Where is Bram?

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi all,

I haven't seen any emails from Bram to the mailing list for more than a month.
Is he on vacation? Has anyone had any contact with him in the last month?

Regards,
Yegappan

[tooth pik]

i've been wondering the same thing -- my guess was he's in africa again

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[Maxim Kim]

https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4

RIP Bram.

[Nazri Ramliy]

Really sad news. 

I admire his dedication to Vim, spending decades of his life improving it, and his charity work. 

Unquestionably his work benefited and improved a lot of people’s lives.

RIP Bram!

Nazri

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/vim_dev/5a13bf47-b642-4224-b40b-41a454cff433n%40googlegroups.com.

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 5:53 AM Maxim Kim <hab...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4
>

I am truly saddened and shocked to hear this news.

I have been following him for more than 25 years and have interacted
with him for more than 22 years. He has been an inspiration to me and
many others. He has really changed the world for the better. He has
single handedly improved the productivity of countless developers and
companies around the world. He dedicated his entire life to work on
Vim. His vision and ability to design some of the most complex features
(such as the vim9script compiler, spell check, syntax highlighting,
channels, tab pages, virtual text, and many others) have always amazed
me.

We will all miss him deeply. Rest In Peace, Bram, and thank you for
everything.

- Yegappan

[Christian Brabandt]

Am 2023-08-05 16:30, schrieb Yegappan Lakshmanan:
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 5:53 AM Maxim Kim <hab...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4
>>
>
> I am truly saddened and shocked to hear this news.
>
> I have been following him for more than 25 years and have interacted
> with him for more than 22 years. He has been an inspiration to me and
> many others. He has really changed the world for the better. He has
> single handedly improved the productivity of countless developers and
> companies around the world. He dedicated his entire life to work on
> Vim. His vision and ability to design some of the most complex
> features
> (such as the vim9script compiler, spell check, syntax highlighting,
> channels, tab pages, virtual text, and many others) have always amazed
> me.
>
> We will all miss him deeply. Rest In Peace, Bram, and thank you for
> everything.

As all of you, so was I deeply shocked when I heard the news. Bram was a
great leader
to the Vim community and I really enjoyed working with him over the past
years, since I became
involved with the development of Vim almost 20 years ago.

Bram was of great inspiration in creating a great community, helping
people with his charity and
he was a great mentor. And now he left too soon. We lost a great leader
and I regret never having
met him in person...

However to all of the community: I will continue and I hope all of the
other contributors will
also keep up the good work. I do have access to the Vim homepage and the
Vim organization (not sure
if all the rights, but I am sure we will work on the details in the near
future.

Once I return from vacation, I'll go through the PRs and review them
(and also commit the missing
patch to github). I'll welcome anybody to contribute to make Vim better.

I still don't know all the internals of the various areas (vim9, virtual
text, syntax highlighting to name
a few) and I don't know how much time I can dedicate, but I hope
together we will be able to continue
successfully.


Thanks,
Chris

[Dominique Pellé]

I am very sad to read the news about Bram today:
https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4

My condolences to his family.

I did not hear anything from Bram in the last month, which
was unusual, but I assumed he was on holidays. I never met
Bram unfortunately, but we exchanged many emails or messages
in vimdev over the last twenty years. All kinds of memories
of interactions with Bram come back to me now. Bram struck me
as a talented developer, extremely dedicated to his project,
obstinate even (in a good way) and just a good person with
his charity contributions in particular. His work had a
profound impact on so many people. He had a great vision for
Vim, knowing what contributions to accept or reject, so Vim
remained true to the spirit of the original Vi. Thanks to Bram,
Vim is a masterpiece of software, an endless treasure trove
of features to discover even after having used it for many
years with an exemplary detailed documentation. Vim has
fascinated me since I started to use it in 1997. It has
shaped my developer's career. I tried to contribute back to
Vim to the extent that I could. Bram will be missed. Let's
hope that his Vim project continues to live and evolve
alongside with neovim.

