New Houses
Aaron T
Builders registration basically will make the builder do whatever needs
doing. Of course there are times when the client is a total fuckwit and teh
building inspectors will tell them to get fucked.
Painters registration, Electricians board, Plumbing registration board etc
etc list goes on... there is a group for each trade.
Its much better than having the council do it as they aren't informed on
current procedures and so forth.
As for quality of here, its actually a lot higher in general if you actually
pay what you should. In USA, UK, NZ and all the rest they are in ashortage
of good labour. You need to pay, as the old adage goes you get what you pay
for...
"DrWho" <drwh...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:1sooqtk282hqu0gks...@4ax.com...
>
> Did you know that people that get houses built in Perth have no *real*
> protection ? I'm talking as in council inspectors coming out and
> inspecting the progress of the new house.
>
> This is bad when you think this is your biggest asset. I was speaking
> to a builder from Queensland and the builder was telling me that they
> have a permit system over there. So what this means is that once the
> foundation has been poured. The council inspector will come out and a
> ok it. The council inspector will do this right the way through the
> building of the house. Most do not even put roofs on properly over
> here and that's why you will hear about so many roofs blowing off with
> a big blow.
>
> Food for thought and maybe time the councils started looking after
> house owners over here.
>
> Who?... DrWho
Aaron T
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2001 04:19:13 GMT, "Aaron T" <tod...@ses.curtin.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes you do... its handled by the individual boards..
>
>
> >Builders registration basically will make the builder do whatever needs
> >doing. Of course there are times when the client is a total fuckwit and
teh
> >building inspectors will tell them to get fucked.
>
>
So you are talking about the council employing someone to go around and
check up on the work being done on a site? How much would you pay for this
service? You want it for free.. sorry.
It is your job as a person entering a contract to have your house built to
check as it goes. If you feel you are not getting a good job, then go to the
relevant association and they will get it done, they are not on the
tradesmans side they are usually quite impartial.
Bottom line is.. its your job, just as it is with any contract. Get a clue!
> >Painters registration, Electricians board, Plumbing registration board
etc
> >etc list goes on... there is a group for each trade.
>
> No ect, as the said three trades are the only ones that have
> registration boards in WA.
>
Builders have a registration board that I know of. Most of your problems
should go through them unless the work is being done piecemeal. Carpentry is
in general a simple thing to check, and in most cases if it is of the scale
where it is out of the general persons knowledge then a builder should be in
control, and the council will have regulations and so a check can be
requested.
Tiling is another thing which is quite simple to check and in reality the
only reason not to do it yourself is the tools can be expensive for
difficult cuts. I don't see the use in a board for this.
Gyprock fixers and jobs of this ilk is another area that doesn't really
require a overseeing body. Thing is with this it is usually done only in
conjuction with another trade or major renovations/building so the builder
will be overseeing the tradesman.
> >Its much better than having the council do it as they aren't informed on
> >current procedures and so forth.
>
> The council would employ a person who knows his stuff. This person
> would make sure problems do not arise. The registration board do not
> have people that come out and check new houses from start to finish.
> The only time they come out is when a complaint has been made and the
> client is not clued up enough to know if he or she is getting a poor
> job.
As said above.. it is stupid to do what you propose, it would raise building
costs too much... far too much. In these cases as well you have some guy
saying yeah 1 coat satin is all that is needed, when any experienced painter
will tellyou all you are asking for is trouble. Sure thats all that is
required, but the job will look crap.
>
> Did you know that pipes have to be lagged ? Would you know that all
> wet area doors should be primed at the top and bottom ? Would you know
> how many tie downs there should be from the roof structure to the
> walls ?
>
These are all things to be researched BEFORE entering a contract and then
you look at the specification and say hey i want this and i want that... its
pretty simple for anyone with half a brain.
As for pipes being lagged its not nessesary in Perth and the majority of
Australia, the climate doesn't call for it. As for priming wet areas top and
bottom its good practice, because you could get damp going either way. Other
way is to use a breathing paint like acrylic so the moisture can make its
own way. As for tie downs, its out of my area, but I'm sure within a couple
of days (well minutes) I could have the answer quite simply.
