Flo Grimm Rejoint Le Blog !
Tanja Freeze
Sorry to butt in on this thread but I have a violin in my collection that I like a lot and it has a paper claiming it has a lippold connection. I've looked at the few images that are floating around on the internet but am still on the fence about this one. I am under the impression that its probably late 19th century factory work. It has a Gagliano label inside that could have been added later or possibly from the factory.It has alot of touch ups and over varnish that are confusing to my far from knowledgeable eyes.I think sometimes it could be 1840, but then again maybe 1940.
Another great thread. I think Don Noon is right in that a power jointer can do a good job but can never reach the level of a sharp plane iron. I have a 12 inch wide jointer in my shop which I will use for jointing edges for door panels and the like for cabinetmaking purposes but I would never use it for the finished center joint on a musical instrument. I have experimented with it so I know how close it can come to an acceptable joint,but only close.
With the wide jointer I will flatten the backs of my plate halves and then joint the center edges. I then will rejoint the edges by one or two whisker passes over a large wooden jointer plane held in a bench vise.After having squared them on the power machine I just pass them over without a fence.I will look for light through the joint to make sure but there is the unmistakable feeling of suction when you mate the two perfect surfaces together, once you feel this rubbing the joint to make a perfect glue joint make a lot of sense.
I must add that after having experimented with my old stanley bedrock #8 jointer plane, an old fashioned big wooden jointer plane with a heavy iron and cap iron is the way to go.absolutely no chatter.
If it was me I would take a couple of hours to sort through it and tie it into individual hanks. Throw away anything thats too short too thin etc. and coil each hank into a zip lock sandwich bag. It would be fun and you could have 25 or 30 good hanks in a drawer. I know coiled hair is a little unruly to work with but it could be a good option.
I have not tried it but I know wood turners who will glue up a square post out of 4 square pieces of wood adding a sheet of paper to the glue joint. Then they would turn the post round and split it into perfect quarter rounds. The glue joints would be strong but would open up nicely without any wood damage. I have wondered if this would be practical for a violin top which you are planning to remove sooner than later.Keep in mind my example of the turner was using yellow glue but I would think hide glue would work just the same. I think it could be worth an experiment.
I'm working when I can on my #1 so I am not by any means experienced, but I am learning and planning on starting a second soon to try other things. My current fiddle in progress has spruce blocks with bass wood linings. This seemed to make sense to me. I have a lot of bass wood and clear spruce in the shop. I will look forward to trying willow blocks and linings at some point.Nice work Melvin,as usual.
Thanks for the recent photos of the Vuillaume violin. Its been great to see some useful pictures of one. I have been wondering about Vuillaumes consruction methods in the corners. I was under the impression he used an outside form and would be curious if this is somewhat correct or not at all. If he was using outside forms some of the time was he building corner blocks into the instruments? I'm sure there must be a big expensive book out there that could answer all my questions but I don't have it at the moment.Any insights and information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I'm pretty sure it's taboo to talk about guitars on Maestronet but there is the very occasional overlap. I was only advocating mortising violin linings into the corner blocks. Guitars don't have this need. Interesting about kerfed linings. I will use bass wood in classical guitars and the are treated much like violin linings. Steel string guitars are likely to have kerfed mahogany linings and I wonder if we are just following a practice which began in a factory to allow linings to be installed without heat bending and carving. I would have trouble installing carved basswood linings in a steel string guitar because the general consumer would think I was a crackpot, but it could be a good thing. I think Linings are worth experimenting with and considering as a part of tone production, not just in violins but any instrument that uses them. I know I would be interested in any thoughts and ideas on the subject.
I must say linings can be one of those things often overlooked and under appreciated so I am thrilled to see two linings threads in one day. I have spent more time in past years thinking about guitar linings and how they are often over built even in good hand made instruments. I think maybe violin makers can have the same tendency. I consider their function to be only for glue surface and should be as slim and light and flexible as possible. If you have corner blocks then continuous linings would be superfluous. Also I would think their shape should be such that if you were air or sound waves you would enjoy running over them. Not too big, not too prefect and with a nice flow.
