Starting up the fedora special interest group

[Rob Whyte]

Hi all,

forwarding this to the correct list, not support.

Thanks

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	VINUX-SUPPORT: starting up the fedora special interest group
Date:	Mon, 1 May 2017 06:42:36 -0500
From:	kendell clark <coffee...@gmail.com>
Reply-To:	vinux-...@googlegroups.com
To:	vinux-...@googlegroups.com

hi all
Luke wanted me to send out an email to the support list to  get feedback 
on this. As we all know vinux is moving to using fedora as it's base 
after the images for ubuntu 16.04 have been released. As part of this, 
we're going to be starting up the accessibility special interest group 
in fedora. To shorten a very long explanation, special interest groups 
are basically little sections of the fedora community who care about a 
particular thing, and maintain packages, have discussions, etc about 
that thing. There's a firmware sig which makes sure that devices that 
need firmware can find it included in fedora by default, there's a 
networking sig which takes care that networking standards like wi fi, 4g 
lte, and so on are supported in fedora and so on. We're going to try to 
work with fedora as much as possible to minimize the amount of work we 
have to do, and the amount of packages we have to carry in our 
repository. Thus the accessibility group. But the fedora people don't 
know about this yet. I offered to break the news to them, but luke 
wanted me to email in first to see what all of you guys think. We're a 
community, not a dictatorship, and I'm not the leader anyway, so what do 
you guys think. Should I announce it to the fedora people, working with 
them to set up accounts, get accessibility packages updated and so on 
along with luke and anyone else who's interested or should I wait until 
luke and rob have had a chance to get around to it? I'll follow our 
decision, the last thing I want to do is screw something up by being 
over enthusiastic. I can do that sometimes, try to help by announcing 
stuff early and messing things up instead.
Thoughts?
Thanks
Kendell Clark

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[Fernando Botelho]

I vote yes. it is a great idea.


Fernando

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[Janina Sajka]

Hi,

So, I'm myself unsure if I'm responding in the right place. Let me just
say I think it's fine, and probably even smart to advise Red Hat and the
Fedora community of Vinux intention.

Fortunately, Fedora expressly supports building particular purpose spins
of Fedora. There's an entire page about that:

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

It'll be good for Fedora to be regularly hearing from folks working on
making Fedora accessible with a minimum set of mods. It's been some time
since they've been challeneged much on accessibility, imo.

Janina

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Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org

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Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

[Christopher Chaltain]

I'm not sure what I'm answering. I'm all for an accessibility special
interest group in Fedora. I'm not sure I care whether Luke, Rob or
Kendell reach out to Fedora though. I'd suggest the three of you work
that out amongst yourselves.

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[Rick Leir]

Hi All
Agreed, Fedora does not put most of its effort into accessibility. It is leading edge in enterprise servers, and you will find yourself stumbling over new development often. I like Fedora and my server runs it but it might not be the right choice for Vinux.

Fedora does not have the LTS releases that you see in Ubuntu so you will feel a need to upgrade more often.

Ubuntu has the slickest UI in Linux, for people with good vision. But for vision challenged people, the slick features are a negative. That said, their accessibility support is excellent, as I found as I was helping my almost blind father. It was almost as good as Windows (sorry for that).

Ubuntu also has great support for spins, though they call it something else. Kubuntu for education etcc.
Cheers -- Rick

Sorry for being brief. Alternate email is rickleir at yahoo dot com

[Kyle]

According to Rick Leir:
# It was almost as good as Windows (sorry for that).

Sorry. I, and I would guess others here as well, don't use any
Linux-based operating system because it's *almost* as good. If that was
the case, I'm sure many of us simply wouldn't use it at all. Over the
years, various forms of Linux-based operating systems, and now Android
as well, have been the only systems I have used on which I could work in
a completely screenless environment. Years ago when I ran something
else, I somehow never felt comfortable turning the screen completely
off. Things in that other world may be *better* now, but to say I'm
working with something *almost as good* as I recall from the other world
is quite far from my own personal experience, where the screen reader
used to lock up and bluescreen the computer sometimes twice a day or
more, and the rather large company behind the screen reader I used at
the time said that it was "too hard" to fix the problem, even though
they indicated they knew that the problem existed and where. I'm far
more comfortable turning off the screen now, and the occasional restart
of the screen reader is far better than the need to turn on the screen
to find that it's blue with some white text on it that I can't read, and
that may or may not give me a chance to recover from enough to save my
work before rebooting, and far better still than Microsoft's solution to
the blue screen problem, which last I knew was to suddenly reboot the
computer, seemingly at random. This may or may not have been an issue
with the screen reader, or could have been caused by anything else
running on the system, but I was glad to be able to work in a far more
stable environment, even 15 years ago, when the shell was all we had.
~Kyle

[Rick Leir]

Kyle,
Again I say sorry, personally I much prefer Linux. And sorry, I should not say a word in this group because my sight is fine so far.

By screenless, do you mean bash in a terminal?

Yes, Windows has its problems. But it is much better than it was, especially 7. I use whatever OS is best for the work at hand, whether Linux, MacOSX, OpenBSD, or .. whatever. For my personal work, that is usually Ubuntu and Fedora, but for my almost blind father it was clearly Windows 7. Sorry to offend. And I am keen to hear what works best for you -- Rick

[Kyle]

According to Rick Leir:
# By screenless, do you mean bash in a terminal?

No. I mean screenless, meaning I have no monitor of any kind connected
to the computer I use. I have set it up with speech only. I'm running
the MATE desktop, and I'm using Thunderbird to send this message.
Granted this doesn't work on all machines, as more of them seem to
require something connected to either a DVI or HDMI port now, but this
one works well for me set up in this way.

Of course if someone thinks that Linux is Bash in a terminal and little
else, or if they think that is the only accessible means of getting
things done on a Linux-based system, they would probably feel that
Windows, or anything else with a working graphical environment, is
better. But Linux is so much more than this, and in fact, if desired, it
is even possible to skip the terminal altogether and use only a mostly
familiar graphical desktop, although in this case, I would tend to
recommend using OpenSUSE, since its YAST graphical administration tools
work quite well, perhaps better than just about any other administration
tools outside of the terminal, and most if not all these tools work with
the Orca screen reader quite well.
~Kyle