[Vnbiz] RE: Content of Vnbiz Digest, Vol 22, Issue 34, #1. Anti-Corruption Law

[#TRAN HAI LINH#]

[Vietnam Business Forum]

[Tran Dinh Hoanh]

[Vietnam Business Forum]



Dear brother Hai Linh & CACC,

Good point, brother Hai Linh. I have heard the "low salary" argument
for several decades. It may sound reasonable on its face, but I am
not sure how valid that argument is.

1. Do we really know anyone who accepts bribe just to make ends meet?
Or do we just hear of a theoretical argument? I personally have not
known anyone one like that through my entire life. Do you know one?
I only know people who get bribe so that they can have more houses,
big houses, and Mercedes, BMW... Show me one who must accept bribes
simply to survive, then I will agree that the argument has some
validity in fact.

2. Even if someone needs money, there are honest ways to make money.
Giving the excuse that people are corrupt because their salary is low
is a definite way to "moralize" an unethical practice.

3. We have a lot of poor people in our nation, does that mean the
majority people in the nation are thieves?

The MOFA Vice-Minister's talk that his salary is lower than the
worker's salary is deceptive. He convenienly forgets all the housing,
transporation and other benefits he gets from his position, which
translates into huge monetary value.

I realize that the salary of government officials in Vietnam should be
higher, and my heart aches for the diffficulties faced by government
workers in a fast changing economy. I agree that the government
should keep the salary somewhat comparable with the average standard
of living to ease government workers' difficulties and to keep good
employees in the government. But low salary is not an excuse for
corruption and bribery, just as poverty is not an excuse for robbery
or thievery. If people don't like the government salary, just
theyhave to quit and move to private sector. There is absolutely no
excuse for corruption and bribery.

These are two separate issues: (1) Low salary makes employees' life
difficult, they become less efficient, and the government loses good
workers. (2) Accepting bribe is unethical and illegal. These two
issues are different and separate. Please do not lump them together.
Otherwise every thief will simply tell the judge: "Your honor, I
steal because I need money for my kids," and expect that the judge
will let him go free.

Let us draw a clear ethical line in our life and do not give ourselves
excuse to allow a grave disease to keep killing the country.

Have a great day, brother Hai Linh and all.

Hoanh
__________

2005/4/28, #TRAN HAI LINH# <linh...@pmail.ntu.edu.sg>:
>
> [Vietnam Business Forum]
>
>
> Dear Anh Hoanh and CACC,
>
> Much as I agree with the valid points that anh Hoanh raised, I tend to think education and power of the press, even the effectiveness of the law enforcement altogether would not help eradicating the problem of corruption. Corruption would still exist as long as the people in charge of running and managing the country and its many provinces, are not sufficiently paid and rewarded.
>
> The Vice Prime Minister claimed that his salary is not as much as a worker of a state company (http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Kinh-doanh/2005/04/3B9DDB1F/). This reflects how badly under-rewarded the civil service sector is officially. People in our country know how hard it is to live on just the "hard" salary. That is the ground for corruption. People have to find one way or another to make ends meet. And you know, when your hands are dirty, you don't mind to get a little bit more dirty. That is why, though disgusting with the big sharks in companies like Vietsopetro, in general, people are more or less tolerant towards bribes and corruption.
>
> I am living in Singapore, one of the most transparent and clean countries in the world. And the crucial reason is that their founding father LKY decided decades ago that the ministers' salaries should be comparable (not equal) to those in the private sector. Lee Kuan Yew also mentioned that if one wants to be rich, he should not go into politics. Still, it must be assured that people don't get starved doing politics either. I just don't see the reason to be clean in a country where the official salaries of the ones responsible for millions of dollars or the lives of millions of people are paid less than a worker.
>
> And that would bring up the point of wage restructure and public service system reorganization and retrenchment, which takes long time to progress.
>
> In retrospect, I agree with the many points proposed by anh Hoanh. This is just my 2-cent to add on this topic.
>
> With my regards,
>
> Tran Hai Linh.
>
--
Tran Dinh Hoanh, LLB, JD
Attorney at Law
Washington DC
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[Dyung Le]

[Vietnam Business Forum]



Dear all,

This topic has come up for discussion before and anh Hoang made exactly the
same points he did then that he does now. I used to agree with him.

I've since changed my mind. I believe one has to be pragmatic. Speaking just
for myself, I'm not greedy if the chance for a gain is $1,000, 10,000 or
even $100,000. But at a $1,000,000 I'll start getting interested! :-) This
is especially true if I can see how pervasive and easy it is!

If the price of a corruption free bureaucracy is comparable salary between
the public and private sector, then so be it. I think it's a cheap way to
get there. If Singapore has done well by that model, I don't think I want to
dispute that.

I agree that ethics can be black-and-white, but human behavior is not.
Please be clear that my point has nothing to do with moral or ethics, on
which I agree with anh Hoang. It's just a practical point.

The problem that I see however is that in VN, the civil servants are not
always selected based on merit, but rather based on who you know. No amount
of salary change is going to fix this. In the US, the top level appointees
are selected by the President, but the overwhelming majority below are part
of a system of selection that is competitive, well-structured and pretty
transparent. Good or bad, it's still a system that prevents undue influence.

In brief, I'm advocating a systemic reform where salary competitiveness,
merit based promotion and selection, rules transparency, strict control,
public feedback and ethical promotion all have a role to play.

As a final point, I firmly believe that corruption can be eliminated in VN.
It may take a while and may require different approaches, but it can be
done. For a state like VN where the investigative arm is very efficient,
it's simply ridiculous to say that the government does not know. What's
lacking is a will. Any other excuse is just window dressing.

Regards,

Dyung Le





----Original Message Follows----
From: Tran Dinh Hoanh <tdh...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: vn...@vietlinks.net
To: vn...@vietlinks.net
Subject: Re: [Vnbiz] Anti-Corruption Law
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:30:22 -0400