Bedankt Bram voor alles wat je deed. Rust in vrede.

Dominique

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi,

Yes. I will continue to contribute to Vim. Let me know how I can help.

Regards,
Yegappan

[Ron Aaron]

Yes, RIP Bram -- you were an inspiration as well as being a "mensch". You'll be sorely missed.

[Ken Takata]

I am really sad to hear this news.

Currently, only three members have the commit access to the Vim repository,
but no one has the admin privileges of the Vim organization.

I'm going to ask GitHub support to request the admin privileges for the three members.

I also think that it would be better to enable GitHub Discussions in the Vim repository.

At least, the following two issues should be moved to Discussions:

https://github.com/vim/vim/issues/12728

https://github.com/vim/vim/issues/12730

The problem might be that they are not redirected to the vim_dev mailing list.

What do you think?

Regards,

Ken Takata

2023年8月6日日曜日 1:11:39 UTC+9 Christian Brabandt:

[Christian Brabandt]

Ken,
Please go ahead with enabling discussions and requesting admin rights. They may or may not be redirected, don't know yet, we will see.

Thanks
Chris

Am 06.08.2023 um 08:39 schrieb Ken Takata <ktakat...@gmail.com>:



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[mattn]

Chris, Ken. Thanks for working about this.

I would like to help you guys and Vim in the future.

- mattn

2023年8月6日日曜日 17:21:42 UTC+9 Christian Brabandt:

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

RIP Bram. This is very sad news.

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023, Maxim Kim wrote:

> https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4
>
> RIP Bram.
>

> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 8:18:33?PM UTC+10 tooth pik wrote:
>
>> i've been wondering the same thing -- my guess was he's in africa again
>>

>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 12:34?AM Yegappan Lakshmanan <yega...@gmail.com>

>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any emails from Bram to the mailing list for more than a
>>> month.
>>> Is he on vacation? Has anyone had any contact with him in the last month?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yegappan
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>
>

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee

[Doug Kearns]

In Sat, 5 Aug 2023 at 22:53, Maxim Kim <hab...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://groups.google.com/g/vim_announce/c/tWahca9zkt4

It is with deep sadness that I receive this news.

There is no one in our field that I have more respect for and I'm grateful I was able to express that sentiment to him not long ago.

Adopting his "son" will be no small task for the community.  He will be greatly missed.

Regards,
Doug

[Zoltan Arpadffy]

This is truly shocking - I do not have a word.

I just sent Bram a mail about a week ago - with no answer - when he replied mails almost immediately in the past 20+ years.

I am so sad.

My deepest condolences to the family.

I have been in contact with Bram since 1998 - when I started to work on the OpenVMS port and I am still maintaining the OpenVMS related code and distributing the VMS executable packages on  http://polarhome.com/vim/ 

I am working on the the patch for Vim 9.0 and for the new x86_64 VMS port (beside VAX, AXP and IA64) 

I have had sent him my patches directly that he merged into the releases.

Ken, Chris could you please instruct me, how can I continue to contribute to the Vim development? 

Thanks,

Z

[Dominique Pellé]

Zoltan Arpadffy wrote:

> This is truly shocking - I do not have a word.
> I just sent Bram a mail about a week ago - with no answer - when he
> replied mails almost immediately in the past 20+ years.
>
> I am so sad.
> My deepest condolences to the family.
>
> I have been in contact with Bram since 1998 - when I started to work
> on the OpenVMS port and I am still maintaining the OpenVMS related
> code and distributing the VMS executable packages on
> http://polarhome.com/vim/
>
> I am working on the the patch for Vim 9.0 and for the new x86_64 VMS
> port (beside VAX, AXP and IA64)
> I have had sent him my patches directly that he merged into the

> eleases.

>
> Ken, Chris could you please instruct me, how can I continue to
> contribute > to the Vim development?

We're all shocked and feel empty with the loss of Bram.

