DECUServe Journal February
Sharon Frey
=====================
February 1994
Table of Contents
-----------------
Technical Information .......................... 40
Articles
Datatrieve v6.0-1 bugs, problems ............ 2
Computer room power conditioners and UPSs ... 5
PUNs ........................................ 16
Encrypting a disk at the physical level ..... 22
Upgrading to VMS VAX V6.0 ................... 27
February DECUServe Journal Page: 2
Datatrieve v6.0-1 bugs, problems
--------------------------------
The following article is an extract of the DECUServe
4gls_And_Query_Tools conference topic 170. The discussion
occurred between November 5, 1992 and September 29, 1993.
By Carl Friedberg and Chris Wool
(11/05/92 Friedberg)
--------------------
Problems with DTR Release 6.0-1
We recently upgraded a VMS 5.5-1 system from RdB 4.0a, CDD 4.3, DTR 5.1 to
RdB 4.1, CDD/Rep. 5.1 DTR 6.0-1.
While we have not yet tested any of the new features we did find a bug
which broke thousands of existing procedures.
Consider a dictionary table:
DTR> show tables
Tables:
* STATUS;1
DTR> show status
TABLE STATUS USING
00:"BAD"
01:"GOOD"
END_TABLE
DTR>
This table will be accessed using a logical "STATUS_TABLE".
In DTR 5.1, you could say:
Print "01" via STATUS_TABLE (-) using xxxx
In DTR 6.0, this produces the message:
%CDD-E-INVOPNPAR, path name contains an invalid open parenthesis
The necessary workaround we found is
Print ("01" via STATUS_TABLE) (-) using xxxx
A session log follows:
Welcome to VMS V5.5-1
Username: FRIEDBERG
Password:
VAX 4000 Model 300 node TURKEY
February DECUServe Journal Page: 3
$ dtr
VAX DATATRIEVE V6.0
Digital Query and Report System
Type HELP for help
DTR> show dictionary
The default directory is _CDD$TOP.DTR$USERS.FRIEDBERG
DTR> show tables
Tables:
* STATUS;1
DTR> show status
TABLE STATUS USING
00:"BAD"
01:"GOOD"
END_TABLE
DTR> print "01" via status (-) using xxxx
GOOD
DTR> fn$create_log("STATUS_TABLE","CDD$TOP.DTR$USERS.FRIEDBERG.STATUS")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("STATUS_TABLE") using t(70)
FN$TRANS
LOG
CDD$TOP.DTR$USERS.FRIEDBERG.STATUS
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
%CDD-E-INVOPNPAR, path name contains an invalid open parenthesis
DTR>
Exit
$ log
FRIEDBERG logged out at 4-NOV-1992 17:27:26.28
(11/06/92 Wool: The problem is very strange)
---------------------------------------------
The problem is even stranger than you describe. I was playing with it and
was able to get it to work sometimes. It looks like something gets reset once
a relative path is used.
Have you reported this to DEC?
DTR> show dictionary
The default directory is _CDD$TOP.WOOL
February DECUServe Journal Page: 4
DTR> show tables
Tables:
* STATUS;1
DTR> show status
TABLE STATUS USING
00:"BAD"
01:"GOOD"
END_TABLE
DTR> fn$create_log("status_table","cdd$top.wool.status")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("status_table")
FN$TRANS
LOG
cdd$top.wool.status
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
%CDD-E-INVOPNPAR, path name contains an invalid open parenthesis
DTR> fn$create_log("status_table","_cdd$top.wool.status")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("status_table")
FN$TRANS
LOG
_cdd$top.wool.status
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
%CDD-E-INVOPNPAR, path name contains an invalid open parenthesis
DTR> fn$create_log("status_table","status")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("status_table")
FN$TRANS
LOG
status
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
GOOD
DTR> fn$create_log("status_table","_cdd$top.wool.status")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("status_table")
FN$TRANS
LOG
_cdd$top.wool.status
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
GOOD
February DECUServe Journal Page: 5
DTR> fn$create_log("status_table","cdd$top.wool.status")
DTR> print fn$trans_log("status_table")
FN$TRANS
LOG
cdd$top.wool.status
DTR> print "01" via status_table (-) using xxxx
GOOD
(11/06/92 Friedberg: DTR is Caching logical name translations?)
----------------------------------------------------------------
It seems that Datatrieve does cache the translation. I'm not sure I
understand how or why the caching does what it does, but if you do a FINISH or
EXIT after each test and start over, the failure is 100%. Yes, we have
reported it to CSC, they helped us find out exactly what was happening, and
today they were writing the SPR for submission to engineering. At my request,
they marked it as "SERIOUS IMPACT ON OUR SYSTEM".
I hate upgrades which break working code.
Also, the V6.0 installation renamed our previous user defined function
.mar and .olb files to .old, and rebuilt DTR without our procedures; this is
also being written up (it is supposed to retain them if they are in DTRFND.
MAR and DTRFUN.OLB.)
(29/09/93 Friedberg: 6.1 fixes this (and some others) but wait for the MUP)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The release notes show that most, if not all, of the problems we ran
into in DTR 6.0 have been addressed in 6.1.
I strongly urge those of you who (like me) no longer get hardcopy to
dig into the NEW FEATURES manual -- there are some nice things. Also,
see my note re AlphaAXP, which I haven't entered yet (next thing to do)
Computer room power conditioners and UPSs
-----------------------------------------
The following article is an extract of the DECUserve
Hardware_Help conference topic 260. The discussion occurred
between January 3, 1989 and October 7, 1993.
By George Merriman, Tom Provost, Beverly Kasper, Bill Tabor, Tim Gardner,
Ed Cetron, Bart Lederman, Seton Droppers, Terry Kennedy, Barton Bruce,
Jamie Hanrahan, Dale Coy, Stu Fuller, Bob Koskovich, Chuck McMichael,
Tom McIntyre, Jorma Tapola, Bill Mayhew, Calvin Diddle, ___???___ Gaarder,
Kevin Roels, Billy Youdelman, Rytis Balciunas, ___???___ Christenson,
Bill Wood
February DECUServe Journal Page: 6
(01/03/89 Merriman)
-------------------
I have extracted the following notes from POWER TOPICS in order to start a
separate discussion on computer room power conditioners and uninterruptable
power supplies. This is to support the new title search facility.
(07/21/87 Provost: POWER GATE)
-------------------------------
We have found that preceding and following many power failures the power
often fluctuates violently. It has been our practice to shut down all computer
systems at the first hint of impending power fail, and to start them only
after the power is smooth for some period of time. I remember hearing of a
device built by a Florida company which would do this automatically. It
provided the ability to set the time interval over which power must be bad
before shutdown, the time interval over which power must be good before
turn-on, and the definitions of good and bad power. Can anyone remind me who
made the device and what it was called? Has anyone had experience with
similar devices?
(07/21/87 Provost: POWER CONDITIONING DEVICES)
-----------------------------------------------
Knowing we were going to have power problems in a newly constructed
computer area, we purchased and implemented a TOPAZ 35KVA power controller.
After a period of lightning storms several devices would fail inexplicably and
repeatedly in the area. When replaced, they would fail again. Eventually the
TOPAZ would fail. The TOPAZ would then be bypassed until repair could be
arranged (usually several months.) Once by-passed, everything would work.
This process repeated every year around lightning season. Eventually we
put in a switch enabling us to by-pass the power controller easily. Still
later we stopped repairing it.
I heard later that high voltage spikes had been detected in the output of
such devices in their failure mode. This would explain our experience.
Now the point: Has anyone successful experience with later models of this
device, or with some other similar device?
(07/21/87 Kasper: Liebert products have served us well)
--------------------------------------------------------
When we built a new facility about 1-1/2 years ago, we installed a pair of
Liebert Datawave Power Conditioners. They've been quite reliable, and aside
from the fact that we need a UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply), they meet our
needs admirably. THey're controlled from a common console.
The Liebert air conditioners in the room hook up to the same console, which
has a piercing alarm horn. The power conditioners can be configured to
restart if power comes up, or to stay down until manually reset (the option we
chose, since we often get fluctuations here). The air units don't go through
the power conditioners, so they come right back on when power comes up. This
is useful, since it sometimes warms up a lot during the outage.
This whole mess is also hooked up to the Halon system, which shuts off the
air and power if Halon is discharged.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 7
What I think would be ideal for us is exactly this configuration plus a
5-10 minute UPS. This would allow us to ride brownouts, and to bring the
systems down gracefully if it looked like we were in for a wait.
(07/21/87 Tabor: Motor generator)
----------------------------------
Living in thunderstorm alley, getting power from Florida Plunder and loot,
and having been the manager of a site where my DEC field service people wanted
to know if Planet Earth was grounded here, the solution to our power problem
was a motor generator and power distribution system from a company called EPE
in Calif.
After we installed this unit we went for 6 months with out a system crash.
We used to average 2 to 3 weeks between major hardware failures.
