odder it feels to be named after clunky old technology and branded with imagery that suggests US manifest destiny!

Perhaps more importantly, the name Wagn doesn't do much to help introduce the software or the key concepts behind it.  I often find myself saying "In Wagn, everything is a card".  While most folks can get over the fact that wagons and cards don't have much to do with each other, it feels like a missed opportunity to embrace and reinforce an idea that we need to stick in folks' minds.  "In Cardicle, everything is a card".  OK, that my brain can hold; tell me more.

So, what do you think?  Nothing is, as of yet, etched in stone, nor have we contracted a mason.  The name is fairly new (it was just suggested by Art Brock last week), but I think it's a great one.  We're currently moving forward with the idea that rather than releasing Wagn 2.0 this Autumn, we'll release Cardicle 1.0 in its place.  Should it turn out that "cardicle" means "data breach" in Mandarin, or there is some other strong reason not to use Cardicle or to use another name instead, then there's no reason we can't change course.

But I hope you'll like the idea as much as I do.  Thoughts?

- ethan

--
Ethan McCutchen

One of the Wagneers, Wagn.org

Wagn. How pioneers roll.

s: ethan.mccutchen

t: @intogreater

[John Sechrest]

I can see the down sides to WAGN.

It did not pass the google test for me. And it does have imagery that gets in your way.

I am not sure that cardicle passes the test.

Google test:

1) say the domain once, and the listener can type it correctly into google

2) Show the domain for 3 seconds and then can they type it correctly into google

3) When they get google results, are there a small number of results. 

Is it cardicle or cardicel or cardical or ... 

Are you thinking a card icicle?

Not sure that I have a better suggestion. 

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[Tom Brooke]

I agree with what you say about Wagn and a new name would be great but like John I am not sure about Cardicle - I appreciate the Card connection - but it sounds smallish or like a personal file system instead of networked knowledge repository

[James Thompson]

I agree with others, I don't like cardicle, first thing that comes to mind is that its a variant of a Popsicle.

I'd rather see something like: ConnectedCards.

[Ethan McCutchen]

Mark Dilley tried to send this comment but it got rejected for some reason:

Agree with renaming.  Wagn had its use, time to move on.

Agree with John and Tom, Cardicle feels like stuck in the same mud, maybe

even stepped into quicksand...

[Mark Dilley]

Agree with renaming.  Wagn had its use, time to move on.

Agree with John and Tom, Cardicle feels like stuck in the same mud, maybe even stepped into quicksand...

Best, Mark

313-942-9454

[Ethan McCutchen]

So it's unanimous: we all LOVE it!  ;)

You all bring up good points.  Let me have a go at winning you over.

First, consider that the first encounter of the brand will often be accompanied by a logo.  While we don't have one designed yet, there is fertile visual soil to work with there with the card and particle imagery.  Perhaps, for example, it's a card shape in an electron's orbit.  Or the word "cardicle" in the negative space of a card-shaped particle cloud.  Or a cosmic swirl made out of little cards...

In any case, an image will go a long way towards reinforcing the strength of this brand, which is a mix of the very prosaic (cards) and an expanse of structural creative opportunity (particles).  Simple and straightforward on the one hand and replete with power and possibility on the other.

I have lots of conversations with people about Wagn, and they come at it from very different places.  Some want cosmic vision, some want a todo list.  To me, this is a very pliant brand, and it helps us go approachable or grandiose as needed.

You're right, Tom, that it sounds small.  "icle" is a diminutive ending, after all.  We were even conceiving of it that "cardicle" is really the full name of a "card".  You could as easily say that you've created 10 cardicles as 10 cards.  In that sense the name is a bit of a synecdoche, in which we've named the whole after its part.

This actually fits our new architecture in a fun way.  You wouldn't say you'd created "a new cardicle" as you might now say you'd made "a new wagn".  But rails developers don't say they've made "a new rails" either.  You say you've made a new "rails app".  We were thinking you'd now create a new "cardicle deck".  (or just a new deck, since that's not as ambiguous as "app").

So let's look at the google test in order of Cardicle's best to worst scores:

• When they get google results, are there a small number of results. 
  

The key concern there is being able to own the results page; I'm confident we will easily own the top 10 slots in no time.  Slots 4 and 5 are ping results for cardicle.info, a domain that we registered without really wanting because it came in a package deal.  We have the .com, .org, and .net.  I'd say Cardicle gets an A+ here.

• Show the domain for 3 seconds and then can they type it correctly into google
  

I can test this empirically, but my guess is that this would go pretty well (A-?) even without an image, and that it would go extremely well with the suggestive power of an image that helps the viewer make the particle connection.