Thanks Zoltan for your contributions to Vim since 1998. That's
amazing dedication. For now, I suggest to either send patch
attachments to this mailing list, or better if you can, to submit
git pull requests. A PR is preferable as CI will run and it makes
it easier for people to review contributions. Code reviews were
always important, but they have become even more important
now the gate-keeper Bram is no longer here.

I assume it will take some time before we figure out how to
merge changes to the master branch. So PR may stay
open for a while. Let's be patient.

I will also try to contribute, as much as I can. I fear that some
of the Vim internals are hard to maintain without Bram.
I hope the community will step up to the challenge and honor
Bram's project by continuing its development.

Even if I have a personal preference for Vim rather than Neovim
for various reasons (no need to go into details as to why here),
it's clear that Neovim showed that the community was able to
make impressive deep changes to Vim's code. Neovim still
depended on Vim and Bram's work to some extent (regularly
merging Vim patches). And Neovim was standing on the
shoulders of giants by reusing Vim's code. So I hope that
some of the Neovim developers can also help continuing
the Vim development adventure.

Regards
Dominique

[Antonio Giovanni Colombo]

Hi everybody,

I too will miss Bram a lot.

I am a minor contributor to Vim, for the translation of messages. I have been in touch with Bram since the Nineties, and even visited him in Venlo.

I used to send new versions of language related files, like e.g. "src/po/it.po" directly to Bram, who included them in the Vim distribution without the need of patches. Pending further decisions, I will send future modifications of such files to Christian Brabandt. This is not only about me, but about a group of other translators. Bram sometimes sent mail to this group, just before a new version of Vim was in sight.

VALE, Bram! We will try to keep up the good work.

Antonio

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[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi,

Can someone with the admin access to https://www.vim.org/ update the
"News" section with a
link to the message from Bram's family?

Regards,
Yegappan

[Christian Brabandt]

Am 2023-08-07 16:20, schrieb Yegappan Lakshmanan:
> Hi,
>
> Can someone with the admin access to https://www.vim.org/ update the
> "News" section with a
> link to the message from Bram's family?

Yes, it is on my agenad, once I return from vacation. I don't have
currently SSH access on my vacation place (only HTTPs unfortunately).


Thanks,
Chris

[Christian Brabandt]

Am 2023-08-07 16:13, schrieb Antonio Giovanni Colombo:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I too will miss Bram a lot.
>
> I am a minor contributor to Vim, for the translation of messages. I
> have been in touch with Bram since the Nineties, and even visited him
> in Venlo.
>
> I used to send new versions of language related files, like e.g.
> "src/po/it.po" directly to Bram, who included them in the Vim
> distribution without the need of patches. Pending further decisions, I
> will send future modifications of such files to Christian Brabandt.
> This is not only about me, but about a group of other translators.
> Bram sometimes sent mail to this group, just before a new version of
> Vim was in sight.
>
> VALE, Bram! We will try to keep up the good work.

Antonio,
please either send them to the vim-dev google group, or create a pull
request,
or you may as well send it to me and I'll commit it then. But the last
method
may add some delays, if I am away (like currently :()

Thanks,

[Christian Brabandt]

Hi all,
thanks for all this. As Dominique mentioned, please send future
contributions (in the order of my preference):
- create a PR in the Vim github repo
- Send patches (or full files) to the vim-dev mailinglist
- continue sending the files to me (I'll handle it as Bram did)

I appreciate all your help suggestions.