(07/22/87 Gardner: Funny you should ask...)
--------------------------------------------
>After a period of lightning storms several devices would fail inexplicably
>and repeatedly in the area. When replaced, they would fail again. Eventually
>the TOPAZ would fail.
Gee, there are times when some corroboration is nice. Unfortunately, this
isn't one of them. We have had numerous problems with our 50KVA Topaz unit,
several of which sound similar to yours. Most recently, the RA81 failed twice
and the RA60 shortly after that, all with failures in the drive power supplies.
Typical you say. Random failures you say. Infant mortality you say. Well
just for fun, consider that each of the failures were detected when we powered
up the systems after the Topaz shut down. Coincedence? I don't think so.
We have had other failures, mostly involving Topaz shutdowns for no apparent
reason (no lightning in the area, other power conditioners in the building
don't have any trouble.)
I had previously believed that we simply had a lemon flavored Topaz. After
reading .3 I'm not so sure anymore.
(07/30/87 Cetron: dec cvc's are wonderfull...)
-----------------------------------------------
We have been using dec's CVC's for 4-6 years now and have yet to blow
anything due to passed thru power problems (and next door in CS, they have
gone through 2 eagles and an ra80...)
We did have some problems with very low voltages upping the currents due to
the 'regulation' nature of the cvc and having nominal 20amp machines draw 30+
amps....this has been fixed (don't electricians have any pride in their work??))
Also, the new dranetz's that digital uses are fully digital and do
everything but monitor the atmospheric charge density of mars ...the last time
we had one on, we had a state wide power failure and I have a beautiful log of
the power slowly sagging to 30 volts and then surging to 700 volts on a 120
volt line....nothing was seen on the other side of the cvc.....I laugh
everytime we have a less than 1 sec dropout and my computers are the only ones
which stay up..... (out of almost 100 around campus...)
February DECUServe Journal Page: 8
(07/30/87 Lederman: If you really want reliable power..)
---------------------------------------------------------
> (don't electricians have any pride in their work??))
No, they don't. Whenever we had new wiring done we had to check it
ourselves to see that they didn't put the circuit breaker in the neutral line,
or wire the hot lead to the ground pin of the power plug. (I think the
electricians we have now are better).
We have to operate 24 hours a day, every day, no matter what. Con Ed power
goes through transformers and is rectified to DC, where it "floats" over banks
of 48 volt lead-acid batteries. It then goes through inverters which convert
it back to 120/208 Volt AC power for the computers, modems, fire alarms, and
other essential equipment. Even if Con Ed dies completely, everything keeps
running until the gas turbine generators come on-line. (In less critical
applications, it might be enough to just have 10 minutes of battery capacity
without the generators, if you want to ride out short outages, or just have
enough time to shut down cleanly after saving to disk/tape, etc.) No matter
what comes in on the power line this system can handle it. If there is a long
outage we can switch in some lights, and even feed power to the elevators if
we have to (no joke in a 33 story building).
Equally important: we run practice drills periodically (on weekends, when
there is relatively little demand on the systems) where power is deliberately
cut and we see if the system really works. One of our competitors had a
nearly identical power system but had never tested it "all the way" as we had,
so when a real power failure hit...
We also shut down and disconnect 1/2 of each redundant system before these
tests just in case there is a transient that damages something.
(08/05/87 Droppers: UPS, New Buildings, elbows, etc.)
------------------------------------------------------
Here at PBS we feel it would be highly impolite (embarrassing?) to all of
a sudden drop the feed of your favorite PBS show. In response we have
installed an UPS (15 minutes) and backup generator (no not gas turbine, simply
diesel). All of this worked fine during our "live" tests when we cut power to
the technical center. Only problem was when the commercial power went out
during one of the areas more impressive thunder boombers the A/C units dropped
out. Before we got power back it approached 85 in the computer room. The
problem turned out to be that the generator kicked in so quickly that the A/C
could not recycle and restart. Repairs are underway to add a delay to the A/C
unit startup.
We have never had any down time due to comercal power loss, only when a
contracters go-fer hit the emergancy power button for the computer room...
(At least they didn't try to find out what happened when they pulled the halon
release...)
Remember:
. Cover your switch
. Attempt to test not only your technical center/computer room,
but, if you can, try shutting the whole building off
February DECUServe Journal Page: 9
. Your UPS/generator is only as good as your A/C, (at least in
long run)
(10/08/87 Merriman)
-------------------
>I had previously believed that we simply had a lemon flavored Topaz. After
>reading .3 I'm not so sure anymore.
I once had a Topaz power unit that went unstable during a brown-out and
faded the output line voltage between 0 and 90 volts at a rate of about one
second. I'm sure that did the disk drive a lot of good.
Speaking of power conditioners, can anyone tell me why it is that I can
buy a box to set next to my computer to filter out all the glitches that my
computer maker claims will ruin his fancy computer but that same computer
maker can't build the same functionality into his equipment's power supplies?
(10/10/87 Kennedy: Cost is the main (only) factor)
---------------------------------------------------
Well, I used to be one of those computer manufacturers (president of one,
even - who let me in?) and this was one I was asked many, many times. So, here
is the recorded explanation:
Back when computers were very expensive, it made good sense to include a
many-thousand dollar piece of power conditioning gear with the system. Many
systems of that period required odd power, anyway, so the power conditioner
could double as the power supply. For example, my old IBM 370/138 had a
motor-generator set which eliminated sags/spikes as well as providing the 400
Hz power the system required.
Yet, today, computers have reduced in size and cost far more rapidly than
useful power protection gear, which is still largely mechanical (witness
motor/generators, batteries, etc.) When the vendor is selling a $10,000
computer the $2,500 for a good, solid UPS is 1/4 the price, or maybe all of the
profit.
People also ask - why $2,500 for a UPS - I can go to Radio Shack or some
place like that and get the same protection for $29.95. The answer is, it is
nowhere near the same protection. The 30-dollar box will filter out maybe 1/2
to 2/3 of your minor power line spikes, but does nothing for dips or
surges/sags. The $2,500 unit will keep your MicroVAX running during a complete
power outage, as well!
[Note - I no longer sell systems or UPS gear - in fact I now buy them! I
do have definite experience with many popular units - if anyone wants to sit
through a sermon on what works and what doesn't (and why), MAIL me a note and
I'll post another reply here]
(04/06/89 Bruce: pointer to related note 262.8)
------------------------------------------------
Now that POWER stuff has been split up it isn't always clear where to post
things, as spikes or lighting bolts or phoneline spikes can get your computer
room as well as your PC, and similar or even identical protective hardware
applies.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 10
262.8 perhaps should have been here, so don't skip it just cuz its in a
'PC' thread and you have no PCs.
(04/27/90 Hanrahan: Power conditioners considered harmful (sometimes))
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whenever I notice the work light over my desk flicker, I can count on
two things:
1. The MicroVAX 3600 in the computer room -- which is on a power
conditioner -- will go down and reboot.
2. The uV3400 in my office -- which is plugged into an ordinary
old wall socket -- will sail through the power glitch and never
notice.
Note that these machines use identical power supplies (H7868-A), and the
supplies are loaded similarly.
Is it possible that the power conditioner might be amplifying certain types
of glitches???
(04/27/90 Coy: No free lunch, as usual)
----------------------------------------
Yes, power conditioners can sometimes make things work.
One particular "problem" is caused by ferro-resonant conditioners that
are under-loaded. It's usually best if this type of conditioner is used at
close to full capacity (say 80% load or so). You might check the "rating" on
the conditioner, and the actual load.
If you supply more info about the conditioner, we might get a betteranswer.
There are lots of types, and lots of possibilities.
(04/29/90 Fuller)
-----------------
One other possible difference is that the computer room may be fed from
one circuit, while the office area may be fed from another.
The scenario you mentioned occurs occasionally here, except in reverse.
The computer room sails thru it, while the terminals in the office reset.
Also, in the computer room, we have a 50KVA PDS and a 100KVA PDS. The
systems connected to the 100KVA box tend to ride out glitches better than on
the 50KVA box. The 50KVA box has around 45KVA of gear on it (when all the
tape drives are running), while the 100KVA box is around 38KVA usage.
(04/29/90 Coy: PDS doesn't usually do conditioning)
----------------------------------------------------
Note that the average PDS (such as DEC's) doesn't try to do a lot of
power _conditioning_ (the original question). There's a transformer with
electrostatic shielding (usually), but no real conditioning, transient
protection, etc.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 11
(04/29/90 Hanrahan: Good guess, but ... try again, please.)
------------------------------------------------------------
>One other possible difference is that the computer room may be fed from
>one circuit, while the office area may be fed from another.
But I can see the glitch in the office-area lighting. One of the lights in
question (work light) is plugged into the same outlet as the computer. No,
the entire building is being "glitched".
(10/23/92 Koskovich: UPS ideas for a small system?)