It comes down to doing your homework and not whinging when you didn't.
> >As for quality of here, its actually a lot higher in general if you
actually
> >pay what you should. In USA, UK, NZ and all the rest they are in
ashortage
> >of good labour. You need to pay, as the old adage goes you get what you
pay
> >for...
>
> Queensland is in Australia.
>
Whats that mean? You had one rough brush with one trade and they are all
bad? I mean your point about lagging pipes is BS anyway... hasnt been done
on homes for ages.
> It will happen anyway Aaron. I'm in the industry and have been for the
> last twenty yrs.
>
Doesn't sound like it... what do you do?
> Who?... DrWho
>
Aaron T
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:49:19 +0800, M i c C u l l e n
> <nos...@cross.com.au> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Why expect the council to do it? Get your own inspector - it's a much
> >safer system anyway...
>
> Because at the moment clients that have new houses being built have no
> real protection and the council are the best people to look after this
> area.
>
Why is this? It involves trainging people up to do the job others are
already qualifies for
> Never heard of an inspector and never seen one on any job I have been
> on. Bigger jobs have Architectures that most likely do this for a fee.
> Would never work on your standard new house, as the architect is
> employed by the builder.
>
never seen an inspector from the client either.... i've heard of it though..
its probably builders or soemthing moonlighting to get a bit of extra dosh
(not liek they need it :)..)
> Who?... DrWho
>
Aaron T
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:27:30 GMT, "Aaron T" <tod...@ses.curtin.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >So you are talking about the council employing someone to go around and
> >check up on the work being done on a site? How much would you pay for
this
> >service? You want it for free.. sorry.
>
> it.
>
It wouldn't actually. There are well known and established methods to do
what you want. Use them! Thats what ppl pay registration dues for.
> >It is your job as a person entering a contract to have your house built
to
> >check as it goes. If you feel you are not getting a good job, then go to
the
> >relevant association and they will get it done, they are not on the
> >tradesmans side they are usually quite impartial.
>
> Your missing my point and my point is that new home owners are not
> qualified to know when most things are not getting done right.
>
> You do not buy a $10,000 dollar car without getting the RAC to come
> out and check it over. If you have any brains you would not. I would
> not want to wait for something to go wrong and then rely on my car
> yard warranty. I also would not think I'm such a smart arse to say
> that I can safely check the car.
>
Yeah, that is a good example. The RAC is akin to the registration boards and
representation from various companies. You will get varying stories but
you'll get a clue and you'll also get a pattern. In the end whatever the
registration board says is what goes and you can't push (as the client) any
further and the tradesman can't back off from that level of work or the laws
that govern him.
> >Bottom line is.. its your job, just as it is with any contract. Get a
clue!
>
> Silly statement Aaron. It takes four yrs to do an apprenticeship and
> you have 10 + trades on a new house and you come out with that?
>
Yeah I do... most trades aren't exactly skilled and those that are have
boards and inspectors that will do what you want for nothing. Come on....
> >Builders have a registration board that I know of. Most of your problems
> >should go through them unless the work is being done piecemeal. Carpentry
is
> >in general a simple thing to check, and in most cases if it is of the
scale
> >where it is out of the general persons knowledge then a builder should be
in
> >control, and the council will have regulations and so a check can be
> >requested.
>
> You must have missed all the problems new home owners have with
> bulders? Why go through the heart ache of getting a new house built to
> find out down the track that things are not quite right? When having a
> council inspector would at least make sure that things are done
> properly.
>
It doesnt' guarantee anything having the council govern builders. The
problems clients usually have with builders is they want more than what they
paid for, its quite simple. As with anything if you go with the cheapest
quote you'll often get the cheapest job.
> The said builder is only on the job for an hr or two a day at the most
> anyway. Paint can hide alot of chippie sins.
