Ideas for events in the Pacific Northwest?

[Michael Brutman]

The short story: I (and others) want to get another live vintage computing event going in the Pacific Northwest.  This group/mailing list is a place to discuss ideas.

The longer story:

"Vintage Computer Festival" started in the San Francisco Bay area, ran for about 10 years, and then fizzled out.  Other VCF events continued on.  Eventually VCFed.org (a new group formally registered as a charity) resurrected VCF West a few years ago.  VCFed.org runs VCF West and VCF East.  Friendly independent groups run other VCF events independently.

I knew a lot of people in that group and I worked at the resurrected VCF West event as a volunteer.  Then I joined the board of the charity and launched VCF PNW in 2018 here in Seattle, with Living Computers:Museum+Labs giving us a great venue.  We did it again in 2019, and then in 2020 COVID-19 struck and forced VCF PNW 2020 to be cancelled.  It also led LC:M+L to shutter their doors, and we don't know if/when they are going to reopen.

2021 is more than half over now.  At some point it would be nice to have another live event, but we probably won’t have the same venue and I am a little older and wiser.  Based on that, here is a rough idea of what I think might work better for a 2022 event:

• No VCFed.org involvement.  They are friends, but I think that it makes more sense to keep funding and control local.
• Make this more of a conference type event, along the lines of VCF Midwest.  The conference style allows people to keep working/playing after formal visiting hours are over.  (I envision getting a block of rooms and a hotel ballroom at a place not too far from the city, but far enough to bring the costs down.  When the main event floor closes people are free to hangout around the rest of the hotel, have hacking parties in their rooms, etc.
• Funding: Private or voluntary funding.  I don’t mind throwing in a good chunk of seed money to get it off the ground.  “Profits” would be rolled over into the next year’s event.  If we really wanted to get formal about things or if the money got to be large enough we’d do the 501c3 thing to ensure some accountability.

Compared to VCF PNW 2018 and 2019 these are some pretty large changes.  Possible negatives include:

• We don’t have the same great venue and logistical support that we used to have at LC:M+L.  Maybe they would reopen and rent us space - that needs to be explored, but the closure definitely put a damper on things.  Renting a real space will cost real money and involve some risk.
• The conference style setup will appeal less to the general public.  I don’t think that’s a big problem.
• We won’t have the logistical support from VCFed.org.  This is not a big factor.

On the plus side:

• The conference style setup will let us make more of the weekend - we won’t get kicked out of a building at 5pm.  And it might encourage more people to travel for the event.
• We can locate the event close enough to Seattle (or any other large city in the Pacific Northwest) without being directly in the city.  Parking doesn’t have to be an issue anymore, and hotel rates in the outskirts are much lower.
• If we do clear some money we will have seed money for next year.  VCFed provided the seed money for VCF PNW 2018 and 2019 but the profits from consignment went back to VCFed.org.  Which wasn’t a totally bad thing, but their museum in New Jersey is their highest priority.

Longer term:

I’d like to build enough of a group of people such that we can start to think about doing something like renting a small space and using it as a combined vintage computing/maker space.  I’m thinking of how the Seattle Retrocomputing Society uses the Black Lodge Research maker space, but I don’t want to just borrow space anymore.  By the time we get to that point we’d definitely be a 501c3 and be looking for donations or funding.

This is a high level vision.  I’m happy to provide lower level details and to debate back and forth.

Thoughts?
Mike

[Kent Sullivan]

Mike, great thoughts! I guess one thing to be explicit about (you were close to explicit but maybe not 100%) -- who is the event to be for, going forward? Primary audience / secondary audience? For the two events we've had so far, I'd argue it was general public first, enthusiasts second. I think this proposal flips it, with which I am comfortable.

I attended a CBM-only event several years ago. It was held in a casino hotel in Vegas (off-Strip), which apparently kept costs down. I have no idea if there is a similar possibility here, but there are relatively-nearby casinos, on tribal land.

Thanks.

[John Kennedy]

I like the idea - it would be great to hear talks, see demos and old systems, and of course have a buy-and-sell table.

I wonder if the local tech giants would be interested in sponsoring? Anyone got any suggestions for how to approach them?