----------------------------------------------------
After 2.5 years, it's time to wake up this sleepy topic!
We're a small site (MV3100) and the man with the money has finally come
to grips with the value of installing a UPS system.
Any recommendations or horror stories about vendors and their products
in the 2-3kVA range?
I'm planning to hang essentially my whole machine room off this UPS
(MicroVAX & disk/tape, console & printer, a DS200, work terminal, a couple of
modems). Any suggestions about what I should/shouldn't include on this list?
(10/23/92 McMichael: A bright idea)
------------------------------------
A flashlight. It's very hard to read the system console when the only
source of illumination in the computer room is the "Drive Ready" lights ;-)
(10/23/92 McIntyre: We use them only for orderly shutdown)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Generally a small ups is only good to give you time for an orderly
shutdown. Therefore, it is a wasted resource to put anything on it that is
not required in the shutdown process. In particular, your printer comes to
mind.
The less you hang on it the longer you have to survive the power loss
and/or get everything turned off.
(10/24/92 Tapola: Long or Short power failure?)
------------------------------------------------
You have to consider, what kind of power failure your are trying to protect
your system against.
Typical power failure in our area is so called quick reconnection, less
than 1 s. For those you might plug everything in to UPS, to make boot and
recovery unnecessary.
For longer brakes your should consider UPS that gives information out on
RS-232 for VAX to make necessary shutdown operations automatically. At least
in Finland there is Digital program for Fiskars UPS units to do that.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 12
(10/24/92 Mayhew: DEC's product seems to be good)
--------------------------------------------------
We chose the UPS DEC sells (not DEC-branded... Exide? It's in DECdirect,
whatever it is) for a client site installation about 9 months ago. It was
called into service yesterday, and worked quite well... provided about double
the rated "uptime" (which I truly treat as gravy, not something I would ever
count on).
One terminal wouldn't work (i.e. couldn't raise the DECserver) when the
power and the system finally came back up. Don't know what that was about;
DEC has been called.
We chose the DEC-supported product because it's DEC-supported, which is
valuable when the site has DEC service and no native technical expertise.
I agree with the advice of putting as little on it as possible. We put
one dial-in modem, the console terminal, and the system on it. The DECservers
are not on it (since the terminals/printers they're connected to aren't).
This is an MV3100/10E system with an external RZ25 and a 1KVA UPS and it stayed
up for over a half-hour.
(10/25/92 Koskovich: The muddy water is clearing a little...)
--------------------------------------------------------------
>Generally a small ups is only good to give you time for an orderly shutdown.
>Therefore, it is a wasted resource to put anything on it that is not required
>in the shutdown process. In particular, your printer comes to mind.
Good point about the "orderly shutdown" rationale. That's exactly what
I'm using. The printer I referred to is the _console_ printer (console is a
VT220); since I'd kind of like to see what the shutdown looked like, I think
it's necessary.
With a little reconfiguring, though, I think I can drop the DECserver and
3 of the 4 modems. (The remaining modem will allow the system to beep me when
it dies.)
>Typical power failure in our area is so called quick reconnection, less than
>1 s. For those you might plug everything in to UPS, to make boot and recovery
>unnecessary.
For the most part, when we lose power, it's gone for a while. But they
claim that power quality in the US is dropping fast, so it may not be long
before we start seeing more-frequent, shorter failures.
>For longer brakes your should consider UPS that gives information out on
>RS-232 for VAX to make necessary shutdown operations automatically.
Definitely. I already have two detached processes running which will
provide wonderful skeletons from which to build my UPS-monitoring command
procedure. :-) I've come across one brand (Liebert?) which offers VMS-based
software, but I have yet to ask what that gains me over just "rolling my own"
with DCL.
>put one dial-in modem, the console terminal, and the system on it. The
>DECservers are not on it (since the terminals/printers they're connected to
>aren't).
February DECUServe Journal Page: 13
Sounds basically like what I'll do. (Our network is supported by hubs,
so all of those, and the terminal servers, and the terminals/printers will "go
away", so no use keeping anything network-related alive.)
> It was called into service yesterday...
Sadly, mine would have been also. :-(
L.A. got some downright-Midwestern thunderstorm activity last night, and
we lost power for about 45 minutes. (I bailed out when So Cal Edison said it
could take hours.)
So, I'm spending a pleasant Saturday night putting the pieces back together
and trying to redo our end-of-period processing, all of which died and left me
in a _very_ dark office last night.
Perhaps my cries for a UPS system and emergency lighting will both carry a
little more weight now?
(10/25/92 Tapola: Short failures are quality?)
-----------------------------------------------
To my understanding, long failures are due to poor quality design of
power network, lack of alternative ways of supplying electricity.
Short failures are due to working alternative lines, but not quick enough
for computers.
Last long power failure at our site (over 1 min) was about 4 year ago.
>I've come across one brand (Liebert?) which offers VMS-based software, but I
>have yet to ask what that gains me over just "rolling my own" with DCL.
Sorry I can't help your, probably only benefit it support.
We are running at our site 30 min UPS (many KVA VAX 9000, VAX 6320, VAX
8550, 30 RA disks n* mikrovax... you get the idea) and UPS is needed for only
1 min, after that starts Diesel generator - you newer guess that we are owned
by largest electricity producer in Finland. Only problem is that Air
conditioning isn't fed by UPS, and usually it won't start after any kind of
power failure!
(10/26/92 Koskovich: It all depends on what you call "short"...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>To my understanding, long failures are due to poor quality design of power
>network, lack of alternative ways of supplying electricity. Short failures
>are due to working alternative lines, but not quick enough for computers.
I understand and agree with what you're saying.
I was referring to "short" as something that a UPS could handle reasonably
(admittedly a gray area). To me, "long" is what we're seeing now, usually on
the order of an hour or more.
>... owned by largest electricity producer in Finland. Only problem is that
>Air conditioning isn't fed by UPS, and usually it won't start after any kind
>of power failure!
February DECUServe Journal Page: 14
Sounds like a meeting I went to recently at the DWP headquarters. (DWP
is the city-run power "company" for Los Angeles.) They were having trouble
getting power to the auditorium's air conditioning. Of course, if you don't
like it, you can just find yourself another electric utility! :-)
(10/26/92 Diddle: Don't forget der vind)
-----------------------------------------
>... Only problem is that Air conditioning isn't fed by UPS, and usually it
>won't start after any kind of power failure!
This one bit me! Remember when the AC goes off the air conditioning and
air handlers do too. Our UPS system supports the CPU's for our automated test
equipment, printers and ect. for about 10min. and then drops everything except
a key PDP and the VAX that collects the data. However, for long outages the
equipment heats the computer room to the point our environmental monitor shuts
things down instead. So if you need long term support do some heatload
calculations and include an alternate power source for the air handlers and/or
air conditioning.
(10/26/92 Gaarder: We use a UPS on a 3100)
-------------------------------------------
We have a MV3100-20e with about 6 terminal servers, 8 SCSI disks, and four
tape drives. We use a 2 Kva UPS ( ican get details, and whether it is offline
or standby). It runs through at least a 30 minute "pull the plug" test with
no problems.
I disagree about not hooking up the terminal servers, since you can connect
back to your session if the server stays up and the terminal goes down, just
like powering the terminal off to reset some hard error condition. About the
only glitch comes if the user is really depending on "session 1" on the VT420
getting hooked up to what "session 1" was originally hooked up to on the VAX.
On the other hand, I don't know how a VT1200 comes out.
(10/26/92 Gaarder: and then there are generators...)
-----------------------------------------------------
I meant to mention another thought that we have had regarding UPS time. I
don't have the expertise to know how well this would work, but I think it
might be OK.
For longer periods of power outage, we have thought about buying a 2 KW
portable generator (Honda,etc.) and firing it up to feed the UPS after about
25 minutes into the outage.
Any comments as to whether the power out of such a generator would be
"clean" enough?
(10/26/92 Roels: UPS 'should' handle....)
------------------------------------------
I would hope that the conditioning present in your UPS is good enough to
handle the output of a name brand generator. If not, I'd question just how
good of a condition/UPS you got....
February DECUServe Journal Page: 15
(10/27/92 Tapola: Air conditioning jams)
-----------------------------------------
>point our environmental monitor shuts things down instead. So if you need long
>term support do some heatload calculations and include an alternate power
>source for the air handlers and/or air conditioning.
We have battery UPS and Diesel generator. Computers are connected to the
UPS (battery UPS is fed by Diesel generator automatically after about 1 min).
Air conditioning is fed only by Diesel generator, so it fill suffer about 1
min outages. Air conditioning is fancy and controlled by Microprocessor ;-)
Guess which processor is jammed after any power failure.
(10/27/92 Youdelman)
--------------------
>Any comments as to whether the power out of such a generator would be "clean"
>enough?
A friend of mine still running a similarly sized operation on a Honda 3500
watt portable generator in Hawaii says it works ok as long as there are no
"cycling motor loads along with the computers.."
