Vim on the iPad

[Eric Weir]

I'm likely to purchase an iPad soon and I'm wondering if there have been any developments since the discussion here back in September. <http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/browse_frm/month/2012-09> At that time absence of the escape and control keys, lack of a file system, and getting files to and from the iPad were the main obstacles. 

There were work-arounds for most of them, but most of them, especially those addressing the lack of a file system, were complicated and over-the-head of this non-techie user. But that was true of Vim itself when I first contemplated giving it a try, and now whether there's a way to get it working on an iPad is a consideration in thinking about purchasing an iPad. 

So I thought I'd check to see if the situation has changed since September.  

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Weir

eew...@bellsouth.net

"The invincible shield of caring

Is a weapon sent from the sky 

against being dead." 

- Tao Te Ching 67

[Jeroen Budts]

On 12/30/2012 07:26 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> I'm likely to purchase an iPad soon and I'm wondering if there have been
> any developments since the discussion here back in September.
> <http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/browse_frm/month/2012-09> At
> that time absence of the escape and control keys, lack of a file system,
> and getting files to and from the iPad were the main obstacles.
>
> There were work-arounds for most of them, but most of them, especially
> those addressing the lack of a file system, were complicated and
> over-the-head of this non-techie user. But that was true of Vim itself
> when I first contemplated giving it a try, and now whether there's a way
> to get it working on an iPad is a consideration in thinking about
> purchasing an iPad.
>
> So I thought I'd check to see if the situation has changed since
> September.

I have no idea about the ipad, but I do have some experience in running
Vim on a cheap Android tablet.

For Android there are at least 3 methods:
* vimtouch: which is a touch-optimized version of vim, but restricted by
the normal android rules (no access to most files etc). For me
personally that is rahter useless.
* Terminal IDE: This is a lightweight Unix environment for Android which
includes a fully functional vim.
* Debian Kit: this allows you to install a full (terminal only) Debian
(or Ubuntu) on your Android, which runs together with Android. I really
like this, as it allows you to install most commandline applications
using apt-get, including a full vim (with Python, Ruby) etc, with your
own config, plugins etc.

Considering the keyboard: if you install the 'hackers keyboard' (free
from Google Play) you get a full qwerty keyboard which includes keys
like control and escape.

Not sure if this helps...

Jeroen

[Chris Schneider]

Vim is usable on a remote server with my ipad & external keyboard.

I use `prompt` to ssh up to a remote server I own and then just attach to tmux from there.  Specifically I use a logitech ultrathin keyboard case.  It works well enough, but there's no explicit esc key, so you need to get used to using ctrl-[ instead.  Not that big of a deal if you do it often enough.

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[Eric Weir]

On Dec 30, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Chris Schneider wrote:

Vim is usable on a remote server with my ipad & external keyboard.

I use `prompt` to ssh up to a remote server I own and then just attach to tmux from there.  Specifically I use a logitech ultrathin keyboard case.  It works well enough, but there's no explicit esc key, so you need to get used to using ctrl-[ instead.  Not that big of a deal if you do it often enough.

Thanks, Chris. The earlier discussion produced a link to a detailed account of this option. It was what I was referring to when I said the options suggested were pretty complicated for me. I use Vim for plain old-fashioned writing, not coding, and needed a lot of help initially in learning how to work with Vim and getting it to work for me. 

My naivete will probably be on display in this question, but I'm curious what operating system you're in when you're on the server. 

Thanks,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position, 

but certainty is an absurd one."
 

- Voltaire

[Benjamin Klein]

On Dec 30, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Chris Schneider <ch...@christopher-schneider.com> wrote:

> Vim is usable on a remote server with my ipad & external keyboard.
>
> I use `prompt` to ssh up to a remote server I own and then just attach to tmux from there. Specifically I use a logitech ultrathin keyboard case. It works well enough, but there's no explicit esc key, so you need to get used to using ctrl-[ instead. Not that big of a deal if you do it often enough.

Eric: Yes, this seems to be about the only practical method (short of jailbreaking) by which we currently can use Vim on an iPad: an external keyboard for input and a remote server (something other than your actual local filesystem) for the actual edited files.

If you are willing to jailbreak your device, though (and this *is* a bit of a techie-ish thing to do, although I can say from my experience that some of the more popular tools for this are becoming quite usable for non-hacker-type users lately), a reasonable-sounding approach would be to do something like what I now see David Sanson suggested way back in September — use something like Prompt to ssh into localhost and use whatever vim is available there. I guess a downside to that approach would be that you don’t necessarily have a terribly-complete vim built in, but at that point you would be in a position to compile a flavor of your own choosing, with all of the generally-required dependencies. I have never yet had occasion to do this myself do perhaps I should cease to advise you on how best to do it, though. :}

The last place of all to check in my opinion would be the iOS app. For me anything short of a standard filesystem would simply be too clumsy to work with, but worse than that, as of Nov. 14 this year it seems that the iOS app does not even have Dropbox support, and the only mentioned means of getting to your files is through iTunes File Sharing.

So to summarize my rambling here:

1. There isn’t yet a practical way of using standard “vim with filesystem” on iOS *without either jailbreaking or ssh-ing into a remote server.* (If there’s anyone on the list who knows of something available or being developed to answer this problem, please point this out to me.)

2. The provided iOS keyboard is no good for Vim, so you should use an external keyboard of one form or another for maximum vimmability (whether a keyboard case or an Apple wireless keyboard).

--
b

Sent from my iPhone

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 30, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Benjamin Klein wrote:

> Eric: Yes, this seems to be about the only practical method (short of jailbreaking) by which we currently can use Vim on an iPad: an external keyboard for input and a remote server (something other than your actual local filesystem) for the actual edited files.
>
> If you are willing to jailbreak your device, though (and this *is* a bit of a techie-ish thing to do, although I can say from my experience that some of the more popular tools for this are becoming quite usable for non-hacker-type users lately), a reasonable-sounding approach would be to do something like what I now see David Sanson suggested way back in September — use something like Prompt to ssh into localhost and use whatever vim is available there. I guess a downside to that approach would be that you don’t necessarily have a terribly-complete vim built in, but at that point you would be in a position to compile a flavor of your own choosing, with all of the generally-required dependencies. I have never yet had occasion to do this myself do perhaps I should cease to advise you on how best to do it, though. :}
>
> The last place of all to check in my opinion would be the iOS app. For me anything short of a standard filesystem would simply be too clumsy to work with, but worse than that, as of Nov. 14 this year it seems that the iOS app does not even have Dropbox support, and the only mentioned means of getting to your files is through iTunes File Sharing.
>
> So to summarize my rambling here:
>
> 1. There isn’t yet a practical way of using standard “vim with filesystem” on iOS *without either jailbreaking or ssh-ing into a remote server.* (If there’s anyone on the list who knows of something available or being developed to answer this problem, please point this out to me.)
>
> 2. The provided iOS keyboard is no good for Vim, so you should use an external keyboard of one form or another for maximum vimmability (whether a keyboard case or an Apple wireless keyboard).

Thanks, Benjamin. "SSH-ing into local host" is Greek to me at the moment. But as I say so was Vim a couple years ago. Perhaps I'll consider it down the road. A main use of the iPad for me will be simply reading and annotating pdfs. Writing would be another one if I could get Vim running on it. And I can't imagine Vim without my plugins and .vimrc configuration.

The Android options described by Jeroen, especially the one that allows a fully-functioning Vim, is appealing.

Couple of questions: Do Android tablets have a file system? [Or is that what would be provided by Jeroen's third option, installing a Debian kit?] Is iOS still a version of Uniix?

Sincerely,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Imagining the other is a powerful antidote to fanaticism and hatred."