• say the domain once, and the listener can type it correctly into google
  

I'll have to test this one, too, but I would guess it's a B because of the variants you mention.

With both the second and third test, the key concern is, of course, not so much that folks type it correctly, but that Cardicle actually shows up as the top result.  The .orgs are available for all the variants you mention; if I purchase those, I suspect we'll pass the google test with flying colors.

I admit I hadn't thought of the popsicle connotation, but at least that suggests a theme song.

Let it sink in a bit guys (hopefully not in Mark's quicksandy sense).  I've been waiting for five years for a good name to come along, and we've rejected a thousand ideas along the way.  I really think this is a strong one!

-e

On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 3:14 PM, James Thompson <j...@lj.net> wrote:

I agree with others, I don't like cardicle, first thing that comes to mind is that its a variant of a Popsicle.

I'd rather see something like: ConnectedCards.

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[jean russell]

Personally, I am really excited.

Cardicle isn't perfect, but I can't seem to think of something better. It just outperforms all the other ideas I have heard or come up with.  I am all for kicking the tires, but I prefer the wiki cultural practice of "don't critique without offering something better."

I do tend to write it as carticle when writing by hand. Not sure why.

I really like that it isn't playing to a past pattern. We had that string of dropping the e off of er words from flickr... let's not do THAT. 

Will people think we are putting their information into the cubicle... and spawn some Office show? I don't know, but Ethan will probably make jokes about it.

See http://vinebox.co/u/wiaJ0cqlOwJ for your Office Vines.

Jean Russell
312.725.2171
@Thrivable

Thrivable, Inc.

Thrivable.net

triarchypress.net/thrivability.html

"Real generosity toward the future lies in giving all to the present." -- Albert Camus

[Mark Dilley]

Jean - am very interested to hear story about "the wiki cultural practice of "don't critique without offering something better" - never heard that before! 

In defense of reactions to it, wasn't really set up as - hey what are your ideas - we have had a thousand of them and all these people (list them) think caricle is a good name. 

(I left it as caricle - cuz that it how I spelled it the first few times. )

Awesome if this is - hey our new name is caricle ( again with the spelling, dangit!) 

Interesting if a public group discussion is wanted too, not needed though :-)

Best, Mark
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[jean russell]

I attribute most of my favorite and recent cultural practices to wikis.  ;)

Sort of like wikivanning is really open space in a van.

But actually, I think it makes sense Mark.  Even if i badly phrased it. You might critique all you want in the talk page,  but the main wiki page should only include your improvements. Readers usually focus on the page and not the talk page behind it. Thus, if you want something better, jump in to improve it instead of saying what it isn't on the talk page.

We want your thoughts on it.  as Ethan said,  it isn't in stone. we can see some challenges to it.  I am sure you can too. Are any of those significant?

We are a community.  As president of the board,  I am interested in making such am important change only after asking our community how you feel about it. Can you get behind it? Do you have a better idea that we should consider? Do you see a dangerous flaw in it that we missed? Do you have some making criteria that we should use? (John's list was great!)

Gratitude,
Jean

[Ethan McCutchen]

To clarify the framing a bit, I think we're somewhere between brainstorming and "our new name is Cardicle".   Basically, my feeling is that now is the time to rebrand if we're going to do it, and that Cardicle is a serious improvement over Wagn.  So unless a better idea emerges, I'd say Cardicle 1.0 (rather than Wagn 2.0) is the default name for the next major release.

I hope that sounds less like a decree than a "gauntlet thrown" ;)

I suppose it's telling that nobody has yet shed a tear for the Wagn name.  I think I've spent so much time with the old bastard I'm starting to anthropomorphize it.  Poor old Wagn.  It's like an old pet whose time has come.  Now I'm caninomorphizing it...

[Tom Brooke]

I am still running cardicle through my head and trying to think of something better or else trying to appreciate it more -  I was thinking something like just cards - cards.io is almost available as a domain 

But in support of the icle concept here is a brief blurp from the vert.x ( a Redhat asynchronous server) manual:

Verticle

The packages of code that Vert.x executes are called verticles (think of a particle, for Vert.x).

Verticles can be written in JavaScript, Ruby, Java, Groovy or Python (Scala and Clojure support is in the pipeline).

Many verticles can be executing concurrently in the same Vert.x instance.

An application might be composed of multiple verticles deployed on different nodes of your network communicating by exchanging messages over the Vert.x event bus.

For trivial applications verticles can be run directly from the command line, but more usually they are packaged up into modules.