(10/27/92 Balciunas: My experience with Exide)
-----------------------------------------------
>We chose the UPS DEC sells (not DEC-branded... Exide? It's in DECdirect,
>whatever it is) for a client site installation about 9
My experience with "non-DEC" Exide UPS:
I took the risk of getting and installing a pair of Exide 8kVA UPSs,
installed by a local electrical firm. No DEC involvement whatsoever. The
electricians knew what they were doing, and really did a top-notch job (they
CHARGED enough, too..). Job took all day... As murphy would have it, one of
the UPSs refused to go from BYPASS to "NORMAL". This was late on a Saturday.
I took a wild chance and called Exide's 800 number. WHAT A PLEASANT SURPRISE:
the person took down my name, number, and the symptoms, and said that someone
will be getting right back to me.. (Yeah, right!). Not 10 minutes later, I got
a call from a service engineer, who knew every nut, bolt, and electronic
component in the box... Turns out the unit's electronics were not "right", so
someone would be on-site Monday. The engineer arrived ON TIME, fixed the
problem. NO CHARGE, NO HASSLE ABOUT "You are not in our system, so we can't
support you", etc... The units are covered under Exide's 2 year warranty. And
I actually get a call from them every few months to see how they are working.
(10/02/93 Koskovich: How 'bout we try this one again?)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any recommendations or horror stories about vendors and their products
February DECUServe Journal Page: 16
(10/04/93 Christenson: We have Liebert)
----------------------------------------
Recently installed a Liebert 75kVA unit in out room. Found it on the used
market for less than half the list price. It had been under mfg. maintenance
since day 1. Our goal was to provide UPS power to the data center AND the
desktop to eliminate the interruptions being experienced by momentary power
glitches caused by lightning or ice/wind. This helps us avoid the hour to
hour and a half cluster reboots/Pathworks file servers rebuilds that were
occuring because of a 1 to 2 second power glitch. We needed only 4 of thoses
events to occur in a four year period in order to justify financially the cost.
We have already experienced three since the unit went online the middle of June.
Disclaimer: The parent company that owns my company also owns Liebert.
(10/07/93 Wood: UPS need maintenance too.)
-------------------------------------------
Slightly off your question, but be careful about the maintenance contract
you get for your UPS. We found out the hard way the day smoke started pouring
out of one of our UPS. Apparently replacement of the battery cells was not
part of our maintenance contract, and no one had noticed that the cells had
exceeded their recommended life span.
Smoke from a smoldering battery is pretty nasty stuff. Fortunately
shutting down the UPS, and taking the cell off line after it cooled, ended the
incident.
PUNs
----
The following article is an extract of the DECUServe
Hobbies_And_Interests conference topic 102. This discussion
occurred between March 22, 1993 and August 5, 1993.
By Jane Furze, Galen Tackett, Rick Carter, Mark Shumaker, David Mischler,
Rob Brown, Jamie Hanrahan, Deb Baddorf, John Burnet, Dave Jerome, Brian Tillman,
Malcolm Dunnett, Richard Norman, Bret Wortman, Arnold DeLarisch, Curt Snyder,
Charlie Luce Jr., Rick Morrison, Bruce Bowler, Lee Gleason
(03/22/93 Furze)
----------------
I'm starting a stream for puns so those who
who claim they cannot stand them
can claim to be doing a keypad ,
without reading them.
(03/22/93 Furze: #1)
---------------------
What did the budist say to the dentist?
February DECUServe Journal Page: 17
No anesthetic, thank you. I can transcend dental medication.
(03/22/93 Furze: #2)
---------------------
What do you call a pessimistic Californian who happens to be an renowned
expert on the subject of bad breath?
Super-Calif-fatalistic-expert-halitosis
(03/22/93 Tackett: Beached Burger)
-----------------------------------
What do you get when you're having a barbecue at the beach and the meat
falls out of your hamburger?
Sandi Patti
(A Christian recording artist, in case you don't recognize the name.)
(03/23/93 Carter)
-----------------
Did you see the headline about the dwarf psychic who escaped from prison?
Small Medium at Large
(03/23/93 Shumaker)
-------------------
I was recently in a small upscale town in southern California, staying with
an acquaintence who lived near the old-money neighborhood. There was one man
who kept a pet lion (an old one who was quite laid back), and another who kept
dolphins in his pool. That kind of neighborhood. Now, the dolphins were not
just your common bottle-nosed variety, but they had been in the family for
many generations -- when great-great-great-grandfather Ephriam had been running
a whaling ship out of Gloucester, he had come across them near the Seychelles
and had brought back a pair. The unique thing about these dolphins was that,
if they were fed a red-footed gull every few weeks, they would live forever.
So, their present owner returned one day from a successful red-footed gull
hunt. As he came up the walk, he noticed that the lion from next door was
lying asleep across the walk. While stepping carefully over the lion, he was
immediately arrested by a team of police, and charged with transporting gulls
across a staid lion for immortal porpoises.
(03/23/93 Mischler: A short one... )
-------------------------------------
I have always wanted to meet a city-dwelling dwarf who was willing to refer
to himself as a metro-gnome.
Especially if he is never late.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 18
(03/24/93 Brown: Get out your dictionaries)
--------------------------------------------
Might not actually be a pun, but ...
Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac?
He was up all night wondering if there was a dog!
Credit: Mark Johnson (Past President of DECUS Canada) posted this on
the DECUS Canada system.
(03/24/93 Hanrahan: That reminds me of... )
--------------------------------------------
A guy who lives down the street used to be into flagellation, necrophilia,
and bestiality -- but eventually he realized he was just beating a dead horse.
(03/24/93 Baddorf: This one struck my fancy)
---------------------------------------------
From the net, a bit ago (around inauguration time):
Q: What kind of computer music will President Clinton play on his saxophone?
A: Al Gore rhythms.
--- Cornell U Linguistics Dept
(03/24/93 Burnet: (You have nothing to lose but your shoelaces...))
--------------------------------------------------------------------
That reminds me of the bumper sticker that says:
Dyslexics of the world, untie!
(03/24/93 Jerome: Kinda long, but I like it)
---------------------------------------------
Don't remember where I got this...
PRILEP, Yugoslavia (AP) - Outside a small Macedonian village close to the border
between Greece and strife-torn Yugoslavia, a lone Catholic nun keeps a quiet
watch over a silent convent. She is the last caretaker of the site of
significant historical developments spanning more than 2,000 years.
When Sister Maria Cyrilla of the Order of the Perpetual Watch dies, the convent
of St. Elias will be closed by the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Macedonia.
However, that isn't likely to happen soon as Sister Maria, 53, enjoys excellent
health.
By her own estimate, she walks 10 miles daily about the grounds of the convent,
which once served as a base for the army of Attila the Hun. In more ancient
times, a Greek temple to Eros, the god of love, occupied the hilltop site.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 19
Historians say that Attila took over the old temple in 439 A.D. and used it as a
base for his marauding army.
The Huns are believed to have first collected and then destroyed a large
gathering of Greek legal writs at the site.
It is believed that Attila wanted to study the Greek legal system, and had the
writs and other documents brought to the temple. Scholars differ on why he had
the valuable documents destroyed - either because he was barely literate and
couldn't read them, or because they provided evidence of democratic government
that did not square with his own notion of rule by an all-powerful tyrant.
When the Greek church took over the site in the 15th Century and the convent was
built, church leaders ordered the pagan statue of Eros destroyed, so another
ancient Greek treasure was lost. Today, there is only the lone sister, watching
over the old Hun base.
And that's how it ends: No Huns, no writs, no Eros, and nun left on base.
(03/25/93 Dunnett: Shaggy dogs.)
---------------------------------
I believe that items of this type are known as "shaggy dog stories", ie
a story which has a pun as it's punch line.
I recall that Isaac Asimov ( a great punster ) wrote a story of this type
about a floating city called Atlantis which crashed because too many women from
the space corps ( used to be the navy ) were present for a ceremony, the punch
line was "once again Atlantis sank beneath the WAVES.
The title of the story was named after the ruler of the city, whose name was
"Shah Guido G."
(03/28/93 Brown: Off topic on Shaggy Dogs)
-------------------------------------------
I think that a "Shaggy dog story" does not need a pun as a punch line.
Any joke with a huge amount of excess detail to make it longer would be a
"Shaggy Dog". The person hearing the joke laughs out of relief that it is over.
For example, there is the story of the guy who is told not to touch the
bear's nose. He does anyway. Immediately the bear stands up on its hind legs,
roars, and starts chasing the guy who doesn't recognize good advice when he
hears it. [Insert here several paragraphs / pages / minutes / hours of boring
detail, eg: up the stairs, down the stairs ...]. Finally, our hero is
cornered. The bear reaches out with his terrible claws
touches him and says "you're it!".
THAT's a shaggy dog story.