- Amos Oz

[David Turetsky]

You can read and richly annotate PDF files under iOS using GoodReader

--
David

[Benjamin Klein]

On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Couple of questions: Do Android tablets have a file system? [Or is that what would be provided by Jeroen's third option, installing a Debian kit?] Is iOS still a version of Uniix?

From Wikipedia: “iOS is derived from OS X, with which it shares the Darwin foundation, and is therefore a Unix operating system.” So to the iOS question: Yes. And you can get at a lot of the underlying Unix OS if you’re OK with jailbreaking — but there are plenty of power user types that decide to not do that, and it probably would require a bit of hacker-type setup to be able to comfortably use Vim on a jailbroken iPad with files etc. managed by hand through the filesystem.

Be warned that I have never used an Android device. :} However from what I have read it seems that although there is no native Android file browser, there are multiple choices from third parties for this (the most popular or well-known seems to be Astro — https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.metago.astro&hl=en). And there are also nice terminal emulators in Google Play (for Android). So in an Android tablet it looks like you would have the filesystem issue taken care of, and it would only remain to be seen if the native vim included in whatever Android variant you ended up using would be usable enough for the type of writing that you do.

If you do decide to go with an Android device, this article could perhaps be useful: http://gdr.geekhood.net/gdrwpl/vim-android.php.

--
b

[stosss]

Eric, you have a lot more flexibility with Android than you do with
ipad. My computer runs Linux and my phone runs Android and my nook
runs Android. I can do the same things on both the nook and the phone.
I have not attempted to run Vim on either. I much rather sit in front
of my large wide screen desktop monitor for text editing.

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:04 PM, Benjamin Klein wrote:

> From Wikipedia: “iOS is derived from OS X, with which it shares the Darwin foundation, and is therefore a Unix operating system.” So to the iOS question: Yes. And you can get at a lot of the underlying Unix OS if you’re OK with jailbreaking — but there are plenty of power user types that decide to not do that, and it probably would require a bit of hacker-type setup to be able to comfortably use Vim on a jailbroken iPad with files etc. managed by hand through the filesystem.

I was just curious, Benjamin. Even with *a lot* of hand-holding I wouldn't think of attempting to jailbreak an iPad.

> Be warned that I have never used an Android device. :} However from what I have read it seems that although there is no native Android file browser, there are multiple choices from third parties for this (the most popular or well-known seems to be Astro —https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.metago.astro&hl=en). And there are also nice terminal emulators in Google Play (for Android). So in an Android tablet it looks like you would have the filesystem issue taken care of, and it would only remain to be seen if the native vim included in whatever Android variant you ended up using would be usable enough for the type of writing that you do.

After checking out some of the Android tablets I decided I was willing to put out the extra $100 to $150 and bit the bullet for an iPad. I'll put the issue of running Vim off till I get comfortable with the iPad, especially communicating with my MacBook.

At that point I may take a look at the option David Sanson suggested back in September. The main problem there I imagine is not having access to a server. I am not affiliated with an institution or company that would make that available to me.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"The most important thing is the tee-shirt."

Samara Alnafdage

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:04 PM, Benjamin Klein wrote:

> From Wikipedia: “iOS is derived from OS X, with which it shares the Darwin foundation, and is therefore a Unix operating system.” So to the iOS question: Yes. And you can get at a lot of the underlying Unix OS if you’re OK with jailbreaking — but there are plenty of power user types that decide to not do that, and it probably would require a bit of hacker-type setup to be able to comfortably use Vim on a jailbroken iPad with files etc. managed by hand through the filesystem.

I was just curious, Benjamin. Even with *a lot* of hand-holding I wouldn't think of attempting to jailbreak an iPad.

> Be warned that I have never used an Android device. :} However from what I have read it seems that although there is no native Android file browser, there are multiple choices from third parties for this (the most popular or well-known seems to be Astro —https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.metago.astro&hl=en). And there are also nice terminal emulators in Google Play (for Android). So in an Android tablet it looks like you would have the filesystem issue taken care of, and it would only remain to be seen if the native vim included in whatever Android variant you ended up using would be usable enough for the type of writing that you do.

After checking out some of the Android tablets I decided I was willing to put out the extra $100 to $150 and bit the bullet for an iPad. I'll put the issue of running Vim off till I get comfortable with the iPad, especially communicating with my MacBook.

At that point I may take a look at the option David Sanson suggested back in September. The main problem there I imagine is not having access to a server. I am not affiliated with an institution or company that would make that available to me.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

[David Sanson]

I've made no progress on this, for what it is worth. SSH-ing into a server from Prompt.app and using an Apple Bluetooth keyboard works fine---including support for the ESC key. But, at least on the server I have easy access to, it is laggy, so I don't do it. I still haven't tried the jailbreak/localhost option, because I got sick of jailbreaking several iOS updates ago.

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 31, 2012, at 2:43 PM, stosss wrote:

> Eric, you have a lot more flexibility with Android than you do with
> ipad. My computer runs Linux and my phone runs Android and my nook
> runs Android. I can do the same things on both the nook and the phone.
> I have not attempted to run Vim on either. I much rather sit in front
> of my large wide screen desktop monitor for text editing.

Thanks, Stosss. I understand. As you may have noticed, I decided to stick with the Mac environment. All Linux or all Mac are feasible---except with respect to Vim on the latter---but I'm not up for the hassles of figuring out how to combine the two.

And like you, I may have to content myself to composing and editing on my other machine, a laptop for me. My experience is limited---about three days, now---but composing, let alone editing, even a sentence on the iPad is excruciating. With a keyboard it might be different, but I'm not there yet.

My main reason for wanting a tablet was for reading and annotating pdfs, which with the combination of Dropbox and PDF Expert, looks to be no sweat.

I don't know, if someone would give me a good price on a linux system, laptop and tablet, already configured to work together I might be tempted down the road, as my MacBook is getting a little long in the tooth these days.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA

eew...@bellsouth.net

"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are
full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

- Charles Bukowski

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:58 AM, David Sanson wrote:

> I've made no progress on this, for what it is worth. SSH-ing into a server from Prompt.app and using an Apple Bluetooth keyboard works fine---including support for the ESC key. But, at least on the server I have easy access to, it is laggy, so I don't do it.

Thanks, David. If you ever get word of a solution, I'd like to hear about it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Our world is a human world." - Hilary Putnam

[Alexandre Provencio]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:58 AM, David Sanson wrote:
>
>> I've made no progress on this, for what it is worth. SSH-ing into a server from Prompt.app and using an Apple Bluetooth keyboard works fine---including support for the ESC key. But, at least on the server I have easy access to, it is laggy, so I don't do it.
>
> Thanks, David. If you ever get word of a solution, I'd like to hear about it.

Another worth approach for android in a near future (I hope) is Ubuntu's
phone solutions, like this one http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android, so
you can have not only vim but all linux native packages.

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Weir
> eew...@bellsouth.net
>
> "Our world is a human world." - Hilary Putnam
>
>
>

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Alexandre Provencio wrote:

> Another worth approach for android in a near future (I hope) is Ubuntu's
> phone solutions, like this one http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android, so
> you can have not only vim but all linux native packages.

Very interesting. With a tablet and a keypad you'd be set.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA

[Eric Weir]

Hacker's Keyboard for Google Nexus tablets.

> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5wb2NrZXR3b3Jrc3RhdGlvbi5wY2tleWJvYXJkIl0.

[stosss]

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hacker's Keyboard for Google Nexus tablets.
>
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5wb2NrZXR3b3Jrc3RhdGlvbi5wY2tleWJvYXJkIl0.

The app looked great until I discovered it can log all your key
strokes. No thanks! We are being spied enough already without inviting
it.


--
"In the days of ancient Rome when the republic was still a republic,
Lucius Cassius, one of the city's most venerated consuls, famously
coined the phrase cui bono.