>
This is so so true.. Painter is the best trade in teh business to a builder
:)
The builder may b eon the job coupel hours a day (if that) but there boards
and builder himself are available 8 hours a day...
> >Tiling is another thing which is quite simple to check and in reality the
> >only reason not to do it yourself is the tools can be expensive for
> >difficult cuts. I don't see the use in a board for this.
>
> I can do that gov! Give us a job, I can do that heh.
>
True though...
> >Gyprock fixers and jobs of this ilk is another area that doesn't really
> >require a overseeing body. Thing is with this it is usually done only in
> >conjuction with another trade or major renovations/building so the
builder
> >will be overseeing the tradesman.
>
> Is that a fact and you do the checking of a new gyprock ceiling how?
> Bulder is hardly ever on the job. You know this off course.
>
You check a gyprock cieling by looking at it, seeing that it is well fixed
and clean finished. Nothing much else you can check other thanthe structural
integrity which gyprock isn't there to solve. Other things are dampness..
again this is not the gyprock fixers problem.
> >As said above.. it is stupid to do what you propose, it would raise
building
> >costs too much... far too much. In these cases as well you have some guy
> >saying yeah 1 coat satin is all that is needed, when any experienced
painter
> >will tellyou all you are asking for is trouble. Sure thats all that is
> >required, but the job will look crap.
>
> Some guy, as in home owner? I doubt this would happen and most new
> homes only get two coats on the walls anyway. it's in the price, but
> you would know this?
>
Umm, yes it does happen.. quite a bit. Yes most places are for 2 coats but
there are colors that just won't make it. In actuality black is the worst
paint to cover :)... and there have been isntances.. well anyway
You would know being in the industry 20 years!
> Did you know that a painter does not need to show his/her
> apprenticeship papers to get a painters rego? You only have to prove
> that you have been working for someone for four yrs. I know of
> cleaners and the alike that have painters registrations. You can even
> get a union ticket without having to show papers.
>
Yep, but did you know that the painter is liable for his job for up to 2
years if he does it as a registered painter. Of course he doesn't have to
which comes down to getting wha tyou pay for .. .
> >These are all things to be researched BEFORE entering a contract and then
> >you look at the specification and say hey i want this and i want that...
its
> >pretty simple for anyone with half a brain.
>
> You have so much to learn *sigh*.
>
No I don't, you do. People are just lazy.. simple. It is so so so damn
simple to get the information before going into a contract. There are many
boards you can consult, private groups, tradespeople, councils etc...
> >As for pipes being lagged its not nessesary in Perth and the majority of
> >Australia, the climate doesn't call for it. As for priming wet areas top
and
> >bottom its good practice, because you could get damp going either way.
Other
> >way is to use a breathing paint like acrylic so the moisture can make its
> >own way. As for tie downs, its out of my area, but I'm sure within a
couple
> >of days (well minutes) I could have the answer quite simply.
>
> Nothing to do with climate. Lagging protects the pipes Aaron. The
> registration board says it should be done or do you know more than the
> plumbers rego board now?
>
It has every damn thing to do with climate. Do you even know what its for?
Oh yeah of course you do you've been in *the industry* for 20 years.
lagging is insulation for hot water pipes, in the UK the do it on cold water
pipes too to stop cracking and freezing...
learn what you are damn well talking about.. in Australia it is totally
unnesesary and adds cost that isn't required!!
> No one uses acrylic to paint doors in Perth. You cannot get a good
> finish with Acrylic. Where are you getting this crap from? Enamel is
> used. Anyway keep searching for info.
>
You said wet areas... ie in bathrooms, outdoors, toilets etc.. learn your
terms... this is becoming a joke.
> >It comes down to doing your homework and not whinging when you didn't.
>
> No repeats because I've already replied to a similar remark from you.
>
> >Whats that mean? You had one rough brush with one trade and they are all
> >bad? I mean your point about lagging pipes is BS anyway... hasnt been
done
> >on homes for ages.