(03/29/93 Carter: See topic 103 for Shaggy Dog stories)
--------------------------------------------------------
February DECUServe Journal Page: 20
(04/07/93 Tillman: Already been done)
--------------------------------------
>willing to refer to himself as a metro-gnome.
See Alan Dean Foster's book "Metrognome".
(04/07/93 Tillman: I really liked this one)
--------------------------------------------
I saw a skit once, done by a bunch of friends of mine. One was playing
a school teacher and the other two were unruly students. During the course of
the class, the teacher asked the students, "What's the difference between
'ignorance' and 'apathy'?" The answer, of course, was:
"We don't know, and we don't care!"
(06/18/93 Norman)
-----------------
I don't know if I saw this some place or thought it up, but in either
case I won't claim it :-)
OSF/1 : Teaching a new dog Ultrix.
(08/03/93 Tackett: Doggone diet)
---------------------------------
Know why the Shetland sheepdog didn't like the canteloupe diet prescribed
by his vet??
Because eating it made him a little melancholy! [rim shot]
(If you don't get it, say so, and I'm sure someone will spell it out.)
(09/03/93 Wortman: Ink ace ewe note iced.... )
-----------------------------------------------
The Anita Hill police scrapped my latest NOTES Personal Name over on DCS,
so if you're potentially offended by references to parts of the body using
clinical terminology by way of creating a pun, please read no further.
In truth, I got this from "The Further Adventures of Nick Danger", from
the Firesign Theater's album "How can you be in Two Places at Once when
you're not Anywhere at all?" [I give up trying to capitalize this title].
Here's what it was:
"Bret, at your cervix".
Listen for Nick to say to Nancy, "Who's that little man with his hand in
your mouth", to which the little man replies, "Rocky Rococco, at your cervix."
It's barely noticeable, what with Rocky's bizarre "Mr. Cairo" accent, but
it's there.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 21
(09/04/93 DeLarisch: Firesign Theater ... Ahhh! Great Stuff!!!)
----------------------------------------------------------------
He Walks again by night ...
Out of the fog ...
Into the Smog ...
Rentlessly ...
Ruthlessly ... (I wonder where Ruth is?)
Doggedly ... (Arrf, Arrrf)
Toward his weekly meeting with ... The Unknown!
He makes a left at 4th and Drunker ...
He makes a right at Drunker and 4th ...
He walks into a sandstone building (ouch!) ...
Turns right ...
.
.
.
He's Ready for Action!
He's Ready for Adventure!
He's ... Nick Danger 3rd Eye (I'd like to order a pepperoni pizza to go ...
hold the anchovies)
No ... I spell my name DANGER! (what?)
-Arnold (Who grew-up on Firesign Theater)
P.S. By the way, there is a Double CD comming out the end of the month which
is a "best of" Firesign Theater. The 2 CDs are reported to have each 70+
minutes including expanded (never heard before) skits. Looks interesting!
(09/04/93 Snyder: Silly question)
----------------------------------
> Rentlessly ...
Does this mean he owns his own home?
(09/04/93 Luce: You're lucky you still have your brown paper bag)
------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Anita Hill police scrapped my latest NOTES Personal Name over on DCS.
(09/05/93 Morrison)
-------------------
Yep...they stopped right on the dime. Unfortunately, the dime was....
(09/05/93 Bowler: Oh, you mean Nancy!)
---------------------------------------
>He's ... Nick Danger 3rd Eye (I'd like to order a pepperoni pizza to go ...
> hold the anchovies)
>No ... I spell my name DANGER! (what?)
February DECUServe Journal Page: 22
Close but not quite
The last line should be "What? no anchovies? You've got the wrong man,
I spell my name DANGER."
Slightly later "I sat there reading the name on the door regnaD kciN"
(09/05/93 Gleason: multi-album joke)
-------------------------------------
It took me a few weeks of listening to these albums to get the connection
that the guy ordering pizza is on another album, and gets mildly bemused when
Danger answers the phone...
(09/05/93 Wortman: More ND)
----------------------------
"...if the world were flat, all the Chinese would fall off."
Actually, the intro does this (I listened again today, but forgot to
bring the tape home):
He walked into a sandstone building. (ouch!)
Opening the door, he stepped inside....
Also, listen close -- right after Nick hangs up the phone, the guy on
the other end (!) says "What?"
I think my fave part of the album, however, is on the flip side, where
the guy wuo just bought the new car is playing with his climate control and
discovers those guys running around in his car. The whole scene is great, but:
"I've got to find shelter, the sun is going down!"
"No, you're confused -- the horizon's moving up!"
And so on. ;-)
Hmmmmmmmmmm, new topic time? ;-)
Encrypting a disk at the physical level
---------------------------------------
The following article is an extract of the DECUServe Security
conference topic 257. The conversation occurred between
July 19, 1993 and October 13, 1993.
By Jean-Francois Mezei, Dan Wing, John Burnet, Rob Brown, Michael Baydoun,
Gus Altobello, Scott Dawley, Rick Carter, Don Boelling, Mike Durkin,
Glen Everhart
February DECUServe Journal Page: 23
(07/19/93 Mezei)
----------------
How realistic would the following scenario be:
Something triggers a "safagard my disks please" and the following happens:
-All non critical processes on the system are stopped.
-A program then proceeds to encrypt all target disks
at the physical level (eg: with PHYIO and encrypts every
physical block of the disk).
When the situation has cleared, the disks would then be decrypted in the
same manner.
1- How vulnerable would the encryption be considering that quite a few
blocks would be empty (and contain nulls) ?
2- Is this feasable anyway ?
The reason I ask is that I do not normally require encryption. However,
in the ~unlikely~ event of a break-in :-( , I would like to zap my disks before
anything could be done to them, but in such a way that I could recover them
later.
I realise that this is not foolproof, but it does provide a safegard that
"looks" good. Something similar to a self destruct mechanism on those science
fiction ships : destroy your data to prevent them from stealing it.
(07/19/93 Wing: Just erase the data?)
--------------------------------------
INIT/ERASE would give you that functionality. And I seriously doubt you'd
have a physical break-in that you would have enough time to hit the 'secure
the data' button. If they are that close to you, they could hit the RESET
buttons on your VAXes!
If they are coming in over the network, unplugging your Ethernet cable is
a good short-term solution to preventing your data from getting stolen.
(07/20/93 Mezei: Physical access means logical access to the data)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My application for disk encryption would be triggered by an alarm system
and would offer philosophical protection against an intrusion while in "lights
out mode" (eg: while I am out cycling or doing other stuff not related to
computing ).
The goal is to offer a certain level of apparent logical security in the
event of a physical security failure (eg: break-in).
Remember that gaining physical access to a VAX gives you access to all
of its data.
Even if not all the disk is encrypted by the time the criminals get to it,
it is bound to be damaged enough to make it difficult to access the info easily.
I assume that INDEXF.SYS normally sits at the beginning of the disk and would
be one fo the first files to be zapped by an physical block by physical block
encryption of the whole disk.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 24
I must also be concerned with Personal Computers. How do you really secure
the information in a PC to make it inaccessible when physical access to a
machine is gained ? From what I have read, opening the PC and removing its
battery is usually enough to remove all password protections that prevent
access to the PC.
(07/20/93 Burnet: Start protecting your data *before* it's too late, not after)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I assume that INDEXF.SYS normally sits at the beginning of the disk and would
>be one fo the first files to be zapped by an physical block by physical block
The default behavior is to put the index file in the middle of the disk.
You can override that with INIT/INDEX=BEGINNING.
It seems to me that trying to encrypt or erase a mounted ODS-2 volume while
the system is running is asking for trouble. What do you do about processes
with open files on that volume -- especially for the system disk (which can't
be dismounted)?
I think you would be better off using something like Glenn Everhart's
virtual-disk driver (it's on many DECUS tapes and CDs) to keep all of your
"secret" files encrypted at all times. Then, if someone breaks into your
building and takes control of your VAX, you can let him take whatever he can
get his hands on (virtually speaking) and you won't have to worry about it too
much. If all of your own stuff is encrypted (project files, clients' files,
or whatever), then an intruder would only be able to steal copies of VMS and
any other software that's installed.
(07/20/93 Burnet: Just to put this in perspective...)
------------------------------------------------------
I hope this doesn't sound too rude, but an analogy comes to mind:
Let's say that my wife and I have many tens of thousands of dollars worth
of jewelry, negotiable bonds, and cash in our house, and that we keep all this
stuff in easy-to-find places like unlocked desk drawers.
We're planning to go on vacation for a few weeks, and I would like to set
up a robot that's connected to the house's security system so that if someone
breaks in, the robot will immediately collect all of the valuables and lock
them up in a safe. How can I do this, or where can I find such a robot?
(07/20/93 Mezei: Maybe I should just look at INIT)
---------------------------------------------------
Vacations are one thing. But being away for an afternoon is another. I
resist using permanent encryption because of the raw horsepower that my all
mighty MicroVAX 2 just doesn't have. Of course, it would be the ideal situation,
but would require additional management.