It means As a benefit to whom?, and Lucius Cassius, inquisitive and
analytical by nature, was always asking the question... whether he was
investigating a crime or unraveling political corruption." - Simon
Black

Like I have always said, "Follow the flow of the money it always
reveals the truth."

[Jeroen Budts]

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Hash: SHA256

On 03/07/2013 09:12 PM, stosss wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hacker's Keyboard for Google Nexus tablets.
>>
>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5wb2NrZXR3b3Jrc3RhdGlvbi5wY2tleWJvYXJkIl0.
>
>>>
>>>
> The app looked great until I discovered it can log all your key
> strokes. No thanks! We are being spied enough already without
> inviting it.
>

Ofcourse it can log all your keystrokes, it's a keyboard! You use it
to enter to keystrokes, how would a software (or hardware) keyboard
work without having that ability?
It does not request any permissions to use a network connection so
even if it would log all your keys, it wont get the data out...
I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over to the
tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed tablet
device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the Hacker's
Keyboard really is awesome.

Jeroen



- --
website: http://budts.be/ - twitter: @teranex
___________________________________
Registered Linux User #482240 - GetFirefox.com - ubuntu.com

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[Eric Weir]

On Mar 7, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be> wrote:

> I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
> VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over to the
> tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed tablet
> device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the Hacker's
> Keyboard really is awesome.

Does VimTouch do syncing, e.g., to Dropbox or SugarSync?

When you responded at the beginning of this thread you weren't keen on VimTouch.

Surely similar functionality is possible with iOS. Or is it just locked down tighter than Androd?

Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA. USA

"The invincible shield of caring

is a weapon from the sky
against being dead."

– Tao Te Ching, 67

[stosss]

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be> wrote:
>
>> I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
>> VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over to the
>> tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed tablet
>> device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the Hacker's
>> Keyboard really is awesome.
>
> Does VimTouch do syncing, e.g., to Dropbox or SugarSync?
>
> When you responded at the beginning of this thread you weren't keen on VimTouch.
>
> Surely similar functionality is possible with iOS. Or is it just locked down tighter than Androd?

I can answer part of your question. iOS is closed source/proprietary
and Android is open source/free. Any time you compare these two
sources closed and open you are going to have much greater access with
open then with closed. The source name says it all. Open = total
access. closed = little to no access. open source is what makes vim
possible.

[David Sanson]

I recently gave in and jailbroke my iPad2, and was able to install cli versions of vim, git, etc, without too much trouble. The binaries available in the default cydia repos are outdated, but the binaries in [radare's repo] are fairly recent (the vim build doesn't include python or ruby support). Running vim by ssh-ing to loclahost with Prompt, using the Apple Bluetooth keyboard, works well.

[AK]

One issue I've run into with Vim on stock Android was that I couldn't
get either the Esc or the ctrl-[ key to work from the external key-
board. Both would result in ^@ character.

Is this something that can be fixed? I'm only interested in working
with the external keyboard because I can't understand how people
can use touch keyboard for anything more than 5-8 characters at
a time like typing in a url or something like that.

-ak

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 7, 2013, at 11:46 PM, AK wrote:

> I can't understand how people
> can use touch keyboard for anything more than 5-8 characters at
> a time like typing in a url or something like that.

i've gotten used to it. And pretty quickly. And I like not having to lug around a bluetooth, though I know some of them are pretty compact. My problem---my tablet's an ipad---is the keys that are difficult to get to or missing altogether.

Impressed checking out vim on android yesterday with the numerous alternative keyboards that are available. Wish that were true for ios.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
eew...@bellsouth.net

“Guess, compute the consequences of the guess,
check if they agree with the evidence, and if the evidence
persistently refuses to agree, the guess is wrong.”

- Richard Feynman

[Jeroen Budts]

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On 03/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric Weir wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be>
> wrote:
>
>> I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
>> VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over
>> to the tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed
>> tablet device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the
>> Hacker's Keyboard really is awesome.
>
> Does VimTouch do syncing, e.g., to Dropbox or SugarSync?

VimTouch itself doesn't do any syncing. I do however use the DropSync
app to synchronize my notes to Dropbox. Dropsync can be configured to
watch one or more folder for changes and sync them immediately when a
file is created/updated. It also regularly pulls in new/updated files
from your dropbox. As soon as I hit `:w` in VimTouch my note is
synchronized to my Dropbox.

> When you responded at the beginning of this thread you weren't keen
> on VimTouch.

True, and I must say that I was wrong on this. VimTouch is really
nice. It is the real Vim (= C source code with no modifications at
all) compiled for ARM and wrapped by an Android app to integrate it
into the system. It also comes with the entire Vim runtime. It also
reads .vimrc and .vim from the sdcard (/sdcard, or on Nexus 7:
/storage/emulated/legacy), so you can simply copy your entire Vim
config to there (I use dropsync to automatically pull in my Vim config)

One reason why I wasn't keen on VimTouch when I first started with
Android was because at that time I was using Git to store my notes and
a wrapper script to (1) update my notes, (2) start vim and wait for it
to close (3) push my notes back into the Git repository. This workflow
is not possible with VimTouch (but it is with Terminal IDE and Debian
Kit). Switching to Dropbox for my notes has solved this.

> Surely similar functionality is possible with iOS. Or is it just
> locked down tighter than Androd?

- From what I have read in this discussion it surely seems that iOS is
locked a lot tighter than Android...

Jeroen

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[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 03/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

> On Mar 7, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be>
> wrote:
>
>> I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
>> VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over
>> to the tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed
>> tablet device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the
>> Hacker's Keyboard really is awesome.
>
> Does VimTouch do syncing, e.g., to Dropbox or SugarSync?
>
> When you responded at the beginning of this thread you weren't keen
> on VimTouch.

Addendum: the developer of VimTouch is also very actively working on
the project and very quick to respond. A few weeks ago both me and
another VimTouch user asked for 256 color support (only 8 colors where
available) and a week later a new VimTouch was released with 256 color
support :)

Jeroen

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[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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I haven't seen this issue. I use a very cheap and small bluetooth
keyboard for my Google Nexus 7 and I can type Ctrl-[ without any
problems (the keyboard has no Esc). Most of the time I use CTRL-c
however as I find that easier to type and I'm used to that from Bash.

Maybe you can solve this problem with External Keyboard helper?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apedroid.hwkeyboardhelper&hl=en

Jeroen

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[Eric Weir]

On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be> wrote:

> Addendum: the developer of VimTouch is also very actively working on
> the project and very quick to respond. A few weeks ago both me and
> another VimTouch user asked for 256 color support (only 8 colors where
> available) and a week later a new VimTouch was released with 256 color
> support :)

Yes, I gathered that from my poking around on the web about VimTouch. And then there's the iPad app that just sits there on github with no signs of work on it.

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> On 03/08/2013 02:39 AM, Eric Weir wrote:
>> On Mar 7, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I use Hacker's Keyboard daily on my Nexus 7 btw. Together with
>>> VimTouch and my entire Vim config (which I could just copy over
>>> to the tablet, no special tricks required, unlike another unnamed
>>> tablet device discussed here recently...). VimTouch with the
>>> Hacker's Keyboard really is awesome.
>>
>> Does VimTouch do syncing, e.g., to Dropbox or SugarSync?
>>
>> When you responded at the beginning of this thread you weren't keen
>> on VimTouch.
> Addendum: the developer of VimTouch is also very actively working on
> the project and very quick to respond. A few weeks ago both me and
> another VimTouch user asked for 256 color support (only 8 colors where
> available) and a week later a new VimTouch was released with 256 color
> support :)

I wrote to him wondering about a version for the iPad. That may be so far beyond the pale he won't even bother to respond. Even if it were available for the iPad, there would still be the problem of getting files into and out of the app.