Thanks,
Chris

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi all,

I am listing the tasks that Bram used to do for developing and maintaining
Vim below (as far I can remember):

1. Developing fixes for Vim crash reports including the analysis of
fuzzy test files.
2. Addressing reported security vulnerabilities including those reported
in https://huntr.dev/repos/vim/vim. I think various Linux
distribution maintainers report these issues directly to Bram.
3. Fixing Coverity warnings reported in
https://scan.coverity.com/projects/vim
4. Fixing CI build breakages including ASAN errors.
5. Create patches based on pull requests from Vim contributors
(including updating the patches to match the Vim coding style and
perform minor refactoring).
6. Developing major new features (e.g. Vim9 script, virtual text, etc.)
7. Reproducing the reported issues and developing fixes for those
issues.
8. Improving the test infrastructure. For example, he recently
incorporated coding style checks and the support for syntax
highlighting checks.
9. Incorporating the runtime file updates (e.g. syntax files, file
types, etc.)
10. Updating the Vim documentation based on discussions and pull
requests.
11. Maintaining the todo.txt file to track the roadmap for features and
fixes.
12. Responding to questions and discussions in the Vim-dev mailing list.
13. Updating the vim.org website with news.
14. Preparing and making Vim releases (maybe once a year).

Regards,
Yegappan

[Dominique Pellé]

Thanks Yegappan for this list.

About point #2 i.e. "Addressing reported security

vulnerabilities including those reported in https://huntr.dev/repos/vim/vim"

I never looked at this, as I thought only Bram had
access to bug reported there for security reasons.
But if I can have access (?) I would be interested in:
- minimizing crash fuzzing POC
- and attempting to fix them

About point #9 i.e. "Incorporating the runtime file updates"
I've always found it odd that some changes were split into
a commit in src and another commit later in runtime. It
often caused confusion, with PR author asking "part of
my change was not included?!" and the response being
"it will be in the next runtime update". Perhaps that's
something worth revisiting?

In fact, this happened to my last PR at
https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/12544/files
where only part of it was merged and the
remaining part was meant to be in the next
runtime update, which sadly never happened.
I'll create a PR when I have time for what went
missing.

There might also be other unrelated changes
which were pending in the next runtime update
that never happened. Often Bram responded
with "I'll include it" when people reported
corrections to the docs for example.

Regards
Dominique

[Doug Kearns]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 at 06:12, Dominique Pellé <dominiq...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

About point #9 i.e. "Incorporating the runtime file updates"
I've always found it odd that some changes were split into
a commit in src and another commit later in runtime. It
often caused confusion, with PR author asking "part of
my change was not included?!" and the response being
"it will be in the next runtime update". Perhaps that's
something worth revisiting?

I assume you're aware of how it worked but for others, user-maintained runtime file additions and updates didn't receive a patch number and were batched in a periodic "Update runtime files" commit.  However, any related changes to the core runtime like filetype detection were committed separately with priority as these did receive a patch number.

I discussed this with Bram a couple of times over the years and the distinction was intentional.  I don't have a strong view on it but I agree that it's quite confusing for new and casual contributors.

<snip>

There might also be other unrelated changes
which were pending in the next runtime update
that never happened. Often Bram responded
with "I'll include it" when people reported
corrections to the docs for example.

It seems that there hasn't been an update of the user maintained runtime files since June 11[1] so there's likely to be a significant number of submissions that have been dropped.  For example, Bram didn't respond to my last emailed update on July 6.  Perhaps we should make a request for these to be resubmitted by PR at some stage.

Regards,

Doug

1. https://github.com/vim/vim/commit/10e8ff9b26078994cae57c2422b145d37aaf714e

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi,

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 8:18 AM Doug Kearns <dougk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 at 06:12, Dominique Pellé <dominiq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> About point #9 i.e. "Incorporating the runtime file updates"
>> I've always found it odd that some changes were split into
>> a commit in src and another commit later in runtime. It
>> often caused confusion, with PR author asking "part of
>> my change was not included?!" and the response being
>> "it will be in the next runtime update". Perhaps that's
>> something worth revisiting?
>
>
> I assume you're aware of how it worked but for others, user-maintained
> runtime file additions and updates didn't receive a patch number and
> were batched in a periodic "Update runtime files" commit. However,
> any related changes to the core runtime like filetype detection were
> committed separately with priority as these did receive a patch
> number.
>
> I discussed this with Bram a couple of times over the years and the
> distinction was intentional. I don't have a strong view on it but I
> agree that it's quite confusing for new and casual contributors.
>

I think Bram followed this approach to minimize the number of commits with
small changes to the runtime files. This was the model followed before the
Vim source moved to github.