But I would like some sort of method to make data useless if an alarm is
triggered.
I want "protection" that is more of less automatic. When you go on vacation,
you know you are at risk and you take precautions such as hiding jewelry etc.
But when you are away for an afternoon or a couple of days, you generally don't
want to hide everything. In the case of data where my vax is up 24 hours a day
February DECUServe Journal Page: 25
7 days a week even while away on vacation, I just want a little pillow of
comfort knowing that is something happens while I am away, I can tell my
clients that their data wasn't compromised. It isn't data that is worth
encrypting constantly, but I wouldn't want to see it stolen and risk that it be
used elsewhere.
I think that the INIT command may end up being the most useful in the end.
I just have to make sure I take proper backups.
(07/20/93 Brown)
----------------
Instead of trying to encrypt the whole thing, why not just damage the home
block so that the disk cannot be mounted. It occurs to me that the easiest
thing is to just change the pointer to the the index file bitmap.
Create your recovery program as a bootable system on your TK50.
(07/21/93 Baydoun)
------------------
Don't forget to lockup your backup tapes.
(07/21/93 Altobello: ...better be *good* backups...)
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't forget to keep your backup tapes *somewhere else*.
(07/23/1993 Dawley: Good looks, or real security?)
---------------------------------------------------
>I realise that this is not foolproof, but it does provide a safegard
>that "looks" good. Something similar to a self destruct mechanism on
Here's just the problem...it LOOKS good, but it won't really DO any good.
My reasons:
1) You are hoping that your blaster device will have enough
time after the physical breaking to encrypt everything.
Not something _I_ would like to assume if my data is that
critical.
2) If someone is really really after your client's data,
they'll do the breakin right to begin with, and your
blaster will probably never even get the chance to do it's
work. (Example: what happens if your system is deprived
of power before the physical breakin?)
3) You are attempting to do through technology what should best
be accomplished through good physical security. Put your
system with the 'secure' data on it behind several more
locked doors. Then MAYBE your blaster will have time
to encrypt your whole disk.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 26
4) Hire a security guard...or buy a nasty junkyard dog
and throw him some meat now and then for training.
Don't do things just because they LOOK good...make sure they will really
do what you hope they will do.
(07/26/93 Carter: Why not just spin down the disks?)
-----------------------------------------------------
(08/23/93 Boelling: Encryption not the answer for this problem.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
High speed data encryption on the fly is getting fast enough to allow for
full time encryption. I am presently doing it on several 386 and 486 systems
with almost undetectable overhead. However it only protects against someone
physically taking your disk. Users will all have authorized access to use the
disk and encrypt and decrypt. If an unauthorized user breaks in. It will most
likley be on a legitimate account and he/she will have the access needed. As
stated in previous notes, it would be less hassle and faster to simply
dismount the drives on an intrusion detection. Which is something you can
already do without spending any money or installing any sofware/hardware that
may require system overhead.
(10/15/93 Durkin: Possible approach)
-------------------------------------
Perhaps the following might be of some interest? The source is quite
reliable. Press KP-Comma to skip...
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 12:30:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <EVER...@arisia.gce.com>
Folks -
Some time ago I wanted to come up with a way to keep random folks out of files
they shouldn't have to do with, and tried to do a little cascade with CRCs
(seeing that this is easy on a VAX.)
The basic idea was to take a key phrase (variable length) and use a polynomial
pulled out of the air to compute
crc(key, poly) = MK
I then took some bits of the crc(key,poly) and formed a starting polynomial,
and took some other bits and formed an interval between polynomials, so that
I had a bunch of polynomials of form
WP= a * <bitfield1 of MK> shifted up a few bits + <bitfield2 of MK> + const
and proceeded to generate a nice LONG string from this, using a=1,2,3,4,...
and then for each A computing
February DECUServe Journal Page: 27
WK=CRC(key, WP)
so that I had a very long string of bits that I could then XOR the original
text with. (I added a couple fixed XORs that were other polynomial CRCs of the
key and multiples of block number, but I suspect these would by themselves be
pretty trivial to invert.)
I suspect that if instead of a CRC function I were to use some "authentication"
function, the result would be stronger; such a function would be of form
f(text, key) instead of crc(key, poly), so the thing formally ought to be
doable. However, in my experimenting I found that just using CRC produces a
result that doesn't compress at all well (in fact it's really terrible) with
any of the PD compression packages I've tried (zip, lharc, compress, sq,...),
and I don't see any simple way to invert it. (Also, CRC is simpler on a VAX
:-) ).
I only think about these things occasionally, though, and am wondering if
anyone in the group with more info can see that the scheme is vulnerable to
someone breaking in anyhow? Once you generate the bits, doing the XORs is
blindingly fast, so this makes a pretty good way to keep data private that
should be. (Generating the CRCs is of course pretty slow on some machines.)
I suspect the method won't keep real cryptographers out of the data for long,
but does anyone have a feel for whether there are backdoors this sort of thing
leaves, and perhaps how long the xor string might have to be before it starts
really getting useful or weak? The CRCs I used are of course only 32 bits long,
so there's got to be a limit somewhere. I just can't see it.
OTOH, if nobody else sees any gaping holes, I'd suppose that suggests
J. Random System Cracker wouldn't either...
Upgrading to VMS VAX V6.0
-------------------------
The following article is an extract of the DECUServe VMS
conference topic 2078. The discussion occurred between
May 17, 1993 and September 9, 1993.
By John Covert, Jack Stevens, Matt Holdrege, Linwoon Ferguson, Rob Brooks,
John McMahon, Chuck McMichael, Gary Mitchell, Larry Kilgallon, Bob McDougal,
Jean-Francois Mezei, Ta Fuh Chiam, Bob McFarland, Bill Wood, Joe Bates,
Jim Cristofero, Dan Wing, Pat Scopelliti, Wayne Steffen, Pete Sivia,
Bill Mayhew, Stuart Renes, Greg Nelson, Brian Tillman, Ray Whitmer, Dale Coy,
John Vottero, Curtis Reid
(05/17/93 Covert)
-----------------
This is your chance to influence an upcoming DECUS presentation so that
it contains or puts more emphasis on things that you're interested in.
On Tuesday in Atlanta, I'll be giving a presentation entitled:
February DECUServe Journal Page: 28
Upgrading to VMS VAX V6.0
I'm in the process of writing it right now, and have provided this topic
for you to make suggestions on what you want this presentation to be.
What do you want to learn about upgrading?
(05/17/93 Stevens: What to Watch Out For)
------------------------------------------
I would like to know the areas that are most changed: the ones that
have the highest propensity for being a "gotcha(!)" or that might not work
perfectly smoothly in this release.
(05/17/93 Holdrege: Need help with new features)
-------------------------------------------------
I would like some guidance in planning for the virtual IO cache and the
snapshot utility.
(05/17/93 Ferguson: What hardware and software will require it)
----------------------------------------------------------------
If possible, find out what DEC products' new releases are going to REQUIRE
the VMS 6.0 version.
Hardware and software.
Ideally I want to wait a year or so, but am always pushed into a VMS upgrade
because I buy either hardware or software that requires it. Getting some advance
notice on this would help a lot.
(05/17/93 Brooks: DNVEXT supported?)
-------------------------------------
I'd like to know whether the DECnet-VAX extensions will be supported under
V6.0.
(05/17/93 McMahon: Points)
---------------------------
Some comments on what functionality "goes away". For example, I believe at
least one device becomes unusuable under 6.0.
Anything on the UTC timezone stuff would be great!
What version of VMS can cluster with other versions of VMS.
(05/17/93 McMichael: Looking ahead)
------------------------------------
No offense intended, but if a tentative date for 6.0-1 is known, it should
be mentioned. Even if the statement is a delta time ("90 days after first
shipment"). That way, those of us who plan to schedule the upgrade N weeks
after it arrives won't get caught with another upgrade required at week N+1.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 29
(05/18/93 Mitchell: General Info)
----------------------------------
What about Layered Products ... which if any "MUST" be upgraded
Known effects on 3rd party software (i e Focus, Oracle, RS/1, etc)
Queue changes ...clusters vs single nodes
(05/19/93 Kilgallen: Security impact with mixed versions)
----------------------------------------------------------
What are the impacts of this new Clusterwide security stuff if one is
planning to stay with a mixed version cluster for a while (since the new
security stuff is not in V5.5).
I think I personally know how to plan for this, but I bet a lot of people
who go to a session on "upgrading to V6" might not even think about the problem.
(05/19/93 Kilgallen: Incompatible products)
--------------------------------------------
Which DEC layered products are _not_ V6 compatible?
I presume this would be mostly products which have device drivers, but
when you count drivers for pseudo-devices, that leaves a lot of ground to be
covered.