At $200, I'm tempted by the Nexus 7 simply to run Vim, or rather, VimTouch. You speak of using the Hacker's Keyboard on it. Isn't that awfully cramped?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"It is the mark of an educated man to look for precision in
each class of things just so far as the nature of the subject admits."

- Aristotle, Nichomachean Ethics

[Benjamin Klein]

On Mar 9, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> At $200, I'm tempted by the Nexus 7 simply to run Vim, or rather, VimTouch.

I myself am likely to jailbreak an iOS device instead. It is sad that there is no way to really make use of Vim apart from jailbreaking, but it is so by definition of the iOS concept -- everything non-Apple-provided safely locked away where it can do no harm, and no such thing as visible files on the end of the user.

Mr. Sanson's experience is encouraging however. If I had never had any *other* reason to jailbreak... ;)

--
b

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 9, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Benjamin Klein wrote:

> On Mar 9, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> At $200, I'm tempted by the Nexus 7 simply to run Vim, or rather, VimTouch.
>
> I myself am likely to jailbreak an iOS device instead.

I came across references to jailbroken devices running hotter. Is that true? Why would that be?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
eew...@bellsouth.net

“On the basis of evidence we may be sure that
we are wrong but we can never be sure that we are right.”

- Richard Feynman

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 10, 2013, at 12:58 AM, Zulox4 wrote:

> Now I use a modified iOS version, I added Control key, Escape key, Tab key using Ctrl-I , html help files, gesture for Ctrl-], Ctrl-T for help text navigation. I have a problem with shift-Tab or shift-Ctrl-I completion, and it's difficult to find where is the bug, I have an idea, but this take some time to implement.

"Modified iOS." Does that mean your device is jailbroken?

That aside, Is your solution something that could be shared with others?

And, of course, the problem of getting files into and out of the dev ice/app remains.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Imagining the other is a powerful antidote to fanaticism and hatred."

- Amos Oz

[Benjamin Klein]

On Mar 10, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Eric Weir <eew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> I came across references to jailbroken devices running hotter. Is that true? Why would that be?

I've only ever done it to my phone, but it did not run noticeably warmer when I did. I haven't heard that they might do that, either, so I can't say why it might be. My phone (iPhone 5) gets fairly hot sometimes, but I haven't jailbroken this one yet. I don't think there is any relation between this and JB.

--
b

Sent from my iPhone

[David Sanson]

I assume he means that he has modified the iOS version of Vim that is on GitHub. If you pay the $99 to be a member of the iOS Developer Program, you can build and install apps to your own device for testing purposes, but you can't distribute the built app except through the App Store. So he can't just make his custom build available if he is playing by Apple's rules.

If you decide not to play by Apple's rules, you could fork the github project and develop an unfettered version, which you could distribute via Cydia to jailbroken devices. Before putting too much time into that, you'd want to think hard about what you gain over the simpler strategy of using the cli version via a ssh console, which is also available once jailbroken.

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 10, 2013, at 10:59 AM, David Sanson <dsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I assume he means that he has modified the iOS version of Vim that is on GitHub. If you pay the $99 to be a member of the iOS Developer Program, you can build and install apps to your own device for testing purposes, but you can't distribute the built app except through the App Store. So he can't just make his custom build available if he is playing by Apple's rules.
>
> If you decide not to play by Apple's rules, you could fork the github project and develop an unfettered version, which you could distribute via Cydia to jailbroken devices. Before putting too much time into that, you'd want to think hard about what you gain over the simpler strategy of using the cli version via a ssh console, which is also available once jailbroken.

Thanks for the clarification, David. I paid for Apple Care on my device when I purchased it at the end of last year. I think I'll not think about jail breaking it before then.

And just to make sure, "cli" means "not gui"?

Regards,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA. USA

"The invincible shield of caring
is a weapon from the sky
against being dead."

– Tao Te Ching, 67


>

> --

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>

[Zulox4]

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 2:28:06 PM UTC+1, Eric Weir wrote:
> On Mar 10, 2013, at 12:58 AM, Zulox4 wrote:
>
>
>
> > Now I use a modified iOS version, I added Control key, Escape key, Tab key using Ctrl-I , html help files, gesture for Ctrl-], Ctrl-T for help text navigation. I have a problem with shift-Tab or shift-Ctrl-I completion, and it's difficult to find where is the bug, I have an idea, but this take some time to implement.
>
>
>
> "Modified iOS." Does that mean your device is jailbroken?

No.

>
>
>
> That aside, Is your solution something that could be shared with others?

Yes. I could share for testing but I have a limited number of device. I'm a member of the Developer Program, i could make my build available to Apple for validation...

>
>
>
> And, of course, the problem of getting files into and out of the dev ice/app remains.

For getting the files into and out of the dev, now you need Itunes, it work only in Documents iOs app folder. For getting the rep you can use Tab (Ctrl-I),for completion, to get the directories and files, but for inverse, shift tab doesn't work.
Also I have a problem with utf8 chars, doesn't work !

>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Eric Weir
>
> Decatur, GA USA
>

> eew....@bellsouth.net

[Tim Chase]

> On 2013-03-10 11:10, Eric Weir wrote:
> And just to make sure, "cli" means "not gui"?

CLI = Command Line Interface
GUI = Graphical User Interface

-tim

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 10, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Zulox4 wrote:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2013 2:28:06 PM UTC+1, Eric Weir wrote:
>>
>> That aside, Is your solution something that could be shared with others?
>
> Yes. I could share for testing but I have a limited number of device. I'm a member of the Developer Program, i could make my build available to Apple for validation...
>>
>> And, of course, the problem of getting files into and out of the dev ice/app remains.
>
> For getting the files into and out of the dev, now you need Itunes, it work only in Documents iOs app folder. For getting the rep you can use Tab (Ctrl-I),for completion, to get the directories and files, but for inverse, shift tab doesn't work.
> Also I have a problem with utf8 chars, doesn't work !

Have you checked out the VimTouch app for Android? Don't mean to be presumptuous, but if not you might get some ideas/help from it.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.momodalo.app.vimtouch&hl=en
https://github.com/momodalo/vimtouch
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/vimtouch-general

Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
eew...@bellsouth.net
Decatur, GA USA

"Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. "

- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Zulox4]

No.

Best regards,

> Have you checked out the VimTouch app for Android? Don't mean to be presumptuous, but if not you might get some ideas/help from it.
>
>
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.momodalo.app.vimtouch&hl=en
>
> https://github.com/momodalo/vimtouch
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/vimtouch-general
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Eric Weir
>

> ee.....@bellsouth.net

[Jeroen Budts]

When you hold the tablet in landscape it is very doable. In portrait
mode, keys are indeed rather small. But then again, compared to a
keyboard on a smartphone, the keys are 'huge' even in portrait mode. But
to type more than a few words/sentences an external bluetooth keyboard
is much better anyway.

Jeroen

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 10, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Jeroen Budts <jer...@lightyear.be> wrote:

>> At $200, I'm tempted by the Nexus 7 simply to run Vim, or rather,
>> VimTouch. You speak of using the Hacker's Keyboard on it. Isn't that
>> awfully cramped?
>
> When you hold the tablet in landscape it is very doable. In portrait
> mode, keys are indeed rather small. But then again, compared to a
> keyboard on a smartphone, the keys are 'huge' even in portrait mode. But
> to type more than a few words/sentences an external bluetooth keyboard
> is much better anyway.

Thanks, Jeroen.

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 18, 2013, at 2:29 PM, MickMcQ <m...@umich.edu> wrote:

> I'd like to add that I use Vim in two main ways on the iPad 3. Most often, I log into a remote Mac using either iSSH or iTeleport. No iPad text editor conserves keystrokes the way Vim does, so that's my main motivation.