I think we can move to the PR model for runtime file changes to attribute
the changes to the proper author and to encourage more participation.
This is one of the points that was frequently brought up in the past in many
forums.

> <snip>
>
>> There might also be other unrelated changes
>> which were pending in the next runtime update
>> that never happened. Often Bram responded
>> with "I'll include it" when people reported
>> corrections to the docs for example.
>
>
> It seems that there hasn't been an update of the user maintained
> runtime files since June 11[1] so there's likely to be a significant
> number of submissions that have been dropped. For example, Bram
> didn't respond to my last emailed update on July 6. Perhaps we should
> make a request for these to be resubmitted by PR at some stage.
>

Yes. Also, there are references in the todo.txt file about many
patches sent directly
to Bram in the past. All these patches are lost now.

Regards,
Yegappan

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi Dominique,

I am able to view all the reports and the discussions. Are you able
to view them?

>
> About point #9 i.e. "Incorporating the runtime file updates"
> I've always found it odd that some changes were split into
> a commit in src and another commit later in runtime. It
> often caused confusion, with PR author asking "part of
> my change was not included?!" and the response being
> "it will be in the next runtime update". Perhaps that's
> something worth revisiting?
>

Yes. I think we should move the PR model for the runtime file updates.

Regards,
Yegappan

[Christian Brabandt]

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote:

> Yes. I think we should move the PR model for the runtime file updates.

Yes, we should go ahead with this mode as of now. I am not sure, if this
will however cause problems with e.g. the vim-win32-installer
repository, if there are many changes without a proper minor patch
number at the same time. But I think this should be fixed over there.

Best,
Christian
--
Am besten, Du kaufst Dir einen Strick und erschießt Dich, wo das Wasser am
tiefsten ist.

[Christian Brabandt]

On Mo, 07 Aug 2023, Christian Brabandt wrote:

> Yes, it is on my agenad, once I return from vacation. I don't have currently
> SSH access on my vacation place (only HTTPs unfortunately).

After fighting with mysql for a while, this should be done now:
https://www.vim.org/news/news.php sharing here:

,----
| [2023-08-09] The Vim project is deeply shocked and sad by the sudden
| passing of Bram. We certainly will miss him, his guidance and his
| humour.
|
| The Vim project wouldn't exist without his ongoing passion to lead and
| develop Vim and the community for more than 30 years.
|
| Our deepest condolences to all his family and may they have enough
| strengths to come through these sad times. We lost a great guy way too
| early, who should have had the chance to enjoy and live for at least
| several more years!
|
| In addition he was well-known for collecting donations for the ICCF
| foundation and helping many children in Uganda. And despite the sad
| news, during the last 7 days an incredible amount of EURO 60,000 was
| donated. That is so awesome. Thank you all contributors!
|
| An incredible amount of people have been giving respect and saying
| goodby at here and you'll find obituary articles and links here.
|
| It is in Brams interest to continue the Vim project even if development
| now will slow down, but hopefully the community is being able to step up
| and continue the work in the next years. (Christian Brabandt)
`----

Also I have been told (and mentioned above), that in the past 7 days
ICCF has received € 60,000 which is quite amazing!

Best,
Christian
--
Ein Narr ist nie so lächerlich, als man ihn macht.
-- Jean Paul

[Christian Brabandt]

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote:

>

> Yes. Also, there are references in the todo.txt file about many
> patches sent directly
> to Bram in the past. All these patches are lost now.

Yes + Brams check scripts, to verify there were no obvious errors in the
provided runtime files. Oh well...

I'll probably send out a reminder to all known Maintainers to resend any
updates soon.