>
> Read my last post you replied to. I mentioned Queensland and you came
> out with crap about other countries.
>
> Who is feeding you crap? Because you have no clue what you are talking
> about.
>
This coming from you? Oh my god ... I won't comment except for the above.
Your knowledge of the building and trade industries is appalling. A wet area
has virtually nothing to do with doors (i think yo umeant primint under and
above doors, this is done becuase door manufactures have gurantees on doors
not expanding and stuff only valid if bottom and top are primed as well as
faces... )... hilarious really.
> The point of lagging not being done means nothing as it is supposed to
> be done. Painters very rarely galvanise gutters, but it is supposed to
> be done.
>
There is a difference between supposed to and nessesary to.. we galvanise
gutters just because it is good practice, nothing else. Its not nessesary
because they are either galvo steel or more commonly aluminium... both of
which do not corrode very easily at all.
> >Doesn't sound like it... what do you do?
>
> Cheeky. Painter and Decorator.
>
huh.. yeah well you are a crap one, or inexperienced.. told my father about
this stuff (been doing it for about 35 years) he had a good laugh after
reading half your crap.
> Read this post carefully and think before you reply.
>
I did, all it did was confirm my suspicions. After having my father back em
up seems reasonable to say you don't know what you are doing.
> Who?... DrWho
>
Aaron T
have a very poor knowledge of general building practices.. My dad and I
built our entire extension to code (same size as an average house) no
problems.. we got a plumber to do teh plumbing (funny that :)..) and a
sparky to do the wiring, other than that all our own work.
Had a builder do an inspecition then the council.. AOK!
Most painters I know have a very good knowledge of most trades ... they have
to with all the shit they put up with ;)
"DrWho" <drwh...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:3lduqt07ftl3ka12o...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:27:30 GMT, "Aaron T" <tod...@ses.curtin.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >So you are talking about the council employing someone to go around and
> >check up on the work being done on a site? How much would you pay for
this
> >service? You want it for free.. sorry.
>
> Council rates or price of house. In the long term it would be worth
> it.
>
> >It is your job as a person entering a contract to have your house built
to
> >check as it goes. If you feel you are not getting a good job, then go to
the
> >relevant association and they will get it done, they are not on the
> >tradesmans side they are usually quite impartial.
>
> Your missing my point and my point is that new home owners are not
> qualified to know when most things are not getting done right.
>
> You do not buy a $10,000 dollar car without getting the RAC to come
> out and check it over. If you have any brains you would not. I would
> not want to wait for something to go wrong and then rely on my car
> yard warranty. I also would not think I'm such a smart arse to say
> that I can safely check the car.
>
> >Bottom line is.. its your job, just as it is with any contract. Get a
clue!
>
> Silly statement Aaron. It takes four yrs to do an apprenticeship and
> you have 10 + trades on a new house and you come out with that?
>
> >Builders have a registration board that I know of. Most of your problems
> >should go through them unless the work is being done piecemeal. Carpentry
is
> >in general a simple thing to check, and in most cases if it is of the
scale
> >where it is out of the general persons knowledge then a builder should be
in
> >control, and the council will have regulations and so a check can be
> >requested.
>
> You must have missed all the problems new home owners have with
> bulders? Why go through the heart ache of getting a new house built to
> find out down the track that things are not quite right? When having a
> council inspector would at least make sure that things are done
> properly.
>
> The said builder is only on the job for an hr or two a day at the most
> anyway. Paint can hide alot of chippie sins.
>
> >Tiling is another thing which is quite simple to check and in reality the
> >only reason not to do it yourself is the tools can be expensive for
> >difficult cuts. I don't see the use in a board for this.
>
> I can do that gov! Give us a job, I can do that heh.
>
> >Gyprock fixers and jobs of this ilk is another area that doesn't really
> >require a overseeing body. Thing is with this it is usually done only in
> >conjuction with another trade or major renovations/building so the
builder
> >will be overseeing the tradesman.
>
> Is that a fact and you do the checking of a new gyprock ceiling how?