I was aware of the iSSH/Prompt options, but not that I could log onto my Mac. My understanding is that they entail running Vim in terminal, which I've never done and am not keen on. A question: could I do this if I was away from home, say at a coffee shop, and had only a wi-fi connection?

> iSSH has the option of a translucent keyboard so that I can see a much larger terminal if I don't use a Bluetooth keyboard---and I don't usually use a Bluetooth keyboard, even though I have two. The iPad is just too convenient to pull out in situations where a keyboard is impractical.

What I want is an enhanced virtual keyboard, one that has the keys needed to run Vim efficiently, like the Hacker's Keyboard for Android. Preferably one that's not app-specific, that could replace the default iPad keyboard. (There are lots of them for Android.)

> I also have Vim on the iPad from the app store. It is actually being developed as far as I can tell. You simply have to download it from github and compile it yourself to get new features, such as the iPhone 5 screen adjustment. I believe that a number of people have modified the code for their own use and described their patches on mailing lists. It's not as convenient as it would be to update the app store version, of course.

Thanks for the heads up about that. I couldn't tell that any work was being done on it. Another thing I've never done—compile. May be mistaken about that, but if I have I might as week not have. Don't remember a think abut it—except maybe that it's not that bigs a deal.

Three necessities that'd cause me to go to any length to get it if they were met: (1) an appropriate keyboard, (2) cut and paste between apps, (3) syncing to the cloud, preferably to SugarSync (it's so much more convenient than Dropbox) or maybe iCloud.

> I have used Vim on various Android tablets and found it wanting for the most part....

Have you tried Vim Touch? I've seen nothing but rave reviews from serious Vimmers.

> On the other hand, the Nexus 10 with Ubuntu Unity may make a better daily Vim platform than the iPad. I would not give up the iPad 3 for it but it would be far easier for me to carry the Nexus 10 and the iPad 3 than the iPad 3 and a laptop. I'm impressed by the video at http://youtu.be/fNYgevHf9EI ....

Yes, Unity looks pretty cool. Since moving to Mac, after a year experimenting with various flavors of Linux, I've been very happy and really can't imagine switching away. But the frustrations of iOS—the lack of a file system and the inability to do any more than minimal tweaking—have given me pause, and Unity is pretty appealing. Unfortunately, it's not going to be available till the end of the hear. I assume you'd be able to run standard GUI Vim on it, albeit adapted to Unity.

> Finally, since the original poster mentioned pdfs, I should add that my favorite use of the iPad is to read pdfs with Goodreader. I have not found a better pdf reader on any platform, including Android, X11, and Mac. '

I almost went for Goodreader, but ended up going with PDF Expert from Readdle and not sorry i did. The toolbars are readily accessible and, what made me pick it in the first place, you can export your annotations, e.g., e, text selections and notes, to a text file. Very handy.

Tech support is great. They have several apps; all, including the established ones, under continuous development; and they respond promptly to requests for help. Haven't encountered that many problems, but a couple times they put a good bit of time into figuring out what was going on.

Regards,

[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 03/20/2013 01:06 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
> On Mar 18, 2013, at 2:29 PM, MickMcQ <m...@umich.edu> wrote: Three

> necessities that'd cause me to go to any length to get it if they
> were met: (1) an appropriate keyboard, (2) cut and paste between
> apps, (3) syncing to the cloud, preferably to SugarSync (it's so
> much more convenient than Dropbox) or maybe iCloud.

Since Vimtouch / Android are now also described in this thread, some
additional information:
(1) As you say you have plenty of choices on Android

(2) Cut and paste between apps on Android is very easy. Tap-and-hold a
piece of text and a small toolbar pops-up where you can select cut/copy.
Then in another app you can tap-and-hold in a textfield and a paste
button will show up. In Vimtouch you can use the default paste registers
(*/+) to paste from and copy to the system clipboard.

(3) The latest Vimtouch release (2.3, released yesterday) now uses some
standaard Android interface to open files which let you choose files
from other apps. This even allows you to immediately select a file from
your Dropbox. A really nice improvement. I guess if you use SugarSync,
it would also show up in that dialog.
Why do you think SugarSync is more convenient than Dropbox? (I just
upgraded to a paid Dropbox account a few days ago. When I had a look at
SugarSync, they were more expensive and had no Linux client.)

Jeroen

- --

website: http://budts.be/ - twitter: @teranex
___________________________________
Registered Linux User #482240 - GetFirefox.com - ubuntu.com

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[Eric Weir]

On Mar 20, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> (3) The latest Vimtouch release (2.3, released yesterday) now uses some
> standaard Android interface to open files which let you choose files
> from other apps. This even allows you to immediately select a file from
> your Dropbox. A really nice improvement. I guess if you use SugarSync,
> it would also show up in that dialog.

Thanks, Jeroen. I guess that's another instance of open source vs. Apple. (I don't expect open source from Apple. I would like to have a files system and access to it.]

> Why do you think SugarSync is more convenient than Dropbox? (I just
> upgraded to a paid Dropbox account a few days ago. When I had a look at
> SugarSync, they were more expensive and had no Linux client.)

I don't know anything about expense. I think SugarSync gives you twice as much free storage---5Gb---as Dropbox. I've used half that and I don't see myself needing more.

But most important, in SugarSync you sync folders in your file system, not in a special folder as in Dropbox. When you sync a folder it's copied into a SugarSync folder, but these folders are synced back to the original folders in the file system. Never need to copy from the SugarSync folder back to the file system.

Also, I can share folders with others even if they don't have a SugarSync account.

It was a little confusing to me at first, but now that I've got it working, the only attention I have to give it is to sync or unsync folders.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position,
but certainty is an absurd one."

- Voltaire

[Eric Weir]

On Mar 20, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> 2) Cut and paste between apps on Android is very easy. Tap-and-hold a
> piece of text and a small toolbar pops-up where you can select cut/copy.
> Then in another app you can tap-and-hold in a textfield and a paste
> button will show up. In Vimtouch you can use the default paste registers
> (*/+) to paste from and copy to the system clipboard.
>
> (3) The latest Vimtouch release (2.3, released yesterday) now uses some
> standaard Android interface to open files which let you choose files
> from other apps. This even allows you to immediately select a file from
> your Dropbox. A really nice improvement. I guess if you use SugarSync,
> it would also show up in that dialog.

Since getting my iPad, Jeroen, I haven spent very little time on my laptop. Before getting the iPad most of my time on the laptop was spent in Vim, primarily VimWiki. I really miss them. Even feel a little crippled without them. Seriously thinking about investing in a Nexus 10 just to run Vim.

The experience with the iPad has really gotten me irritated at Apple. I can understand that for many users locking up the operating system might be a good idea. But when it prevents others from configuring their systems the way they want, from using apps that would otherwise be open to them, it just seems wrong.

Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir

[stosss]

Hi Eric,

That is one of the very reasons that the Open Source Software community came about. There are hundreds of thousands (maybe several million by now) of people that disagree with the proprietary corporate ways of locking and controlling what you can and can't do on a computer. Apple almost did themselves in a few decades ago with their stubborn proprietary ways. Microsoft took advantage of that and became the mega corporation that they are now. Some how Apple manged to recover from their proprietary lock you out of everything policy. The bigger the corporation the more they don't care about the individual.

For the last 10 years I have only used Linux and no proprietary systems.

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"In the days of ancient Rome when the republic was still a republic, Lucius Cassius, one of the city's most venerated consuls, famously coined the phrase cui bono.

It means As a benefit to whom?, and Lucius Cassius, inquisitive and analytical by nature, was always asking the question... whether he was investigating a crime or unraveling political corruption." - Simon Black

Like I have always said, "Follow the flow of the money it always reveals the truth."

[Eric Weir]

On Apr 3, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

> Seriously thinking about investing in a Nexus 10 just to run Vim.