-John

[Michael Brutman]

Hi Kent,

Yes, you inferred it correctly.  The primary audience would be us - the people who are interested in these things.  The secondary audience would be the general public, but I think there will be a lot less emphasis on that audience.  I don't have to prove to the museum that we are worth the effort anymore, which is a big factor in the first show.  We broken their attendance record the first year, and then broke our own record the second year.  But it was a lot of work to cater to a more general audience.  Steve Stroh mentioned that difference in his email too.

-Mike

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Vintage Computing PNW" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintage-computin...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/vintage-computing-pnw/31204c62-ea31-4d00-aefe-b841c431563bn%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Michael Brutman]

As much as I like the idea of getting one of the large well funded tech companies to fund us, it's difficult to get their attention even if you are a somewhat established 501(c)3 like VCFed.org.  I think that initially we are on our own for funding until we get some critical mass and can show people what they would be buying into.

Running the VCF PNW events in 2018 or 2019 did not cost a lot of money because we worked hard to keep the expenses low and LC:M+L providing the venue, tables, networking and extra staff was a huge deal.  The key here is to find a venue big enough, but also slightly out of the way.  Ideally somebody who wants to just rent the room rather than have it sit empty, and is willing to give us a chance to grow the event.  (If it grows it works for them too; assuming it is a hotel that is extra bookings.)  VCF Midwest seems to have the formula down reasonably well, for both selecting a venue and managing to fund it (privately).

For the longer term wish of a local clubhouse/retrocomputing maker space in the region ...  that's going to require people to put up some money and make a commitment.  I have no idea what cheap commercial space costs, but I know the expense can be spread over a number of people.  I'm sure that Black Lodge Research and other maker spaces would be willing to give us advice.

Mike

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Vintage Computing PNW" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintage-computin...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/vintage-computing-pnw/2b829e4b-5f17-4dd0-875a-330d62ab8533n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mike Begley]

I'm interested, with a great big but:

Another community I'm in just held an event two weekends ago.  They required all staff to be vaccinated.  They required showing vaccination cards to be shown at entry by all attendees, checked against ids, and color coded wristbands indicating degree of physical contact people were comfortable with.  They did a few other things.  Essentially, they did everything right.  Approximately 400 people showed up.

As of late last weekend at least 13 cases of covid have been directly linked back to this event, with likely more to come.  None serious so far, but any of those people (all of whom who were vaccinated) could have transmitted that to someone who is not vaccinated, for whatever reason.

Essentially, breakthrough cases are happening, and we're just not through this thing.

So before we go any further in discussion on this, we really need to honestly address the elephant in the room - how to deal with the ongoing transmission of this disease, within the context of this event.

Until I got news of all these breakthrough cases from this one event, I was thinking we were emerging from the other side of this thing and we would be able to safely meet in events like this.  But now I'm increasingly uncertain.

Sorry to be the fun hater.

-mike

[John Kennedy]

Absolutely agree. it's WAY to early for an in-person event. I am not confident the VCF event in California next month is going to end well (I am hoping they cancel it).

Maybe start with a Virtual Event to get the name out there, and interested parties sign-up? I "organized" a YouTube based event called #Retrofair2020 and even with my lack of organization and media skills, it was fun.

[Michael Brutman]

Agreed - I will not participate in any live event that puts people (myself included) at risk.

But what I'm really trying to figure out here is, what would that next event look like?  Did people like the format we had at VCF PNW 2018 and 2019 (which is basically the same as VCF West)?  Do we want to make it look more like a conference, similar to VCF MW?  Are there better models to look at and borrow from?

Is there any long term interest in forming a more formal organization (a non-profit) with a maker space or something similar attached to it?

I'd like people to feel free and start ranting, brainstorming, or whatever.  Nobody will be asked for a donation yet. ;-0

-Mike

[Mike Begley]

Unfortunately, I’m convinced after the events of the last weekend that we’re nowhere near being able to safely put on a large, indoor event open to the general public.  Unless we’re looking at a virtual event,  I think we need to choose from those three adjectives, Large, Indoor, General Public, and choose one, at most.  Thinking about the alternatives to each:

1) Small – do something with limited reach.  Maybe tops 100 to 200 people, and even in that case spread over the course of a couple days.  At this point I’d be wary of any event with more than 20-30 people in an appropriately-sized space.

 

2) Outdoor – Obviously this comes with a lot of practical concerns: weather, power, space, other concerns.