> Bulder is hardly ever on the job. You know this off course.
>
> >As said above.. it is stupid to do what you propose, it would raise
building
> >costs too much... far too much. In these cases as well you have some guy
> >saying yeah 1 coat satin is all that is needed, when any experienced
painter
> >will tellyou all you are asking for is trouble. Sure thats all that is
> >required, but the job will look crap.
>
> Some guy, as in home owner? I doubt this would happen and most new
> homes only get two coats on the walls anyway. it's in the price, but
> you would know this?
>
> Did you know that a painter does not need to show his/her
> apprenticeship papers to get a painters rego? You only have to prove
> that you have been working for someone for four yrs. I know of
> cleaners and the alike that have painters registrations. You can even
> get a union ticket without having to show papers.
>
> >These are all things to be researched BEFORE entering a contract and then
> >you look at the specification and say hey i want this and i want that...
its
> >pretty simple for anyone with half a brain.
>
> You have so much to learn *sigh*.
>
> >As for pipes being lagged its not nessesary in Perth and the majority of
> >Australia, the climate doesn't call for it. As for priming wet areas top
and
> >bottom its good practice, because you could get damp going either way.
Other
> >way is to use a breathing paint like acrylic so the moisture can make its
> >own way. As for tie downs, its out of my area, but I'm sure within a
couple
> >of days (well minutes) I could have the answer quite simply.
>
> Nothing to do with climate. Lagging protects the pipes Aaron. The
> registration board says it should be done or do you know more than the
> plumbers rego board now?
>
> No one uses acrylic to paint doors in Perth. You cannot get a good
> finish with Acrylic. Where are you getting this crap from? Enamel is
> used. Anyway keep searching for info.
>
> >It comes down to doing your homework and not whinging when you didn't.
>
> No repeats because I've already replied to a similar remark from you.
>
> >Whats that mean? You had one rough brush with one trade and they are all
> >bad? I mean your point about lagging pipes is BS anyway... hasnt been
done
> >on homes for ages.
>
> Read my last post you replied to. I mentioned Queensland and you came
> out with crap about other countries.
>
> Who is feeding you crap? Because you have no clue what you are talking
> about.
>
> The point of lagging not being done means nothing as it is supposed to
> be done. Painters very rarely galvanise gutters, but it is supposed to
> be done.
>
> >Doesn't sound like it... what do you do?
>
> Cheeky. Painter and Decorator.
>
> Read this post carefully and think before you reply.
>
> Who?... DrWho
>
Sandgroper
<7THr7.87897$bY5.4...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>boards and inspectors that will do what you want for nothing. Come
on....
Yeah , right ,in what centuary ? , most of these registration boards are
too busy cranking out training videos and contracting their staff out as
consultants to bigger builders .
>It doesnt' guarantee anything having the council govern builders. The
>problems clients usually have with builders is they want more than what
they
>paid for, its quite simple. As with anything if you go with the
cheapest
>quote you'll often get the cheapest job.
Having council inspectors checking on the construction will mean that
there is a completely independant body other than the builder or the
builders registration board , which is more inclined to lean towards the
builder than the client.
But in the end , it is the builder that has to take the sole
responsibility for all the trades work.
All the specs for the house is worked out BEFORE the contract is signed
, it shouldn't matter what the quality of the specs are , the quality of
the job is what counts.
What you will find is that the clients will sign the contract for
certain specs on the building materials and then the builder will take
short cuts.
Buckridge is a builder that was noted for this , he would get a house
pad build using chicken wire for the steel reinforcement.
Stuffed if I would buy any house built by J corp , Perceptions and the
other buckridge home builders.
>> The said builder is only on the job for an hr or two a day at the
most
>> anyway. Paint can hide alot of chippie sins.
>>
>
>This is so so true.. Painter is the best trade in teh business to a
builder
>:)
So is No More Gaps and clear Silicone.