John, I realize that you are probably not able to speak for all of DEC
regarding when there would be a V6-compatible version of a layered product ready
(if not yet announced), but if there are pointers regarding which products are
not ready people can take a clue and go to other sessions to buttonhole folks
from those product areas with their questions.
(05/19/93 McDougall: site specific startup changes... )
--------------------------------------------------------
I'll guess that SYSTARTUP_V5.COM becomes SYSTARTUP_V6.COM, anything else
with the Queue Manager or LAT we should know about? any other site specific
files changing?
SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM
SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM
SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM
SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM -> SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V6.COM
SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM
SYS$MANAGER:ACCOUNTNG.DAT
SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT
SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT
SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA
SYS$SYSTEM:RIGHTSLIST.DAT
SYS$SYSTEM:LMF$LICENSE.LDB
SYS$SYSTEM:NETPROXY.DAT
What changes are needed in these files? (or will they still work...?)
February DECUServe Journal Page: 30
(05/20/93 Holdrege: I believe that it will be called SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I'll guess that SYSTARTUP_V5.COM becomes SYSTARTUP_V6.COM,
05/20/93 Mezei: What ? it won't be SYSTARTUP_OPENVMS.com ?????)
----------------------------------------------------------------
(05/20/93 Chiam)
----------------
Change it back to SYSTARTUP.COM. No problem with open or not open or
what version it is whatsoever!
(05/20/93 Kilgallen: Where is a moderator when you need one :-) )
------------------------------------------------------------------
Moderator,
Please hide that note, before someone from DEC reads it and
takes action :-)
or if that doesn't work...
Moderator-
Please hide that note. I find the language he used in the
title to be offensive :-)
(05/20/93 Holdrege: Should be processor specific)
--------------------------------------------------
I would think that they should call it SYSTARTUP_VAX.COM & SYSTARTUP_AXP.COM.
This way you could have separate startups in a mixed cluster. This might
be easier than having a bunch of tests in the startup to see if the CPU is VAX
or AXP.
(05/20/93 McFarland: Inquiring minds... )
------------------------------------------
<Now, how it ever got to be named SYSTARTUP_V5 in the first place is a bit of
>a story in itself and not clear to me to be appropriate for a notes conference. :-)
Joe,
But we all want to know.
Bob
February DECUServe Journal Page: 31
(05/20/93 Chiam: Don't hang us in mid-air!)
--------------------------------------------
Right! If it really is not appropriate for a notes conference, can we
do a PID or a non-disclosure? ;-)
(05/20/93 Wood: Nostalgia topic?)
----------------------------------
How about adding this to the nostalgia thread (Shop_Talk 87.*). We'd
love to hear it.
(05/21/93 Bates)
----------------
A correction to my earlier statement:
The original plan was to leave the SYSTARTUP_V5.COM name intact and
unchanged with V6.0 - then OpenVMS AXP came out and used the SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM
name so the V6.0 plan was changed so that Alpha and VAX OpenVMS systems would be
consistent in their naming of this file. As a result upgrading to V6.0 will
rename existing SYSTARTUP_V5.COM file to SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and a notification of
this renaming is displayed during the upgrade procedure. This is the _only_
system startup command procedure name that changes with 6.0.
A comprehensive list of DEC layered product versions required for version
6.0 is being compiled - will be attached to the V6.0 release notes and also will
be distributed in Atlanta in June.
(05/21/93 Mezei: If you are renaming, rename all versions please)
------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is still time:
Make sure that the V6.0 installation will rename
SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.com;* <----
The .* is very important since if you only rename the top version, and
earlier version will remain there and this will lead to confusion.
(05/26/93 Cristofero: Is VMSLAYERED.DAT Fixed?)
------------------------------------------------
Is the location of SYS$MANAGER:VMSLAYERED.DAT movable? In levels under
5.4 this file was opened and closed during startup, with 5.4 someone in
engineering decided to keep it open, then us sorry suckers who wanted to move it
for common startups via SYSMAN had to kludge SYLOGICALS.COM
(07/22/93 Wing: V6.0 won't work on some VAXes)
-----------------------------------------------
Something interesting from the vmsnet.sysmgt newsgroup. There are several
(6 or so, if I recall correctly) models that are in the 'not supported' list in
the release notes.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 32
(This looks like private Email to ma...@totaltec.com, which Mark posted to
vmsnet.sysmgt.)
-----
Newsgroups: vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: VMS V6.0 blunder ?
From: ma...@totaltec.com
Date: 22 Jul 93 09:41:38 EST
In article <1993Jul21.1...@colorado.edu>, dw...@uh01.colorado.edu (Dan Wing) writes:
> In article <1993Jul20....@totaltec.com>, ma...@totaltec.com writes:
>
>>In reading thru the bookreader files distributed with VMS 6.0, I stumbled
>>across a section in the Installation Guide about VMS 6.0 not supporting
>>a number of systems including, 4000 Model 100, 3100 Model 90, and a few
>>others. Is this a typo or what ?
>
> I downloaded RN and NF guides from DSNlink, and it shows that the
> 4000 model 100A (note the "A"), 3100-90A, and a few other VAXes (with "A"s
> on the end of the models) are not supported in VMS V6.0.
>
> ... anyone know the significance of the "A" at the end of the model number?
>
> -Dan Wing, Systems Administrator, University Hospital, Denver
> dw...@uh01.colorado.edu or win...@ucolmcc.bitnet
Here is E-Mail I got from Dec concerning VMS 6.0, read it and weep!
From brass.enet.dec.com!krieger Wed Jul 21 17:07:40 1993 remote from uunet
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 12:36:05 PDT
From: "Think positive, make a difference every day" <uunet!brass.enet.dec.com!krieger>
To: totaltec.com!mark
Apparently-To: ma...@totaltec.com
Subject: Re: VMS V6.0 blunder ?
It is true - VMS V6.0 does not support a number of systems including
4000 Model 100, 3100 Model 90. This is a "timing problem" between when
the hardware is ready and when a VMS release is ready.
The systems are supported by special hardware releases variants of 5.5-2 and
will be supported by VMS V6.1
Jim Krieger
VMS Engineering
(07/23/93 Holdrege: Something isn't right)
-------------------------------------------
This doesn't make sense. The VS4000-90 also used the special hardware
release variant called 5.5-2HW, yet VMS 6.0 works fine on my 4000-90.
The 7000 & 10000 had the same requirement.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 33
Each of these systems required the special release because the real VMS
5.5-2 was not yet ready for the public. Once the true 5.5-2 came out, DEC
recommended that we install it over the HW version.
(07/23/93 Scopelliti: Nudge, nudge..)
--------------------------------------
Bet we can clear this up by next week...
(07/23/9 Steffen)
-----------------
Please determine if this is true for the VAX ft810 as well. (It was
included in the list we saw from DSN). Also, we have a 3100/90, how do we know
if it is an "A" model?
(07/24/93 Bates: Clarification - Works on Shipping VAXes)
----------------------------------------------------------
No-one has A series systems at this time as Digital has never announced
such a product(s). If such a system were to be announced, I would guess that
they might be delivered with a special variant of the 5.5-2 release and that the
support for these systems might get re-integrated in a release after 6.0. The
same would probably hold true for any new FT system.
Just to be clear - the VAX 4000-100 and the MV 3100-90 is most certainly
SUPPORTED by 6.0. As clear proof of such, I attach the list of supported VAX
systems taken straight out of the 6.0 SPD:
SYSTEMS SUPPORTED BY OpenVMS VAX Version 6.0
This section of the SPD lists the VAX systems that are supported by
OpenVMS VAX Version 6.0. Refer to the VAX System and Options Catalog
and the Network and Communications Buyers Guide for details concern-
ing VAX hardware configurations and options.