Best,
Christian
--
Eines Tages werden Maschinen vielleicht denken, aber sie werden
niemals Phantasie haben.
-- Theodor Heuss

[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi,

I am not suggesting a separate minor release for each runtime file update here.
Otherwise, we will have too many minor releases. Can we make a minor release
only for PRs that change the C code and not the runtime files (still
merge the runtime
changes as separate PRs)?

[Marvin Renich]

* Christian Brabandt <cbl...@256bit.org> [230808 12:37]:

>
> After fighting with mysql for a while, this should be done now:
> https://www.vim.org/news/news.php sharing here:

Christian, just a suggestion for a minor grammatical correction:

> ,----
> | [2023-08-09] The Vim project is deeply shocked and sad by the sudden

^ saddened

> | passing of Bram. We certainly will miss him, his guidance and his
> | humour.
> |
> | The Vim project wouldn't exist without his ongoing passion to lead and
> | develop Vim and the community for more than 30 years.
> |
> | Our deepest condolences to all his family and may they have enough
> | strengths to come through these sad times. We lost a great guy way too
> | early, who should have had the chance to enjoy and live for at least
> | several more years!
> |
> | In addition he was well-known for collecting donations for the ICCF
> | foundation and helping many children in Uganda. And despite the sad
> | news, during the last 7 days an incredible amount of EURO 60,000 was
> | donated. That is so awesome. Thank you all contributors!
> |
> | An incredible amount of people have been giving respect and saying
> | goodby at here and you'll find obituary articles and links here.
> |
> | It is in Brams interest to continue the Vim project even if development
> | now will slow down, but hopefully the community is being able to step up
> | and continue the work in the next years. (Christian Brabandt)
> `----

I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation to
Christian, Ken, Yegappan, and Dr. Chip for all the work they have done
in the past, and now in this very difficult time, for the work they are
doing to keep this project as strong as it was under Bram's care.

...Marvin

[Dominique Pellé]

Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote:

> > About point #2 i.e. "Addressing reported security
> > vulnerabilities including those reported in https://huntr.dev/repos/vim/vim"
> > I never looked at this, as I thought only Bram had
> > access to bug reported there for security reasons.
> > But if I can have access (?) I would be interested in:
> > - minimizing crash fuzzing POC
> > - and attempting to fix them
> >
>
> I am able to view all the reports and the discussions. Are you able
> to view them?

I can see some bugs at https://huntr.dev/repos/vim/vim/
but I have the impression that I only see those that are
fixed, which then become public. The most recent one
I see is from June 15, 2023. I'll look at this in more details
later.

Regards
Dominique

[Christian Brabandt]

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Marvin Renich wrote:

> Christian, just a suggestion for a minor grammatical correction:
>
> > ,----
> > | [2023-08-09] The Vim project is deeply shocked and sad by the sudden
> ^ saddened

Thanks, fixed.

> I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation to
> Christian, Ken, Yegappan, and Dr. Chip for all the work they have done
> in the past, and now in this very difficult time, for the work they are
> doing to keep this project as strong as it was under Bram's care.

Best,
Christian
--
Die Wissenschaft ist der Verstand der Welt, die Kunst ihre Seele.
-- Maxim Gorkij

[Christian Brabandt]

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Dominique Pellé wrote:

> I can see some bugs at https://huntr.dev/repos/vim/vim/
> but I have the impression that I only see those that are
> fixed, which then become public. The most recent one
> I see is from June 15, 2023. I'll look at this in more details
> later.

There are some bugs, that are not marked self-closed or not/applicable
(but rather medium or high). I believe, those are still open.

I think the hardest part will be to simplify and understand the provided
POC files.

Best,
Christian
--
Richter: "Angeklagter, wann arbeiten Sie eigentlich?"
"Dann und wann."
"Und was?"
"Dies und das."
"Und wo?"
"Hier und dort."
"Gut, Sie kommen ins Gefängnis."
"Und wann werde ich wieder entlassen?"
"Früher oder später."