 

[Mark Dilley]

ConnectedCards - I like. I don't have to think. Maybe not a good choice for branding - or the google test.

Best, Mark
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[Arthur Brock]

A Wagn name change may feel sudden for those who may not have known there's been an inquiry about it for over five years.  The need to rebrand for the European project and its funding timelines meant we had reach some kind of decision. Over the past years scores of names have been suggested and considered.  

In the board meeting, we played out the pros and cons of the final few candidates.  "Cardicle" came out ahead of the others, and Ethan hadn't even known it was in consideration before the meeting since it was only proposed the night before.

I actually want to acknowledge Ethan for being able to move quickly toward a new and unfamiliar name, and then for advocating for it in a community of folks being asked to do the same.

The Cardicle name is not an irreversible decision if there's a major reason it sucks, or if there's a much stronger alternative proposed. I'm pretty sure all the board members are pretty flexible on it. However, 5 years is just too long for a re-naming process. Sadly, we probably missed the window of opportunity for many other great names in that time period.

I think the questions before us now are: 

1. Can we move forward with Cardicle?  
2. Does it tell a good enough story to improve our story and brand? 
3. Can it work in a European/Global market? 
4. Is there a major problem with it that should disqualify it? 
5. Is there a clear better alternative?

If the answer to the first few is "yes" and to the last two is "no," then I think we've got to move forward.  

This is the chance to change the game before any major investment of time, money or energy. Is there any feedback on those 5 questions that should change our course? (Especially #4 and #5)

That's how I'd suggest we frame the matter since we need to move forward with something.

-art

Arthur Brock
Emerging Leader Labs

http://www.EmergingLeaderLabs.org

Skype: artbrock

http://www.artbrock.com

[Brandon WilliamsCraig]

Don't like cardickie.

Inescapably imply the coolness of cards without leaving yourself open for the neutral (not strongly positive) associations like greeting card (bland) and playing card (antiquated and not serious).

DECK metaphors are, omg, like deca- tech-cool and have all you want from the spaceship-control category that will wow geeks and wannabe geeks alike.

No time to do Google tests on various permutations but (spewing):

Decca (no competition with the recording group)
Deckl (promo Deckl and Hyde fun might be decklerific, or Heckle & Deckl)

Deckr (action hero?)

Deckit (dude)

Decki (what could be more techie than Decki?)

more...

Brandon

(aka Dr. Myth)

from Brandon WilliamsCraig Ph.D.
bra...@culturesmith.com
Skype bdwilliamscraig (510) 962-3921
Association Building Community (866) 236-0346 fax/voice 

[John Sechrest]

(Sadly not on wagn-dev, so this will bounce for them)

Doing some brainstorming on card....

Cardicle

cardify

cardit

cardlet

cardly

carddeckit - available

cardation - available

cardban 

cardito

cardinni - available

cardalar - available

cardx

cardability

cardatino - available 

There seems to be a little room for some google test optimization.

[John Sechrest]

My friend David has a site that tests domains.

http://isvaliduser.com/

You might take a look at it. 

[Charley Quinton]

Cardicle.. hmmm

 

So will Wagneers become Cardiacs? - Card + maniac

 

Playing with it:

Cardinal - rule, number, etc...

Cardiclasm - card deletion

Cardinality - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinality_(SQL_statements)

 

What becomes of WQL? CQL - Cardicle Query Language?

 

(Too much fun - gotta stop)

[Tom Brooke]

I like cardx   cardx.io

[Ethan McCutchen]

This brainstorming energy is great!

I would encourage everyone interested in this conversation to follow (via "follow" on the card menu) the renaming exploration card on wagn.org. I'll try to get the new ideas ideas copied over there, as well as streams from several other personal emails.

I haven't been very diligent in the past about recording all the brainstorming there, in part because I usually seem to think about this when I can't sleep at 3am, but for what it's worth a lot of the earlier explorations have focused around "deck", "nest", and obviously "card", and there have been several other discussions pondering a different metaphor than "card" altogether.  Not to say there isn't a jewel in those that's been missed!

In addition to the google test, here are some other things to value

• conciseness / crispness
• pleasant to say
• being professional yet warm
• being playful yet serious
• availability of .com and .org (main site will probably be .org with .com redirecting there).
• geek appeal
• integrability with visual branding
• support for initial understanding of software purpose
• support for deep understanding of software functionality
• availability of wordplay (I know some might disagree, but this is clearly something our community enjoys.  I really like Cardiacs for Wagneers, btw!)

I'm not sure any single metric is exactly a sine qua non, and not all should receive equal weight, but pretty much every other name we've considered so far seems to struggle in a significant way with at least one of these.