Well, Jeroen, I did it. Got myself a 32 GB Nexus 10. Now that I've had a little---very little---experience with it I may return it and exchange it for a Nexus 7, since I envision the machine, whichever version, as being used almost exclusively to run Vim.

I have Vim Touch installed and Vim Touch runtime downloaded. Wasn't sure how to install the latter. A response on the Vim Touch google group explained that I should click on extra downloads in the android menu for the app and select the runtime extension from there. I went through the motions but got no report of any action. I'm not sure whether the runtime extension has been added or not.

Also uncertain what I do to replicate---as near as possible; you and others have indicated it should close to perfect---the Vim installation on my MacBook.

I have a concern about android. When I went to download the hacker's keyboard I noticed that the permissions indicated that I would be giving pretty complete access to my entire system to anyone who wanted access to it. It even cautions "malicious apps may share contact data without your knowledge." I understand that this is standard for the android OS, and with few exceptions most apps. Perhaps I don't understand, but as I understand I find this disturbing.

Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA

eew...@bellsouth.net

"With an ounce of willingness, everything can change."

- Kim

[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi Eric,

On 04/20/2013 04:56 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> I have Vim Touch installed and Vim Touch runtime downloaded.
> Wasn't sure how to install the latter. A response on the Vim Touch
> google group explained that I should click on extra downloads in
> the android menu for the app and select the runtime extension from
> there. I went through the motions but got no report of any action.
> I'm not sure whether the runtime extension has been added or not.

I just read the mail on the vimtouch mailinglist as well, the answer
is indeed not very clear. Vim Touch is split into two 'apps'. 'Vim
Touch' itself is only Vim (the core) and the app itself. 'Vim Touch
Runtime' contains all the extra vimscripts most of us have come to
expect to be available in Vim, such as netrw & matchit.
So you can perfectly install only Vim Touch to have a very basic Vim.
If you also install the runtime, you will be able to use netrw etc.
Since the runtime extends the Vim Touch app, it doesn't show up as a
separate app. To verify that it is installed, you can check in Google
Play that it says 'installed', and also by launching Vim Touch and
doing something like `:e ~/`. If this gives a filelisting in netrw,
you have the runtime installed.

> Also uncertain what I do to replicate---as near as possible; you
> and others have indicated it should close to perfect---the Vim
> installation on my MacBook.

You simply upload your .vimrc-file and .vim-folder onto the device. On
a Nexus device you should place the file & folder into
/storage/emulated/0/ (or as mentioned in the vimtouch mailinglist into
/sdcard, which is the same location on a Nexus device).
To easily upload your configuration you can either attach your device
to your computer with USB as a Media device (MTP) (not a good option
on Ubuntu). Or you can use the Open Source FTP Server app [1] to start
an FTP server on your Nexus and use a program such as Filezilla on
your computer. Or another easy solution is to use DropSync [2] to sync
your config with Dropbox.

Some other tips:
* I keep my entire config inside the .vim folder, including my .vimrc
file (as 'vimrc' without a dot). This makes it easier to sync with
DropSync as I only have to sync a single folder.
Then I manually created a .vimrc file (in /storage/emulated/0) with
one line:
runtime vimrc
this will load the vimrc file from inside your .vim folder. (this
works on any Vim, not just on Android)

* To check if you are running on Android, for example for
Android-specific configuration, you can use the following check in
your .vimrc:
if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch'
" do some Android specific configuration here
endif

> I have a concern about android. When I went to download the
> hacker's keyboard I noticed that the permissions indicated that I
> would be giving pretty complete access to my entire system to
> anyone who wanted access to it. It even cautions "malicious apps
> may share contact data without your knowledge." I understand that
> this is standard for the android OS, and with few exceptions most
> apps. Perhaps I don't understand, but as I understand I find this
> disturbing.

If you install and use an alternative keyboard, Android will indeed
give you a rather scary warning. However it is not as bad as you
describe. First, it is only for that keyboard app. All apps which you
install have to request various permissions to be able to do stuff,
such as read your contacts. You can inspect those permissions when
installing the app (in the confirmation dialog on Google Play) or for
an already installed app through settings > apps & then tap an app to
open the details (permissions are at the bottom).
For a keyboard app, yes that will be able to read anything you type,
but if you think about it, that's only normal. You use that app to
enter text into the system, which is only possible if the app knows
what you want to type. The same concern can be made about hardware
keyboards. If you buy a real keyboard, you also have to trust the
manufacturer not to include some extra hardware to capture all your
text and send it somewhere (unless you open each keyboard and check
the internals? :) )

> Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated.
>

I hope this helps you get started on your Android adventure! Feel free
to mail more questions :)

[1]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImJlLnBwYXJlaXQuc3dpZnRwIl0.

[2]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxapps.dropsync&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS50dHhhcHBzLmRyb3BzeW5jIl0.

Jeroen

> Regards,
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA eew...@bellsouth.net
>
> "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change."
>
> - Kim
>
>
>
>

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[Eric Weir]

Thanks very much for the detailed response, Jeroen. It is very helpful.

On Apr 21, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> On 04/20/2013 04:56 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> Since the runtime extends the Vim Touch app, it doesn't show up as a
> separate app. To verify that it is installed, you can check in Google
> Play that it says 'installed', and also by launching Vim Touch and
> doing something like `:e ~/`. If this gives a filelisting in netrw,
> you have the runtime installed.

It appears to be installed. Although when I started Vim Touch the first time today I got an option to install the runtime package, I could not tell until just now that it was in fact installed.

Curious. Why doesn't 'E' work. When I try it Vim Touch crashes.

>> Also uncertain what I do to replicate---as near as possible; you
>> and others have indicated it should close to perfect---the Vim
>> installation on my MacBook.
> You simply upload your .vimrc-file and .vim-folder onto the device. On
> a Nexus device you should place the file & folder into
> /storage/emulated/0/ (or as mentioned in the vimtouch mailinglist into
> /sdcard, which is the same location on a Nexus device).
> To easily upload your configuration you can either attach your device
> to your computer with USB as a Media device (MTP) (not a good option
> on Ubuntu). Or you can use the Open Source FTP Server app [1] to start
> an FTP server on your Nexus and use a program such as Filezilla on
> your computer. Or another easy solution is to use DropSync [2] to sync
> your config with Dropbox.

I've found a file manager app---FolderSync---that looks like I can use it to move files to/from folders synced through SugarSync, Dropbox and numerous other syncing services.

> Some other tips:
> * I keep my entire config inside the .vim folder, including my .vimrc
> file (as 'vimrc' without a dot). This makes it easier to sync with
> DropSync as I only have to sync a single folder.
> Then I manually created a .vimrc file (in /storage/emulated/0) with
> one line:
> runtime vimrc
> this will load the vimrc file from inside your .vim folder. (this
> works on any Vim, not just on Android)

I'll keep this in mind.

Above you say files should go into "/storage/emulated/0/" and in "/storage/emulated/0". Which is it.

> * To check if you are running on Android, for example for
> Android-specific configuration, you can use the following check in
> your .vimrc:
> if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch'
> " do some Android specific configuration here
> endif

I don't understand this.

>> I have a concern about android. When I went to download the
>> hacker's keyboard I noticed that the permissions indicated that I
>> would be giving pretty complete access to my entire system to
>> anyone who wanted access to it. It even cautions "malicious apps
>> may share contact data without your knowledge." I understand that
>> this is standard for the android OS, and with few exceptions most
>> apps. Perhaps I don't understand, but as I understand I find this
>> disturbing.
>
> If you install and use an alternative keyboard, Android will indeed
> give you a rather scary warning. However it is not as bad as you
> describe. First, it is only for that keyboard app. All apps which you
> install have to request various permissions to be able to do stuff,
> such as read your contacts. You can inspect those permissions when
> installing the app (in the confirmation dialog on Google Play) or for
> an already installed app through settings > apps & then tap an app to
> open the details (permissions are at the bottom).