[Christian Brabandt]

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote:

> I am not suggesting a separate minor release for each runtime file update here.
> Otherwise, we will have too many minor releases. Can we make a minor release
> only for PRs that change the C code and not the runtime files (still
> merge the runtime changes as separate PRs)?

Yes, that should be possible. We can merge runtime files directly,
without incrementing the minor patch number and only increment the minor
patch number for changes to the source (including diff, libvterm, xxd or
the test suite)

Best,
Christian
--
Es ist schwer, das Glück in uns zu finden, und es ist ganz unmöglich,
es anderswo zu finden.
-- Nicolas Sébastien de Chamfort

[Doug Kearns]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 at 03:56, Christian Brabandt <cbl...@256bit.org> wrote:

On Di, 08 Aug 2023, Yegappan Lakshmanan wrote:

> I am not suggesting a separate minor release for each runtime file update here.
> Otherwise, we will have too many minor releases.  Can we make a minor release
> only for PRs that change the C code and not the runtime files (still
> merge the runtime changes as separate PRs)?

Yes, that should be possible. We can merge runtime files directly,
without incrementing the minor patch number and only increment the minor
patch number for changes to the source (including diff, libvterm, xxd or
the test suite)

Runtime file updates often include test updates (e.g., filetype detection tests) and changes to runtime infrastructure (e.g., runtime/ftplugin.vim) are also arguably worth a version bump.

Bram's distinction here actually makes a lot of sense but may, I understand, not be tenable.

Regards,

Doug

[Christian Brabandt]

On Mi, 09 Aug 2023, Doug Kearns wrote:

> Runtime file updates often include test updates (e.g., filetype detection tests) and changes to runtime infrastructure (e.g., runtime/ftplugin.vim) are also arguably worth a version bump.
>
> Bram's distinction here actually makes a lot of sense but may, I understand, not be tenable.

Yes indeed. So https://github.com/vim/vim/issues/12722 shall increase the minor or not?

Best,
Christian
--
Das Glück des Genies: Wenn es zuzeiten des Ernstes geboren wird.
-- Goethe, Maximen und Reflektionen, Nr. 764

[Doug Kearns]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2023 at 04:52, Christian Brabandt <cbl...@256bit.org> wrote:

On Mi, 09 Aug 2023, Doug Kearns wrote:

> Runtime file updates often include test updates (e.g., filetype detection tests) and changes to runtime infrastructure (e.g., runtime/ftplugin.vim) are also arguably worth a version bump.
>
> Bram's distinction here actually makes a lot of sense but may, I understand, not be tenable.

Yes indeed. So https://github.com/vim/vim/issues/12722 shall increase the minor or not?

In an ideal world I think file type detection improvements like this should get a bump.  It feels like core functionality and is tested by the main test suite.

Regards,

Doug

[Robert Webb]

Wow, very sad to hear about Bram, and so young (62).  I did quite a lot of work on vim more than 30 years ago.  At first I didn't even have my own computer.  Sometimes I'd print out code at work, take it home, write new code on paper, then try it out after hours at uni or work.  Now I barely have time for my own projects.  I'm still on some vim mailing lists, but they forward to a folder I rarely look at.  Just noticed I have 34,439 unread messages in that folder!  So I only just heard about Bram.  He was always great to communicate with, and did such a great job with vim.  Many thanks to those who will carry on the flame.

Rob.

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[Yegappan Lakshmanan]

Hi Rob,

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 8:27 PM Robert Webb <rober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, very sad to hear about Bram, and so young (62). I did quite a lot of
> work on vim more than 30 years ago. At first I didn't even have my own
> computer. Sometimes I'd print out code at work, take it home, write new code
> on paper, then try it out after hours at uni or work. Now I barely have time
>

Thanks for your contributions to Vim. As a Vim user, I still remember eagerly
waiting for the release of the GUI version of Vim on MS-Windows back in 1997-98.

Regards,
Yegappan