[Brett Neumeier]

On Apr 11, 2014 11:12 AM, "John Sechrest" <sech...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Sadly not on wagn-dev, so this will bounce for them)
>
> Doing some brainstorming on card....
>
> Cardicle
> cardify

> cardit [....]

My $0.02 ...

I have never been fond of the "wagn" name.

I like the idea that the new name would be related to "card" or "deck". I'm not a fan of cardicle -- it just sounds too precious, and like others here my immediate reaction is that it's a portmanteau of card and popsicle or icicle.

So, other ideas:

Cardistry -- could be a portmanteau of card with "artistry" or "tapestry", both of which I like.

Cardecule -- a portmanteau with "molecule", which fits the chemistry theme like cardicle (since cards are analogous to atoms, obviously). Hmm, as far as that goes Cardistry could be a portmanteau with "chemistry".

Hypercard -- ha, okay, I know, that's already taken. But it would fit!

... I wish I had more ideas, but the other things I've thought of are already elsewhere in this thread.

[Ethan McCutchen]

re Cardistry: prior to Charley's "cardiac" suggestion, I was assuming we start calling Wagneers "Cardists".  I'd looked at Cardist-themed ideas for a long time (including cardistry), but most of the obvious domains aren't available.  I think Cardistry would be a serious contender if the .com, .net, and .org variants weren't all taken.  

For what it's worth, "cardiste.com" is up for grabs, but that's not nearly as pliant.  Cardist.org and .net are available, but sadly the .com is in use.

To be fair, though "cardist" is pretty solid by most of the other criteria we've listed (A+ on google test 1 and 2.  B+ on 3?) and I would think it would even alleviate Brandon's criticism of card-based branding by calling to mind magicians more than octogenarians, no?

So seriously, none of you are waking up the next day and thinking "cardicle, ok, that's actually kind of awesome"?  Am I being cardiculous?

-e

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[James Thompson]

Wagn may not be the best name, but it takes a lot of effort to change to a new name.

Its not clear to me that the benefits of changing are worth the effort that could otherwise be directed into improvements in functionality and promotion.  If a company named after a fruit can become one of the most respected companies in the world, I don't see why a name like wagn is a handicap.

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[Brett Neumeier]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Ethan McCutchen <et...@grasscommons.org> wrote:

re Cardistry: prior to Charley's "cardiac" suggestion, I was assuming we start calling Wagneers "Cardists".  I'd looked at Cardist-themed ideas for a long time (including cardistry), but most of the obvious domains aren't available.  I think Cardistry would be a serious contender if the .com, .net, and .org variants weren't all taken.

...Yeah. I should have checked that, I guess.
 

For what it's worth, "cardiste.com" is up for grabs, but that's not nearly as pliant.  Cardist.org and .net are available, but sadly the .com is in use.

Well, unless you're planning a for-profit business venture, how important is having the .com, really? I like "cardist" a lot. (I don't like "cardiste" because every time I see it I'll think "I'm an artiste, not a poseur!")

So seriously, none of you are waking up the next day and thinking "cardicle, ok, that's actually kind of awesome"?  Am I being cardiculous?

TBH, what I thought yesterday (and today!) is: "Cardicle, huh, I guess that would be okay, it's no worse than wagn." I don't hate it, I'm just indifferent about it. But "Cardist" (or "Cardistry") I like.

[Brandon WilliamsCraig]

James really does have a point too. Wagn continues to get me/us where we are going, and describes my tail pretty well during the process. I do like Cardist too, though.
To answer your question, nope. Not waking up and rolling over to find cardicle any more attractive than when I went to sleep. Glad there is no talk of commitment.
B

[Ethan McCutchen]

Well, I think we are pretty committed to renaming.  I liked how Art put it:

I think the questions before us now are: 

1. Can we move forward with Cardicle?  
2. Does it tell a good enough story to improve our story and brand? 
3. Can it work in a European/Global market? 
4. Is there a major problem with it that should disqualify it? 
5. Is there a clear better alternative?

If the answer to the first few is "yes" and to the last two is "no," then I think we've got to move forward.  

My feeling is that the only one really in question is #5.  As someone who has done a lot of talking about Wagn over the years, I'm pretty strongly persuaded that Cardicle will serve us better than Wagn as a brand.  I do think the first impression is richer, but more importantly, I think it helps make the key software concepts stickier by harmonizing them around a central metaphor.  So while we haven't yet committed to Cardicle, "Wagn" is pretty surely on its way out.