 

3) Closed – limiting attendees to a fixed population, like people within the community and not a lot of outside marketing/outreach.  Obviously this would require vaxx card verification at the minimum, and probably pre-purchase of tickets.  Likely this would keep the event/sessions/displays fairly technical, as they wouldn’t have to reach gen-pop.

 

-mike

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Vintage Computing PNW" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vintage-computin...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/vintage-computing-pnw/CAPAHKi1KdLpbo7A48NTMNKs4NBVTCmNwp-2F6OJm_Ct1LphQug%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sergey Kiselev]

Putting Covid-19 issue aside, and talking about longer term plans (when hopefully it won't be an issue any longer).

- I did enjoy VCF PNW events at LC:M+L as a presenter, although I do agree, that it was very crowded. Sometimes it was difficult to have a conversation with all the noise

- I like the idea of renting a convention space at an hotel, assuming that the costs are reasonable. Perhaps these places can provide some of the required furniture (tables/chairs?).

- Conference-like format should work nicely, and will indeed allow socializing without being kicked out at certain hour

- I do agree with setting up the priorities: first priority - enthusiasts, second - general audience

- Speaking about company sponsorship for a venue (later on, once Covid-19 is no long a concern), I can enquire at Intel. There was a museum in their JFCC building (Hillsboro, OR), which then was converted to a maker space, only to be soon closed. As far as I know it now looks like a large classroom with many round tables (with power outlets at each table), and a big projector screen. With that being said, I am not very positive that they will be open to a private event, even though related to the company.

--Sergey

[geneb]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021, Michael Brutman wrote:

> But what I'm really trying to figure out here is, what would that next
> event look like? Did people like the format we had at VCF PNW 2018 and
> 2019 (which is basically the same as VCF West)? Do we want to make it look
> more like a conference, similar to VCF MW? Are there better models to look
> at and borrow from?
>

I wouldn't mind seeing what a conference setup would look like.
Especially something that offered workshops on relevant subjects.

> Is there any long term interest in forming a more formal organization (a
> non-profit) with a maker space or something similar attached to it?
>

It's my understanding that maker spaces are easy to start, but notoriously
difficult to keep going. That being said, it might be worth it in the
long run if it could be made self-sustaining.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

[Steve Stroh]

This is an interesting innovation that's now in Seattle:

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/co-warehousing-startup-saltbox-opens-facility-seattle-third-nationwide/

Saltbox leases "mini warehouses". Geekwire puts it very well - a cross
between WeWork and Public Storage.

Prices start at $600/month. Yeah, that's steep for a hobby
organization, but Mike said "let's brainstorm".

More to Mike's primary question, yes, I would be interested in such an
organization, though living in Bellingham, I'm out of the demographic
for using a dedicated space.

Thanks,

Steve

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 3:56 PM Michael Brutman <mbbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Is there any long term interest in forming a more formal organization (a non-profit) with a maker space or something similar attached to it?

<snip>

--
Steve Stroh (personal / general): steve...@gmail.com

[Michael Brutman]

So the discussion seems to have died out.  To recap before it falls out of cache too ...

Event topics:

• There is definitely interest in an event - 40 people signed up for this mailing list!
• People seem to like the idea of a smaller, more focused event where the primary audience is the hobbyist.
• The event should have the three main ingredients: exhibits, talks, and a buy-sell area.  (I'd add that workshops would be nice too, if we could get instructors.)
• A venue like a hotel ballroom supports a more convention type of format.
• We're probably not doing anything soon because of the continuing pandemic.

Regarding a retro-computing oriented maker space:

• Maker spaces are difficult to get running and to sustain.
• It probably nice to think about, but we are a long way from being ready to discuss it.

I'd still love it if other people spoke up and gave their thoughts on what an event should look like; we did not get a lot of voices here.  Comparing and contrasting to other events you have been to can be helpful.  Nobody here will bite ...

As for the mailing list, well, it's here to use for other purposes  I can start posting PCjr tidbits, but nobody wants to see that ... ;-0

-Mike

[Hudson Green]

I definitely like this idea. There doesn't seem to be very much in terms of vintage computing stuff in the NW that I am aware of at least other than SRCS.

I also absolutely love the idea of workshops as it could help people (including me) learn more about electronics. I think that finding a venue in Seattle might end up being too pricey, so I agree that finding a venue outside of Seattle would be a great idea. Besides, there are definitely a few of us who are 1+hrs away from Seattle anyways, so what's a bit more driving going to hurt?

-Hudson