Thanks for this. It's reassuring. It wasn't that I didn't trust the hacker's keyboard developer, but the explanation of the permissions made it sound like in installing the keyboard I would be giving access to my contacts, etc., etc., etc. to everybody under the sun.

> For a keyboard app, yes that will be able to read anything you type,
> but if you think about it, that's only normal. You use that app to
> enter text into the system, which is only possible if the app knows
> what you want to type. The same concern can be made about hardware
> keyboards. If you buy a real keyboard, you also have to trust the
> manufacturer not to include some extra hardware to capture all your
> text and send it somewhere (unless you open each keyboard and check
> the internals? :) )
>
>> Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I hope this helps you get started on your Android adventure! Feel free
> to mail more questions :)

It helps *a lot*! And I appreciate it very much. The offer of future help, too. I'm sure there will be more questions.

I'm kinda surprised at how little I know my way around Vim Touch. I assumed that my level of comfort with regular Vim would carry over to getting Vim Touch set up. In fact it seems like a completely different app at this point.

> [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.ppareit.swiftp&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImJlLnBwYXJlaXQuc3dpZnRwIl0.
>
> [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxapps.dropsync&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS50dHhhcHBzLmRyb3BzeW5jIl0.

I'll keep these in mind, but I think---I hope!---FolderSync will take care of syncing and file management needs.

I'm looking forward to getting Vim back. It feels like it's going to take a while to get to the level of comfort that I'm sued to with regular Vim.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"You keep on learning and learning, and pretty soon
you learn something no one has learned before."

- Richard Feynman

[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 04/21/2013 10:02 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>> Since the runtime extends the Vim Touch app, it doesn't show up
>> as a separate app. To verify that it is installed, you can check
>> in Google Play that it says 'installed', and also by launching
>> Vim Touch and doing something like `:e ~/`. If this gives a
>> filelisting in netrw, you have the runtime installed.
>
> It appears to be installed. Although when I started Vim Touch the
> first time today I got an option to install the runtime package, I
> could not tell until just now that it was in fact installed.
>
> Curious. Why doesn't 'E' work. When I try it Vim Touch crashes.
>

I also noticed this, and reported this on the mailinglist. I don't
think the cause of this bug was already found. However you can use
`:e` followed by the foldername instead, so it is only a small issue.

>>> Also uncertain what I do to replicate---as near as possible;
>>> you and others have indicated it should close to perfect---the
>>> Vim installation on my MacBook.
>> You simply upload your .vimrc-file and .vim-folder onto the
>> device. On a Nexus device you should place the file & folder into
>> /storage/emulated/0/ (or as mentioned in the vimtouch
>> mailinglist into /sdcard, which is the same location on a Nexus
>> device). To easily upload your configuration you can either
>> attach your device to your computer with USB as a Media device
>> (MTP) (not a good option on Ubuntu). Or you can use the Open
>> Source FTP Server app [1] to start an FTP server on your Nexus
>> and use a program such as Filezilla on your computer. Or another
>> easy solution is to use DropSync [2] to sync your config with
>> Dropbox.
>
> I've found a file manager app---FolderSync---that looks like I can
> use it to move files to/from folders synced through SugarSync,
> Dropbox and numerous other syncing services.
>

I also tried that one, beforing trying Dropsync, but I couldn't get it
to work for Dropbox while Dropsync works perfectly (but only for Dropbox)

>> Some other tips: * I keep my entire config inside the .vim
>> folder, including my .vimrc file (as 'vimrc' without a dot). This
>> makes it easier to sync with DropSync as I only have to sync a
>> single folder. Then I manually created a .vimrc file (in
>> /storage/emulated/0) with one line: runtime vimrc this will load
>> the vimrc file from inside your .vim folder. (this works on any
>> Vim, not just on Android)
>
> I'll keep this in mind.
>
> Above you say files should go into "/storage/emulated/0/" and in
> "/storage/emulated/0". Which is it.

/storage/emulated/0/ (the last part, 0, is a directory, so it will
also work if you leave off the last slash as Android will see that '0'
is a directory (as would Linux, Windows & Mac OS in such a case))

BTW: If you have multiple users on your tablet (Android 4.2 supports
this), it will be /storage/emulated/10/ and so on for other users. And
/sdcard/ will always point to the /storage/emulated/XX/ directory of
the user who is currently using the tablet.

>> * To check if you are running on Android, for example for
>> Android-specific configuration, you can use the following check
>> in your .vimrc: if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch' " do some Android specific
>> configuration here endif
>
> I don't understand this.

For example: I prefer the molokai colorscheme. Suppose that I would
want to use the desert colorscheme on Android, I would add the
following to my vimrc:
if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch'
colorscheme desert
else
colorscheme molokai
endif

Then this configuration would work both on my regular Vim and on Vim
touch, but in Vim I would have molokai and in vim touch I would have
desert.

> I'm kinda surprised at how little I know my way around Vim Touch.
> I assumed that my level of comfort with regular Vim would carry
> over to getting Vim Touch set up. In fact it seems like a
> completely different app at this point.
>

When I first used Vim Touch it also felt like a completely different
application. That's why I was not very positive about it in my very
first mails about Vim on Android. However after getting used to it
you'll notice that it is indeed the full powered Vim, embedded in a very
nice Android package. Just like GVim can be seen as a graphical wrapper
around terminal Vim, Vim Touch can be seen as an Android wrapper around
terminal Vim.

Jeroen

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[Eric Weir]

Thanks again, Jeroen. I'm having to think about this as I proceed. And I'm proceeding slowly, in between other bits of work and play. See comments and queries below.

On Apr 21, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> On 04/21/2013 10:02 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
>> Curious. Why doesn't 'E' work. When I try it Vim Touch crashes.
>
> I also noticed this, and reported this on the mailinglist. I don't
> think the cause of this bug was already found. However you can use
> `:e` followed by the foldername instead, so it is only a small issue.

I think I recall discussion of this on the vim touch google group. Is it in the works to be fixed?

>> I've found a file manager app---FolderSync---that looks like I can
>> use it to move files to/from folders synced through SugarSync,
>> Dropbox and numerous other syncing services.
>
> I also tried that one, beforing trying Dropsync, but I couldn't get it
> to work for Dropbox while Dropsync works perfectly (but only for Dropbox)

It seems to be working for me. I didn't have to manually move my .vim folder to the tablet. I set up syncing through sugarsync on foldersync, then synced the folder.

>>> Some other tips: * I keep my entire config inside the .vim
>>> folder, including my .vimrc file (as 'vimrc' without a dot). This
>>> makes it easier to sync with DropSync as I only have to sync a
>>> single folder. Then I manually created a .vimrc file (in
>>> /storage/emulated/0) with one line: runtime vimrc this will load
>>> the vimrc file from inside your .vim folder. (this works on any
>>> Vim, not just on Android)
>>
>> I'll keep this in mind.

I think I'm going to have only one conflict between the .vimrc for the laptop and the tablet. That's that the location of the files created with one of my plugins will be in different locations on the two tablets and that gets specified in the .vimrc. On the laptop they are in a folder in the ~/documents folder. On the tablet they will be in---at least at this point this is what I imagine---they'll be in a folder in /storage/emulated/0/.

>>> * To check if you are running on Android, for example for
>>> Android-specific configuration, you can use the following check
>>> in your .vimrc: if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch' " do some Android specific
>>> configuration here endif
>>
>> I don't understand this.
>
> For example: I prefer the molokai colorscheme. Suppose that I would
> want to use the desert colorscheme on Android, I would add the
> following to my vimrc:
> if $VIM =~ 'vimtouch'
> colorscheme desert
> else
> colorscheme molokai
> endif
>
> Then this configuration would work both on my regular Vim and on Vim
> touch, but in Vim I would have molokai and in vim touch I would have
> desert.