>
>> >Gyprock fixers and jobs of this ilk is another area that doesn't
really
>> >require a overseeing body. Thing is with this it is usually done
only in
>> >conjuction with another trade or major renovations/building so the
>builder
>> >will be overseeing the tradesman.
>>
>> Is that a fact and you do the checking of a new gyprock ceiling how?
>> Bulder is hardly ever on the job. You know this off course.
>>
>
>You check a gyprock cieling by looking at it, seeing that it is well
fixed
>and clean finished. Nothing much else you can check other thanthe
structural
>integrity which gyprock isn't there to solve. Other things are
dampness..
>again this is not the gyprock fixers problem.
ROTFL
Spoken like a hobby handyman.
So what about the flushing and cornice ? and what topping is used ? ,
and what about the sags and lumps ?
Dampness IS a gyprock fixers problem , they can't fix damp gyprock to
the rafters or use them in a wall , and if it's damp/wet , then it has
to be removed.
Have you ever tried to run a shadow line along all 4 walls of a room ??
, ever tried to fit T bars and noggins ? and get them all straight ?, I
doubt it very much , would you even know what they are ?.
>Yep, but did you know that the painter is liable for his job for up to
2
>years if he does it as a registered painter. Of course he doesn't have
to
>which comes down to getting wha tyou pay for .. .
Dr Who is a painter by trade.
>
>No I don't, you do. People are just lazy.. simple. It is so so so damn
>simple to get the information before going into a contract. There are
many
>boards you can consult, private groups, tradespeople, councils etc...
Frigging "boards" , most of these boards are tootless tigers that are
more inclined towards the trade than to the client ,especially the
builders registration board.
Having a council inspector will mean that an independant body that is
not biased towards the builder or trades borad.
Looks like you have been watching too much of these TV programs like
"Hot Property" , "Our House" .....etc , where all the yuppy dickfaces go
running to a "board" to make complaints.
>This coming from you? Oh my god ... I won't comment except for the
above.
>Your knowledge of the building and trade industries is appalling. A wet
area
>has virtually nothing to do with doors (i think yo umeant primint under
and
>above doors, this is done becuase door manufactures have gurantees on
doors
>not expanding and stuff only valid if bottom and top are primed as well
as
>faces... )... hilarious really.
Depends on what type of door being used , you can get some really crappy
cheap doors all the way up to fire doors and doors that have very
expensive wood veneer on them , like in the case of Multiplex's new
office doors at the old Swan Brewery , they are doors that have a very
expensive Sth African wood veneer on them.
>There is a difference between supposed to and nessesary to.. we
galvanise
>gutters just because it is good practice, nothing else. Its not
nessesary
>because they are either galvo steel or more commonly aluminium... both
of
>which do not corrode very easily at all.
Aluminium Gutters ? ROTFL
You mean ZincAlume
Galvanising gutters was done to stop them from rusting , not because "it
is a good practice " and these type of gutters where used because there
was no ZINCALUME gutters until about 20 years ago.
>I did, all it did was confirm my suspicions. After having my father
back em
>up seems reasonable to say you don't know what you are doing.
Looks like you don't know what you are saying , if you have to ask your
daddy
Sandgroper
==========
Remove Quokka for Email
Aaron T
up with builders and chippies and painters and shit as uncles and what have
you...
Dads a fucken proffessional painter, there are a couple of builders in Perth
that won't let anyone else touch their own private houses.
He has a good reputation, and I've worked with him a lot over the years...
he read this guys tripe and laughed it off.
There are painters and there are painters... my dad is a fantastic
tradesman, this DrWho guy is a moron with a paint brush.
Aluminium gutters.. yes.. they are zinc/aluminium gutters so what? The
reasons are the same it doesn't rust... like i said .. corrosion is rust.
yes ppl have complained to builders rego on one of our friends... they told
them to fuck off.. so did the council, they were nitpicking tosspots just
like most clients.
As for knowing what the fittings you mentioned were, no I dont'... not
important in the scheme of this discussion anyway.
Being a painter by trade has nothing to do with being a registered painter.
