i really think the moderating is insulting to say the least
aleCodd
ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see any
justification that i have to wait days before my messages get approved..
for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply to somebody help
but guess what? i have to wait another day for this message to go
through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by the end of the
year...
stop the insanity!!!
--
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Tony Mechelynck
>
> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see any
> justification that i have to wait days before my messages get approved..
> for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply to somebody help
> but guess what? i have to wait another day for this message to go
> through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by the end of the
> year...
>
> stop the insanity!!!
Sorry, but it's "been there done that". The list used to be unmoderated,
and the result was spamming. Nowadays you see the messages from
whitelisted users, and you see the messages which the moderators passed
from first-time posters, what you don't see is the spam; and as a
moderator, my estimate is that among first-time posters, about 50% are
spammers. "The insanity" would be the porn and "internet pharmacy" spew
you would get if the list returned to unmoderated status.
Best regards,
Tony.
--
Another bucket of what can only be described as human ordure hits
ARTHUR.
ARTHUR: ... Right! (to the KNIGHTS) That settles it!
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY)
PICTURES LTD
Erik Falor
>
> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see any
> justification that i have to wait days before my messages get approved..
> for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply to somebody help
> but guess what? i have to wait another day for this message to go
> through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by the end of the
> year...
>
> stop the insanity!!!
I can appreciate your frustration, but it is misdirected. Your anger
ought to be directed to the spammers and other scum who abuse our
mailing list. They are the bad guys.
--
Erik Falor
Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org
Tony Mechelynck
> On 17/08/10 10:52, aleCodd wrote:
>>
>> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see any
>> justification that i have to wait days before my messages get approved..
>> for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply to somebody
>> help
>> but guess what? i have to wait another day for this message to go
>> through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by the end of the
>> year...
>>
>> stop the insanity!!!
>
> Sorry, but it's "been there done that". The list used to be unmoderated,
> and the result was spamming. Nowadays you see the messages from
> whitelisted users, and you see the messages which the moderators passed
> from first-time posters, what you don't see is the spam; and as a
> moderator, my estimate is that among first-time posters, about 50% are
> spammers. "The insanity" would be the porn and "internet pharmacy" spew
> you would get if the list returned to unmoderated status.
>
> Best regards,
> Tony.
P.S. I just blocked a post titled "U.K. and Arab teen girls lost
virginity in first sex". aleCodd, if you want a copy of the next one,
you can have one if you wish.
John, Ra�l and I would rather answer posts than block spammers, but
someone has to do it, and when we're in bed sleeping, or in town
shopping, well, just wait until one of us comes back. Sooner or later we
will.
Best regards,
Tony.
--
Ignisecond, n.:
The overlapping moment of time when the hand is locking the car
door even as the brain is saying, "my keys are in there!"
-- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"
Jeffrey 'jf' Lim
<antoine.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/08/10 19:04, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>>
>> On 17/08/10 10:52, aleCodd wrote:
>>>
>>> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see any
>>> justification that i have to wait days before my messages get approved..
>>> for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply to somebody
>>> help
>>> but guess what? i have to wait another day for this message to go
>>> through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by the end of the
>>> year...
>>>
>>> stop the insanity!!!
>>
>> Sorry, but it's "been there done that". The list used to be unmoderated,
>> and the result was spamming. Nowadays you see the messages from
>> whitelisted users, and you see the messages which the moderators passed
>> from first-time posters, what you don't see is the spam; and as a
>> moderator, my estimate is that among first-time posters, about 50% are
>> spammers. "The insanity" would be the porn and "internet pharmacy" spew
>> you would get if the list returned to unmoderated status.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tony.
>
> P.S. I just blocked a post titled "U.K. and Arab teen girls lost virginity
> in first sex". aleCodd, if you want a copy of the next one, you can have one
> if you wish.
>
> has to do it, and when we're in bed sleeping, or in town shopping, well,
> just wait until one of us comes back. Sooner or later we will.
>
>
and I appreciate you guys for doing that! I moderate lists myself -
and I can definitely say that this is work that very often goes
unappreciated.
-jf
--
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."
--Richard Stallman
"It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help."
-- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation
http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228
AK
Thanks very much for moderating the list. I'd much rather wait half a
day or a day than read through heaps of spam. -ak
Benjamin R. Haskell
> On 17/08/10 10:52, aleCodd wrote:
> >
> > ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont
> > see any justification that i have to wait days before my messages
> > get approved.. for example now i posted a question and i wanted to
> > reply to somebody help but guess what? i have to wait another day
> > for this message to go through..so i would be able hopefully get an
> > answer by the end of the year...