One thought is to put my .vimrc as vimrc in /vim, as you suggest, and handle the conflict regarding the location of the folder mentioned above in the .vimrc the way you suggest here. But on second thought I'm thinking of not syncing the .vimrcs, just having separate .vimrcs for macvim and vim touch. Of course I will have to figure out how to backup the .vimrc on the tablet, but that shouldn't be a problem. What do you think?

>> I'm kinda surprised at how little I know my way around Vim Touch.
>> I assumed that my level of comfort with regular Vim would carry
>> over to getting Vim Touch set up. In fact it seems like a
>> completely different app at this point.
>
> When I first used Vim Touch it also felt like a completely different
> application. That's why I was not very positive about it in my very
> first mails about Vim on Android. However after getting used to it
> you'll notice that it is indeed the full powered Vim, embedded in a very

> nice Android package....

Glad to hear that I'm not alone in my initial impressions, and that I can indeed expect it to start feeling like vim again in time.

With a little more experience with the tablet under my belt I am still thinking about returning the Nexus 7---I have 14 days from date of purchase to do so---and exchanging it for a nexus 7. While I'm impressed with the android apps I've found, I see myself continuing to do everything but run vim on the ipad. Again, what do you think?

Keep in mind that I'm using the soft keyboard. [I've installed the hacker's keyboard and really like it.] In portrait mode on the nexus 10 they keys are pretty small. In landscape they're a bit large and far apart. I'm guessing in landscape on the nexus 7 they should be about right.

I know Google is supposed to have an upgraded nexus 10 coming out sometime in the next few months, but I vaguely recall something about a new nexus 7 fairly soon. Do you know anything about that?

Thanks again for the explanations and suggestions.

Sincerely,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir

"You will be needed in the movement when you
realize that you are not needed in the movement."

- Chris Crass

[Eric Weir]

On Apr 22, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

> on the two tablets

Shoulda been "on the laptop and the tablet."

[Jeroen Budts]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 04/22/2013 03:55 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> I think I recall discussion of this on the vim touch google group.
> Is it in the works to be fixed?

I have no idea about this. Given that you can also use the ':e'-command
to open netrw I think it has very low priority.

> I think I'm going to have only one conflict between the .vimrc for
> the laptop and the tablet. That's that the location of the files
> created with one of my plugins will be in different locations on
> the two tablets and that gets specified in the .vimrc. On the
> laptop they are in a folder in the ~/documents folder. On the
> tablet they will be in---at least at this point this is what I
> imagine---they'll be in a folder in /storage/emulated/0/.

Maybe try creating a documents folder inside the /storage/emulated/0/
directory. I think from inside Vim Touch you will be able to refer to
that as ~/documents, so that your existing configuration works.

> One thought is to put my .vimrc as vimrc in /vim, as you suggest,
> and handle the conflict regarding the location of the folder
> mentioned above in the .vimrc the way you suggest here. But on
> second thought I'm thinking of not syncing the .vimrcs, just having
> separate .vimrcs for macvim and vim touch. Of course I will have to
> figure out how to backup the .vimrc on the tablet, but that
> shouldn't be a problem. What do you think?

That mostly depends on your personal preference and the length of your
.vimrc file. I try to keep only one .vimrc, but my vimrc is over 600
lines, so maintaining multiple copies would be a disaster. I do however
also maintain a 'mini-vimrc'-file with the (for me) bare minimum config,
which I use on my Raspberry Pi and on servers.

> With a little more experience with the tablet under my belt I am
> still thinking about returning the Nexus 7---I have 14 days from
> date of purchase to do so---and exchanging it for a nexus 7. While
> I'm impressed with the android apps I've found, I see myself
> continuing to do everything but run vim on the ipad. Again, what do
> you think?
>
> Keep in mind that I'm using the soft keyboard. [I've installed the
> hacker's keyboard and really like it.] In portrait mode on the
> nexus 10 they keys are pretty small. In landscape they're a bit
> large and far apart. I'm guessing in landscape on the nexus 7 they
> should be about right.

Again this is personal preference. Before the Nexus 7, I had a 10"
tablet (from Eken) because I suspected that a 7" would be to small. Now
that I have a 7", I actually prefer that because it is much more
convenient to take with me.
But on the Nexus 7 in landscape mode you only have a few lines available
for the content of your file as the keyboard fills up half the screen,
as you can see on this screenshot:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/576imukfgedxter/Screenshot_2013-04-23-22-20-44.png
(I have the font size set to 14pt in Vim Touch).
In portrait there is a lot more space, but the hackers keyboard becomes
really tiny. On my Nexus 4 (4.7") I use also use the hackers keyboard
for Vim Touch but there I use the compact qwerty layout for portrait
(it's somewhere in the settings of the keyboard).
To type more then a few words I prefer a hardware keyboard anyway as it
types better and gives me more room on the screen to see text.

> I know Google is supposed to have an upgraded nexus 10 coming out
> sometime in the next few months, but I vaguely recall something
> about a new nexus 7 fairly soon. Do you know anything about that?
>

I heard rumors about a Nexus 7.7. Google is doing their yearly event in
May (I think) so it is possible that they will announce new Nexus
devices then. But that's only speculation and there will always be newer
versions of devices. Buy an iPad 3 and next months Apple announces the
iPad mini-4-S-now-super-super-super-fast-with-free-steve-jobs-sticker :)

Jeroen
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[Eric Weir]

Thanks, Jeroen,

On Apr 23, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

> On 04/22/2013 03:55 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>
> Maybe try creating a documents folder inside the /storage/emulated/0/
> directory. I think from inside Vim Touch you will be able to refer to
> that as ~/documents, so that your existing configuration works.

Yes, it worked.

> That mostly depends on your personal preference and the length of your
> .vimrc file. I try to keep only one .vimrc, but my vimrc is over 600
> lines, so maintaining multiple copies would be a disaster. I do however
> also maintain a 'mini-vimrc'-file with the (for me) bare minimum config,
> which I use on my Raspberry Pi and on servers.

Ah, you have a Raspberry Pi. You seem to go in for minatures. Except in .vimrcs. Mine is a lot shorter.

>> With a little more experience with the tablet under my belt I am
>> still thinking about returning the Nexus 7---I have 14 days from
>> date of purchase to do so---and exchanging it for a nexus 7. While
>> I'm impressed with the android apps I've found, I see myself
>> continuing to do everything but run vim on the ipad. Again, what do
>> you think?
>

> Again this is personal preference. Before the Nexus 7, I had a 10"
> tablet (from Eken) because I suspected that a 7" would be to small. Now
> that I have a 7", I actually prefer that because it is much more
> convenient to take with me.
> But on the Nexus 7 in landscape mode you only have a few lines available
> for the content of your file as the keyboard fills up half the screen,
> as you can see on this screenshot:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/576imukfgedxter/Screenshot_2013-04-23-22-20-44.png
> (I have the font size set to 14pt in Vim Touch).
> In portrait there is a lot more space, but the hackers keyboard becomes
> really tiny. On my Nexus 4 (4.7") I use also use the hackers keyboard
> for Vim Touch but there I use the compact qwerty layout for portrait
> (it's somewhere in the settings of the keyboard).

I'm gonna give it a shot on the 7. My vim window on my macbook is pretty small. About 11 X 11 cm. If I can get Vim Touch running satisfactorily and find the 7 too small, I'll get myself another 10.

Didn't know about the compact qwerty layout.

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Everywhere the crisis of the private financial system
has been transformed into a tale of slovenly and overweening government
that perpetuates and is perpetuated by a dependent and demanding population."

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