Councils will not be unbiased and this has been proved time and time again.
Who has teh most money in most cases? Thats who gets the decisions. In the
end it has to be legally upholdable in court and if you have the council
saying one thing and a building registration saying the other its one word
against another. If the builder is liable anf crap (or any trade) then this
would have gone to court without intervention from the council as it is the
clients right.
Seen a few problems where other trades thought that dampness wasn't their
problem. Usually it falls to the painter.
"Sandgroper" <stev...@Quokka.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:3baf5be4$0$22...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
John Chmielewski
>
>never seen an inspector from the client either.... i've heard of it though..
>its probably builders or soemthing moonlighting to get a bit of extra dosh
>(not liek they need it :)..)
>
______________
John Chmielewski
John Chmielewski
>
>Your missing my point and my point is that new home owners are not
>qualified to know when most things are not getting done right.
>
crap I read in PA's, DA's and BLA's for projects far larger than "houses".
______________
John Chmielewski
John Chmielewski
>
>The builder is not always on the job.
>
At the prices for which "project" houses are sold, the builder can't afford to
be. The salesperson makes more per house than does the builder.The builder
works on the "supermarket principle".
The buyers dictate the market as far as "project" housing is concerned.
However, everything considered, "project" houses, on a "bang-for-buck" basis,
are reasonable value; as long as you don't expect perfection. Economies of
scale, screwed subbies, etc account for that.
______________
John Chmielewski
John Chmielewski
>
>Yeah, that is a good example. The RAC is akin to the registration boards and
>representation from various companies.
>
Not in the project house industry, not one iota!.
>
>It doesnt' guarantee anything having the council govern builders. The
>problems clients usually have with builders is they want more than what they
>paid for, its quite simple. As with anything if you go with the cheapest
>quote you'll often get the cheapest job.
>
Councils can't afford to "govern" builders @ the present council rates that we
pay. And why should those in established properties pay for the "newbies"? Why
don't the "newbies" hire independent supervisors ?
One of the problems is that buyers of project houses see a "dressed-up"
display job; when they collect theirs, it's a no-frills, non-landscaped job.
The buyers have often minimised the "frills" etc as well. Also, the buyers
have forgotten the $'s per square metre that they have actually
paid....................minimal..............but in most cases a reasonable
"bang-for their-buck".
"Project" houses provide an alternative to renting for one helluva a lot
of people.
Caveat emptor !
______________
John Chmielewski
John Chmielewski
>
>Buckridge is a builder that was noted for this , he would get a house
>pad build using chicken wire for the steel reinforcement.
>Stuffed if I would buy any house built by J corp , Perceptions and the
>other buckridge home builders.
>
I hope that you have a good solicitor, should LWB ever use his might
to defend his companies.
______________
John Chmielewski
John Chmielewski
>
>I'm just looking at this from the point of view of a painters son whos grown
>up with builders and chippies and painters and shit as uncles and what have
>you...
>
You don't believe me? Visit a court someday........industrial, civil,
criminal etc.......................doesn't matter. Emotion should not cloud
judgement.
That's not to say that discussions (or whatever one wishes to call them) in
this ng are rational.
______________
John Chmielewski
TaLLoN
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:49:19 +0800, M i c C u l l e n
> <nos...@cross.com.au> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Why expect the council to do it? Get your own inspector - it's a much
> >safer system anyway...
>
> Because at the moment clients that have new houses being built have no
> real protection and the council are the best people to look after this
> area.
>
> on. Bigger jobs have Architectures that most likely do this for a fee.
> Would never work on your standard new house, as the architect is
> employed by the builder.
Council Inspectors were around about 15 years ago ( Wanneroo shire) dont
know
what happened to them.I am in the industry and we used to talk with them
all the time.
When I owner built my house in 1982 we had some problems I got a phone call
telling me
what to fix once it was done it was checked again and I got the all clear.
I am a rooftiler and all our work is checked by the manufacturers own
supervisor not the builder.