> >
> > stop the insanity!!!
>
> Sorry, but it's "been there done that". The list used to be
> unmoderated, and the result was spamming. Nowadays you see the
> messages from whitelisted users, and you see the messages which the
> moderators passed from first-time posters, what you don't see is the
> spam; and as a moderator, my estimate is that among first-time
> posters, about 50% are spammers. "The insanity" would be the porn and
> "internet pharmacy" spew you would get if the list returned to
> unmoderated status.
But aleCodd/ale has posted multiple times in the past. What does it
take to become a "whitelisted user"? Or are you speaking generally when
referring to "whitelisted users" and "first-time posters"?
On the flip side, I don't think you (aleCodd) are helping yourself by
using an email address consisting of a number (33) and a popular website
unrelated to the current list (facebook), and hosted at a huge email
provider (gmail). Depending on what kind of interface the moderators
have, it could be pretty easy to pass that over as spam.
--
Best,
Ben
Tony Mechelynck
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>
>> On 17/08/10 10:52, aleCodd wrote:
>>>
>>> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont
>>> see any justification that i have to wait days before my messages
>>> get approved.. for example now i posted a question and i wanted to
>>> reply to somebody help but guess what? i have to wait another day
>>> for this message to go through..so i would be able hopefully get an
>>> answer by the end of the year...
>>>
>>> stop the insanity!!!
>>
>> Sorry, but it's "been there done that". The list used to be
>> unmoderated, and the result was spamming. Nowadays you see the
>> messages from whitelisted users, and you see the messages which the
>> moderators passed from first-time posters, what you don't see is the
>> spam; and as a moderator, my estimate is that among first-time
>> posters, about 50% are spammers. "The insanity" would be the porn and
>> "internet pharmacy" spew you would get if the list returned to
>> unmoderated status.
>
> But aleCodd/ale has posted multiple times in the past. What does it
> take to become a "whitelisted user"? Or are you speaking generally when
> referring to "whitelisted users" and "first-time posters"?
I was speaking in general. Normally, a first post (not from a given
person but from a given email address) is "moderated" until some human
moderator has ascertained that it is either spam (and banned
[blacklisted] the sender) or legitimate (and authorised [whitelisted]
him). In dubious cases, individual messages may be allowed or blocked
without taking the author off moderation, but that is exceptional � the
fewer posts we have to moderate the better.
If he posted multiple times in the past (other than the handful of
messages which I authorized together with the one at the head of this
thread) it must have been from a different email address.
>
> On the flip side, I don't think you (aleCodd) are helping yourself by
> using an email address consisting of a number (33) and a popular website
> unrelated to the current list (facebook), and hosted at a huge email
> provider (gmail). Depending on what kind of interface the moderators
> have, it could be pretty easy to pass that over as spam.
>
I don't know the details of how John and Ra�l do it, but I look first at
the Subject line: in most cases it is enough to know if the message is
legitimate or spam. If still in doubt, I check the text of the message.
I pass no judgment on what the author's From-line consists of � unless
it is blatantly porn.
Best regards,
Tony.
--
Unquestionably, there is progress. The average American now pays out
twice as much in taxes as he formerly got in wages.
-- H. L. Mencken
bill lam
identify where the delay was? You may try post throught google group
website or the real gmail smtp for comparison.
BTW I think you owned the moderators an apology.
--
regards,
====================================================
GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24
gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3
Raúl Núñez de Arenas Coronado
aleCodd <3...@gmail.com> skribis:
> ive been a user for months and even helped out many times, i dont see
> any justification that i have to wait days before my messages get
> approved.. for example now i posted a question and i wanted to reply
> to somebody help but guess what? i have to wait another day for this
> message to go through..so i would be able hopefully get an answer by
> the end of the year...
>
> stop the insanity!!!
To tell the truth, I was not going to reply to this thread, but I've
changed my mind. From the subject of your post I deduce you feel
insulted by the moderators. I'm one of them, so imagine how do *I* feel
after reading your message.
You don't see any justification for your posts to wait days. Well, I'll
give you some, although I haven't seen a request in the moderation queue
for more than a few hours.
For a start, moderators do this for free, on our spare time. And I'm not
talking for myself, certainly, as I am the moderator that does less
work. John manages the Vim Wiki and helps in the list. Tony... what can
I say about Tony: I don't think there is a member of this list that has
not been helped by Tony at some point. And still, John and Tony spend
additional time to deal with this list spam so all members can enjoy a
spam-free mailing list. Do you really think you can ask for more?