Q-bus Based Systems
o MicroVAX II
o VAXstation II/GPX[1], VAXstation II/QVSS[2]
o MicroVAX 3200, VAXserver 3200, VAXstation 3200
o MicroVAX 3300, VAXserver 3300
o MicroVAX 3400, VAXserver 3400
o MicroVAX 3500, VAXserver 3500, VAXstation 3500, VAXstation 3520,
VAXstation 3540
o MicroVAX 3600, VAXserver 3600
February DECUServe Journal Page: 34
o MicroVAX 3800, VAXserver 3800
o MicroVAX 3900, VAXserver 3900
o VAX 4000, Models 100, 200, 300, 500, 600
o VAXserver 4000, Models 200, 300, 400, 500, 600
NMI Bus Based Systems
o VAX 8530, VAXserver 8530, VAX 8550, VAXserver 8550
o VAX 8700, VAXserver 8700
o VAX 8800, VAX 8810, VAX 8820, VAX 8830, VAX 8840
____________________
Graphics Processing Accelerator (GPX)
Q-bus Video Sub System (QVSS)
49
o VAXserver 8800, VAXserver 8810, VAXserver 8820, VAXserver 8830, VAXserver
8840
XMI Bus Based Systems
o VAX 6000 Series, Models 210, 220, 230, 240
o VAX 6000 Series, Models 310, 320, 330, 340, 360
o VAX 6000 Series, Models 410, 420, 430, 440, 450, 460
o VAX 6000 Series, Models 510, 520, 530, 540, 550, 560
o VAX 6000 Series, Models 610, 620, 630, 640
o VAXserver 6000, Models 210, 220, 310, 320, 410, 420, 510, 520
o VAX 8530, VAX 8550, VAXserver 8530, VAXserver 8550
o VAX 8700, VAXserver 8700
o VAX 8800, VAX 8810, VAX 8820, VAX 8830, VAX 8840
o VAXserver 8800, VAXserver 8810, VAXserver 8820, VAXserver 8830, VAXserver
8840
o VAX 7000, Models 610, 620, 630, 640, 650, 660
February DECUServe Journal Page: 35
o VAX 10000, Models 610, 620, 630, 640, 650, 660
VAXBI Bus Based Systems
o VAX 8200, VAX 8250, VAXserver 8200, VAXserver 8250
o VAX 8300, VAX 8350, VAXserver 8300, VAXserver 8350
SBI Bus Based Systems
o VAX 11/780, VAX 11/785
o VAX 8600, VAX 8650, VAXserver 8600, VAXserver 8650
CMI Bus Based Systems
o VAX 11/750
Special System Specific Internal Bus
50
o VAX 11/730
o MicroVAX 2000, VAXstation 2000, VAXstation 2000/GPX, VAXstation 2000
/MFB[3]
o VAXft 3000, Models 110, 310, 410, 610, 612
o MicroVAX 3100, Models 10, 10E, 20, 20E, 30, 40, 80, 90
o VAXserver 3100, Models 10, 10E, 20, 20E
o VAXstation 3100, Models 30, 38, 40, 48, 76
o VAXstation 3100/GPX, Models 38, 48, 76
o VAXstation 3100/SPX[4], Models 38, 48, 76
o VAXstation 4000, Models 60, 90
o VAXstation 4000-VLC
o VAX 9000, Models 110, 110VP[5], 210, 210VP, 310, 310VP
o VAX 9000, Models 320, 320VP, 330, 330VP, 340, 340VP
o VAX 9000, Models 410, 410VP, 420, 420VP, 430, 430VP
o VAX 9000, Models 440, 440VP
February DECUServe Journal Page: 36
(07/24/93 Holdrege: Tell us more)
----------------------------------
>No-one has A series systems at this time as Digital has never announced
>such a product(s).
Now, I'm intrigued! Can you give us a hint at what an A system would
be? Alpha on our existing 4000-100's perhaps?
(07/24/93 Sivia: A doesn't always mean AXP)
--------------------------------------------
Nope. It's not. Ask for a non-disclosure PID or stick around a bit...
(08/04/93 Mayhew: Announced, Unannounced, Program Announced - Semi-Announced?)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> No-one has A series systems at this time as Digital has never announced
> such a product(s).
A-series systems (or, at least, upgrades thereto) are on the Electronic
Connection's price list. For example, DV-41MV1-A9/B9 are 4000-100A Easy VAX
Upgrades.
That's "announced" enough for me. C'mon, out with it :-)
(08/05/93 Kilgallen: DECUS leader clams up in sweetheart deal with DEC)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So tell us what _you_ know, Bill :-)
What is the percentage price difference for the "A"?
Then when we find out what "A" means we will know if it is worth it :-)
(08/05/93 Mayhew)
-----------------
Sweetheart deal??? Hardly.
I gave you the part numbers, you can figure out the price differences
for yourselves... I'm not goin' back into them thar Electronic Connection waters
any more often than I hafta :-)
(One of these days we'll be able to $ TELNET ESTORE from EISNER, making
questions like this worth investigating even for those of us with only
peripheral interest ;-) )
(08/09/93 Renes: VMS 6.0 Upgrade/Installation Guide?)
------------------------------------------------------
Did anyone else who subscribes to the Condist _not_ get a hardcopy
release of the VMS 6.0 Upgrade/Installation guide?
I got multiple sets of the VMS 6.0 Docs (as ordered), but no Upgrade
guide. I hade to use the .TXT copy (no .PS on the Condist). Printing that
monster was no fun.
Seems like I have gotten hardcopy installation guides for layered VMS
products for which I have binaries on Condist.
February DECUServe Journal Page: 37
(08/09/93 Tillman: I did not)
------------------------------
(08/09/93 Nelson: Me either)
-----------------------------
I didn't get one either. I assumed this is because their is a text version
on the VMS CDROM. There doesn't seem to be a Postscript version on the diskette.
(08/10/93 Scopelliti: -A systems in E-store)
---------------------------------------------
The -A means the CPU boards can take DSSI daughter boards. The 4100A
can take up to 2 DSSI buses, the 4500A, 4600A, 4700A all come with two DSSI
buses and can take another two for a total of four buses - each rated at 1200
I/O /sec.
Other items:
- The 4500A->4700A seem to only be rackmountable.
- These all use new CPU boards
- 4700A is 40 VUPs
- New pricing: Old system New system
4400 4500A
4500 4600A
4600 4700A
Looks like the 4400 is retired
E-store article wasn't clear on exactly what the upgrade path is, but
does say there is an upgrade path.
Couldn't find pricing...
(08/10/93 Holdrege: Finally)
-----------------------------
> The -A means the CPU boards can take DSSI daughter boards. The 4100A
Aha! I actually had the PID on this a few months ago. I also heard
about it back at the Las Vegas DECUS last year. I just never knew that it would
be called an "a" system.
I plan to upgrade our 4100's by adding the second DSSI bus. I can wait
for VMS 6.0 on those boxes.
(08/10/93 Bates: I just work here :-) )
----------------------------------------
Orderable now, but still not officially announced.
(09/04/93 Mezei: is PHONE still there ?)
-----------------------------------------
A while back, it was announced that PHONE would eventually go away.
Is PHONE still part of VMS ? Is it on VAX 6.0 and AXP 1.5 ?
February DECUServe Journal Page: 38
(09/04/93 Whitmer: It is still on AXP.)
----------------------------------------
PHONE.EXE is on AXP 1.5 SYS$SYSTEM. Someone took my VMS 6.0 machine
down so I will have to go back to work to bring it up before I can check there.
Someone should make a PD version. There are lots of enhancements that could be
made. DEC ought to at least submit it to DECUS if they discontinue it.
(09/04/93 Vottero: Still in V6.0)
----------------------------------
PHONE is still in VMS V6.0. I believe the problem will appear when
DECnet/OSI (or whatever it's called) shows up. Even then, PHONE may contine to
work on a single machine.
I second the motion that Digital should submit the source to DECUS.
(09/04/93 Coy: How about)
--------------------------
From the (read-only) INFO-VAX conference...
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1993 07:29:40 +0000
From: lio...@quark.enet.dec.com (Steve Lionel)
Subject: Re: RE: vms--phone?
To the best of my knowledge (and this subject has been of great concern
inside Digital), PHONE continues to be supported. At issue was the
availability of resources to upgrade PHONE so that it would work in
a DECnet Phase V network. My understanding is that such resources have
been found (indeed, volunteered) and PHONE will live on, though otherwise
unchanged.
Steve Lionel lio...@quark.enet.dec.com
SDT Languages Group
Digital Equipment Corporation
110 Spit Brook Road
Nashua, NH 03062 "Free advice is worth every cent"
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:30:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: lio...@quark.enet.dec.com (Steve Lionel)
Subject: Re: RE: vms--phone?
I asked OpenVMS product manager Brian Breton to state the "official" position
regarding support for the PHONE utility. He said:
PHONE will work correctly in a Phase V environment, under
OpenVMS VAX V6.1 as long as synonyms are used. Fullname addresses won't
work with PHONE.
(Synonyms are a means of having "traditional" short node names which are
synonyms for "fullnames"; this allows most applications to work in a
"fullnames" environment without being recoded. PHONE used the
February DECUServe Journal Page: 39
non-transparent DECnet QIO interface and needed to be recoded to operate at
all under Phase V, if I understand things correctly.)
I also suggested to Brian that a statement be included in the V6.1 Release
Notes rescinding the intent, as described in the V5.4 Cover Letter, to
drop support for PHONE and send it to DECUS.
Brian also mentioned to me that support for PHONE was reinstated largely due
to the requests of the hearing-impaired user community; Gallaudet
College in particular.
--
Steve Lionel lio...@quark.enet.dec.com
SDT Languages Group
Digital Equipment Corporation
110 Spit Brook Road
Nashua, NH 03062 "Free advice is worth every cent"
(09/09/93 Reid: Hooray!)
-------------------------
>Brian also mentioned to me that support for PHONE was reinstated largely due
>to the requests of the hearing-impaired user community; Gallaudet
>College in particular.
This is news to me but I'm very pleased to hear this!!!!! Chalk me up
another supporter for PHONE!
February DECUServe Journal Page: 40
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