I hear James' comment about the cost of switching brands.  Our conclusion was that in this case the costs are relatively low.  There's basically zero physical structure bearing the name: no office placards or stationery or billboards.  There are no legal entities with Wagn in the name, nor is it even a registered trademark.  There are basically two main categories of investment that I see that we currently have in the brand.  The first is all its technical appearances, like github, twitter, rubygems, etc, as well as in the code itself.  There will be some todos there, but I really think the work there will be measured in hours or, at worst, days, but not weeks, and most of the occurrences of the old name with port or redirect smoothly to the new.

The other area is less tangible: mental space.  There are clearly lots of people who know about Wagn who won't know about Cardicle.  The cost there is hard to quantify, but I personally suspect the rebranding here would buy us more than it costs even if the brand weren't itself a signficant improvement.  That's because Wagn 2.0 / Cardicle 1.0 release is going to include significant interface improvements that will make it appeal to a broader swath of folks than any previous release has, and the rebranding will give us a chance to reach tons of people for whom Wagn 1.x was just too raw.  Put a bit more bluntly, I think we made a lot of bad first impressions over the years on curious folks who expected polish, didn't get it, and decided not to return; rebranding will give us a second chance.

So it won't be anywhere near as costly as, say, when Apple Computers changed to Apple because they'd grown out of their old name!

And, don't worry, we're definitely growing resources for functionality/promotion.  Starting next month we're going to have twice as many folks working on Wagn code than at any time in our past.  And we're doing this rebranding in service of promotion, not to detract from it!

[Ethan McCutchen]

Thanks, Lora!

Another question occurred to me after reading those thoughts.  We have really good ideas for translating the noun "Wagneer" into cardspace (I bet both cardist and cardiac will be used, though I don't know what the difference is yet).  But what about the verb "to wagneer"?

So far the best I've thought of is to carden (cardening =~ wiki gardening).

Other ideas?

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Lora Friedenthal <fyra...@gmail.com> wrote:

By accident I typed Cardible, which actually sounds nicer to me.

I get the visual possibilities of particle/molecule idea. And REALLY look forward to having a new logo in the corner of my site.

The other metaphor I think of when trying to explain how the system is connected is wormholes/portals. Inclusions are portals that bring your information in from another place. That leads you down paths like Portule.

In the end, I think we'll get used to whatever you choose and basically anything is better than wagn. ;)

-Lora

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[Ethan McCutchen]

had to look up "twee" ;)

I use that verb all the time (and the derivative noun "wagneerable") because in estimates and such I'm always having to distinguish between what can be achieved with the code base as is, what requires a mod, and what requires enhancements to the core.  Anything I can do without enhancement is "wagneerable"...

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Lora Friedenthal <fyra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a reason you need to verb it? Giving a title to people who use the system is... okay. I mean, I guess it sounds like you have a special skill that you can put on a resume or something. If you had a test to pass that got you a certification, that'd be better. But it just seems very twee to give it a verb. 

*shrug*

-Lora

On Monday, April 14, 2014 2:26:01 PM UTC-4, Ethan McCutchen wrote:

Thanks, Lora!

Another question occurred to me after reading those thoughts.  We have really good ideas for translating the noun "Wagneer" into cardspace (I bet both cardist and cardiac will be used, though I don't know what the difference is yet).  But what about the verb "to wagneer"?

So far the best I've thought of is to carden (cardening =~ wiki gardening).

Other ideas?

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[John Sechrest]

This is an article worth reading.

I think WAGN (or whatever ) fits into his last point.

Well worth commenting on the post and leaving a link to the new release.

http://cdixon.org/2014/04/13/software-eats-software-development/

[James Thompson]

While Wagn seems like an adequate name, If you are going to change the name anyway, there are a number of crowdsource sites that could provide wider product name feedback, for example:

http://www.namingforce.com/

http://www.namecontests.com/

etc.

I still think cardicle is a poor choice.

Past usage (although limited on google) seem to portray it in a negative way:

From:  http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/10202119/

 I've put her to bed, Nina, I want you to help me keep her quiet . . ." "Oh—Dr. Fellows—of course I will, but what Is it?" "Her heart, child." Nina gave a little cry of alarm. •. He talked then, kindly. He said: "A mild cardicle . . . Your mother has always had a nervous heart . . ." He said: ". . . strain, and nervous excitement .. . ." and grave things about checking it In time.

From: http://www.greengonzo.com/dictionary/Cardeacle.html

Car"di*a*cle (?), n. A pain about the heart. [Obs.] Chaucer.

- Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

You arrived here by searching for Cardicle
The correct spelling of this word ought to be: Cardiacle

[Ethan McCutchen]

Thanks for the suggestion, John.  Just posted there.