Joe
>
> Who?... DrWho
>
Sandgroper
>I'm just looking at this from the point of view of a painters son whos
grown
>up with builders and chippies and painters and shit as uncles and what
have
>you...
You should learn how to snip/edit your replies so that people don't have
to download Kbs of useless text and old postings.
>Dads a fucken proffessional painter, there are a couple of builders in
Perth
>that won't let anyone else touch their own private houses.
>
>He has a good reputation, and I've worked with him a lot over the
years...
>he read this guys tripe and laughed it off.
>
>There are painters and there are painters... my dad is a fantastic
>tradesman, this DrWho guy is a moron with a paint brush.
But you are not a professional trademen /construction worker yourself ,
you only work with your father as a part-time casual or whatever.
>Aluminium gutters.. yes.. they are zinc/aluminium gutters so what? The
>reasons are the same it doesn't rust... like i said .. corrosion is
rust.
You need to get your terminology right if you want to put your point
accross , aluminium gutters is not the same as zincalume , you will
never get pure aluminium gutters , and in effect you will never get pure
aluminium anything , it's too soft , what people normaly use for
anything is Durallium.
You also only get galvanised steel gutters , which is steel plated in
Zinc.
:P
>As for knowing what the fittings you mentioned were, no I dont'... not
>important in the scheme of this discussion anyway.
If you are going to discuss a subject , then you should have at least a
idea of the terminology and components discussed in the subjuct.
T bars and noggings are the parts that form the grid in suspended
ceilings and a shadow line are the funny angled lengthes that are nailed
to the wall to support the outer edge of a ceiling tiles.
I used to fix gyprock back in the 1970's , when the gyprock sheets were
nailed on to the rafters with galvanised nails and using bits of
leftover fibro board as a spacer.
Fixing gyprock looks easy , but have you ever tried to bang in a 1" nail
into a rafter while you are underneath it and supporting the gyprock
sheet at the same time ? , it's fairly hard and takes a bit of practice.
>Being a painter by trade has nothing to do with being a registered
painter.
Being a painter by trade means that they have served an apprenticeship
and are working for wages with a employer, a registered painter means a
painter that has served their apprenticeship and has registered
themselves as a subbie/business and are working for themselves.
>Councils will not be unbiased and this has been proved time and time
again.
>Who has teh most money in most cases? Thats who gets the decisions. In
the
>end it has to be legally upholdable in court and if you have the
council
>saying one thing and a building registration saying the other its one
word
>against another. If the builder is liable anf crap (or any trade) then
this
>would have gone to court without intervention from the council as it is
the
>clients right.
I reckon the councils will be less biased than a builder's rego board ,
after all the house/building will be in the councils area and the
building will have to come up to spec for approval , this includes specs
and workmanship .
>Seen a few problems where other trades thought that dampness wasn't
their
>problem. Usually it falls to the painter.
Dampness is a problem to a lot of trades , and not only is there a
problem with wet areas/surfaces , but also the air humidity/dampness has
to be taken into account with painting.
John Chmielewski
huge snip
>
>You need to get your terminology right if you want to put your point
>accross
>
>T bars and noggings are the parts that form the grid in suspended
>ceilings and a shadow line are the funny angled lengthes that are nailed
>to the wall to support the outer edge of a ceiling tiles.
>
I suggest that you have a look @ a dictionary of building terms re noggings &
shadow lines & then have another go. You're only partially correct about the
latter.
______________
John Chmielewski
David M
John Chmielewski <enp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2i21rtkl2qjmkko75...@4ax.com...
> I suggest that you have a look @ a dictionary of building terms re
noggings &
> shadow lines & then have another go. You're only partially correct about
the
> latter.
Rather discerning for an engineer :)
A "shadowline" is the effect relating to the shadow. Architects are often
in love with shadowlines. The actual metal or plastic trim. or the rebate in
timber or stone, or concrete even, in not a shadowline per se, but a
detail which results in a shadowline. That said, I think anyone with any
clue would understand Sandgropers point.
Cheers
David M