I would also think that mortising the linings into the corner blocks would help to lock the ribs onto the corner blocks, not just for removal from the form but for the long healthy life of the instrument.
They sell what they call shredded parchment in 4 oz 8 oz and 16 oz bags. A 4 oz bag is a lot of parchment and they are more like cut offs and not like what comes out of a shredder machine. Its a bit heavy for my tastes but can be thinned and I have seen some serious bridges with nice thick parchments so its a little matter of taste. Also it has other possible repair uses so its good to have around.
If you go to addall.com and enter the title of the book you are looking for in their search form you should find 2 copies available. This site gathers info from book sellers all over the internet and can be a valuable resource. Good Luck.
I would guess this fiddle was made in the United States about 80 years ago. It looks like the work of a novice luthier from some east coast small city or large town. The finger board is a bit of an anomaly, it may have been ordered from a parts supplier and was actually machine made in Germany. If only they had Strad posters back then. This is only speculation on my part, I am not an expert and am often completely wrong about many things. Enjoy the fiddle and I hope you receive some more expert help.
I recall that the tried and true finish I have used in the past was just pure linseed oil ( they may have different formulas} , maybe you have some already. I could recommend a home made oil varnish mix which is 3 parts terp, 2 parts oil and one part varnish. It would probably clean protect and beautify all in one application.Just dip in a lint free cloth and rub away, its fast and easy but kinda smelly.
If you want to cut down on fumes in the house you could just apply a coat of Butchers wax maybe. The important thing is to hook those things up and put on some old records, Led Zeppelin would work or maybe some Isaac Stern.
dfxr, Thanks for the insights and encouragements. I could tell from reading old threads that one needs thick skin to participate here no matter what your level of experience. I will continue to read and post and try hard not to be haughty in the future.
iburkard, my sincere apologies. I am a humble and open minded person and a very humble and open minded luthier and cabinetmaker. I learn new things everyday and am always willing to discuss new and different techniques, tools ,designs. I obviously have a lot to learn about MN and how it can be used and enjoyed. For now I hope this particular thread will sink to the bottom and never bother anyone again.
I was adding these pictures just to show the linings I described which I was curious about. I thought they might look familiar to someone and I also did not feel that I could describe them properly. I will start another thread if I need more advice on restoration techniques concerning this or other instruments.
I am here to learn all I can about building violins and hope I can contribute more in the future. I feel like your advice to me to" start a blog " is well out of the spirit of this forum. I was encouraged to join by a prominent contributor to this forum and am further encouraged by the recent " lurkers" thread which seemed to further extend welcome to all levels of contribution, so that its not just professionals talking to professionals. I very much hope your not speaking for everyone when you say this.
I think the smaller flat cleats you are talking about are the original centerjoint cleats or studs. These seem to be quite effective and of perfect dimension, fit and finish. If you are working on old violins you should leave these in place and not replace them with larger ones. I think they should only be 1.5 mm thick. I am curious what the special tools are you refer to regarding the removal of cleats. Have you tried a sharp chisel And remember what they say its not the size of the cleat its what you do with it.
Sorry to revive this old post but I had to unstring my violin a couple of weeks ago because the back seams. particularly the seam in the treble C was way open. The violin sounded quieter and quieter and I need to do some repairs at last.
I decided to try taking some interior photos and thought if I just put the lens of my canon digital elph up against the end pin hole I might be able to get an image. I needed to get out the string of LED Christmas lights from the closet because they fit into the f holes and do not generate any heat so I can light it up.These are the results.
I do like this violin a lot and I still find the linings very interesting. You can see them in the photos I hope and also interesting to see the repairmans cleats as well as the center joint cleats from the maker. nice bass bar. You can also see the ink signature on the upper back which I still cannot read.
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