In addition to this, we simply cannot be connected and aware of new
moderation requests at any time. We have a life outside this list and
sometimes we are not connected. Tony and me, we share the timezone, so
probably we are connected and processing requests at the same hours.
Tony does this much more than me, specially lately because I've been
having problems with my computer. John is almost in the opposite side of
the globe, so he works while we are sleeping. But sometimes nobody is
connected and processing requests, so messages take a bit more of time
to reach the list.
But anyway, this is not very frequent, as if someone posts a legitimate
message, that user is whitelisted and not moderated, except in very
particular situations. So most of the time we have mail from new, still
moderated members, or spam. If you posted in the past, you probably were
whitelisted with some email address. Not the one you're using now,
certainly, because Tony had to moderate your messages.
So, putting the blame on the moderation system is, at best, a very
uninformed opinion. At worst, an offense to the moderators. Not me,
certainly, because I couldn't care less about your opinions, but people
like John and Tony, that give a humongous amount of their little spare
time to the list, with no retribution except the feeling of community.
It's good you got your replies before the end of the year (just four
and a half months to go of margin, *that's* tight), so in my very humble
opinion, you should apologize to John and Tony. Don't bother to do the
same with me, as I told you I don't give a darn about you or your
opinions: you got Vim for free, the list for free, human spam filtering
for free, and you still want more...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at you, I'm not even angry, because
there are much more important problems in life, it's only that I don't
think it's fair to write such an insulting message directed to the
people that give the most to the Vim community (and again, that doesn't
include me: I only do a minor fraction of the work that John and Tony
do).
Think about it, and if you think the same as me and feel like that, post
an apologize to John and Tony, please.
And thanks to all the members that supported the moderators, really :)
--
Raúl "DervishD" Núñez de Arenas Coronado
Linux Registered User 88736 | http://www.dervishd.net
The revolution will not be televised
Tony Mechelynck
Speaking for myself (obviously I cannot speak for John), I don't need an
apology.
I think the OP made an honest mistake, not knowing how much spam the
moderators block, and I tried to enlighten him/her. Sure it's
frustrating when you send a post and it doesn't come back for hours,
especially if it's your first post: you may then be in doubt as to
whether you were correctly subscribed.
I for one would certainly prefer it as it was in the first few days (or
weeks?) after switching to Google groups, with no moderation and no
spam, or hardly any. But the spammers found out, and we had to lock the
gate, putting new subscribers on a sort of grey list until their first
post(s) let moderators decide that they deserve either whitelisting or
blacklisting. This change of policy was successful, in that we get
practically no spam on the list, but it is of course more
manpower-intensive than an unmoderated list would be. If you (aleCodd)
want to see what happens when a group is unmoderated (and has been for a
long time), you may for instance take a look at
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.calendar . After you do,
I don't think you'll still be lobbying to get that kind of crap on the
Vim groups.
Best regards,
Tony.
--
If life is a stage, I want some better lighting.
Kazuo Teramoto
> For a start, moderators do this for free, on our spare time. And I'm not
> talking for myself, certainly, as I am the moderator that does less
> work. John manages the Vim Wiki and helps in the list. Tony... what can
> I say about Tony: I don't think there is a member of this list that has
> not been helped by Tony at some point. And still, John and Tony spend
> additional time to deal with this list spam so all members can enjoy a
> spam-free mailing list. Do you really think you can ask for more?
I think this is a good time to say how much I like to thank for the
work of the moderators and to the all other regulars on this list. I
can, without any doubt, say that this user group is one of the most
organized, helpfully and friendly I ever participated.
And about Tony, in my circle of friend, Tony is somewhat as a hero,
including some "Tony Facts" and "What Would Tony Do?" =] This is not
really fair, because we can really nominate a lot of more heroes from
this list, but Tony, as Raúl said, friendly helped everyone at last
one time.
Regards,
Kazuo
--
«Dans la vie, rien n'est à craindre, tout est à comprendre»
Marie Sklodowska Curie.
caruso_g
> work of the moderators and to the all other regulars on this list. I
> can, without any doubt, say that this user group is one of the most
> organized, helpfully and friendly I ever participated.
moderators for their FREE work.
Practically, Vim group is the only one to which I am subscribed since
it is the only one worth reading in my email client (and I have a
*lot* of other groups in my G account).
Google groups has a great problem with spam (just Google for jQuery
group switching to another platform due to spam plague) and those
*heores* are making a really good job.
Thank you all guys.
Paul Stewart
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