We were wondering???
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A and J
Feb 12, 2012, 11:19:41 AM2/12/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
$o the way WE $ee it, we are out pretty much out over $50,000 from
what current and past board members
have been trying to ram thru and change at all cost$ ,, for the pure
and simple reason of personal
fits and fights.
No reason to $pend all that Money ...except that it's free for them
to spend.
I guess the attys have made out well off of us in these hard times,
but it seems insane to spend that when
at the same time we are behind $50K from owners that don't pay their
dues.
Thats like being maxed out on your credit cards and then deciding to
quit your job.
Who's going to pay for this? Who's going to foot the $100K of
expenses??
By their own 2010 declarations the board is responsible for making
decisions that
benefit the community and insure good property values.
Where?? What did we miss? Somewhere we missed that part.
All we have seen is the exact opposite from this bunch.... and the
ones before them, because there are directors/ officers that are
common denominators.
Instead of spending it on something positive and tangible over two
years, it's gone down the crapper.
All because of a handful of board directors that let egos go to their
heads, and insist on winning at all costs...
IF you call that winning.
When this is all done what will there be to show for it, regardless of
how it turns out???
Nothing...
Absolutely nothing, but they did it at the expense of 250 others, and
even more that have moved out, just-because-they-could.
We would be better off without a "governing" board altogether that
seems to operate solely on the buddy system every year.
Always fighting to see which 4 people can get on the board together
and control the entire community and spend money, and consistently
hand down rules and fines, just because they can... even though we
don't need anymore rules, the ones we have are plenty, albeit it seems
the 4 like to only enforce them against some and not others.
Why is the overwhelming topic month in and month out, ....dog
poop....and water...poop and water.??
No small wonder the meetings are scare of owner attendance.
When we get home from work we don't want to go listen to poop and
water.
The directors don't solve the issues like poop, they'd rather just
talk poop all the time.
Seems fitting somehow.
As long as they have a majority of 4.. to hell with what anyone else
thinks/ wants.
This isn't the first time we (A and J) have seen this.
It's always been that way.
We would be better off without an HOA governing body , altogether.
We remember when it was ..mmmm 2003? 2004? 2002?.. and the Treasurer
embezzeled something like $100K
??? can't recall the specifics, tho that Iwan guy was president at the
time I think.
We were trying to remember the last time the HOA board WASN'T
embroiled in something
...just ...because... they can.
I don't recall.
I don't recall an honest or earnest board, that wasn't under the gun
for one thing or another.
Thats what happens when a few power hungry board members, get their
friends on the board too,
and they all then turn on the community.
4 people...4 stubborn egotistical people...every time.
At least when the $100K was embezzled, we got some of it back.
What are we going to see for the $50K that the current magpies have
squandered out of stubbornness??
Nothing..
Nothing at all..
They just want to win.. wooo hoo! We won! we won!!
Tell me?... How's that working out for you?
Quit the madness, cut the losses, re-imburse Ms Fields , and do the
right thing for a change.
Step Down.
A and J
what current and past board members
have been trying to ram thru and change at all cost$ ,, for the pure
and simple reason of personal
fits and fights.
No reason to $pend all that Money ...except that it's free for them
to spend.
I guess the attys have made out well off of us in these hard times,
but it seems insane to spend that when
at the same time we are behind $50K from owners that don't pay their
dues.
Thats like being maxed out on your credit cards and then deciding to
quit your job.
Who's going to pay for this? Who's going to foot the $100K of
expenses??
By their own 2010 declarations the board is responsible for making
decisions that
benefit the community and insure good property values.
Where?? What did we miss? Somewhere we missed that part.
All we have seen is the exact opposite from this bunch.... and the
ones before them, because there are directors/ officers that are
common denominators.
Instead of spending it on something positive and tangible over two
years, it's gone down the crapper.
All because of a handful of board directors that let egos go to their
heads, and insist on winning at all costs...
IF you call that winning.
When this is all done what will there be to show for it, regardless of
how it turns out???
Nothing...
Absolutely nothing, but they did it at the expense of 250 others, and
even more that have moved out, just-because-they-could.
We would be better off without a "governing" board altogether that
seems to operate solely on the buddy system every year.
Always fighting to see which 4 people can get on the board together
and control the entire community and spend money, and consistently
hand down rules and fines, just because they can... even though we
don't need anymore rules, the ones we have are plenty, albeit it seems
the 4 like to only enforce them against some and not others.
Why is the overwhelming topic month in and month out, ....dog
poop....and water...poop and water.??
No small wonder the meetings are scare of owner attendance.
When we get home from work we don't want to go listen to poop and
water.
The directors don't solve the issues like poop, they'd rather just
talk poop all the time.
Seems fitting somehow.
As long as they have a majority of 4.. to hell with what anyone else
thinks/ wants.
This isn't the first time we (A and J) have seen this.
It's always been that way.
We would be better off without an HOA governing body , altogether.
We remember when it was ..mmmm 2003? 2004? 2002?.. and the Treasurer
embezzeled something like $100K
??? can't recall the specifics, tho that Iwan guy was president at the
time I think.
We were trying to remember the last time the HOA board WASN'T
embroiled in something
...just ...because... they can.
I don't recall.
I don't recall an honest or earnest board, that wasn't under the gun
for one thing or another.
Thats what happens when a few power hungry board members, get their
friends on the board too,
and they all then turn on the community.
4 people...4 stubborn egotistical people...every time.
At least when the $100K was embezzled, we got some of it back.
What are we going to see for the $50K that the current magpies have
squandered out of stubbornness??
Nothing..
Nothing at all..
They just want to win.. wooo hoo! We won! we won!!
Tell me?... How's that working out for you?
Quit the madness, cut the losses, re-imburse Ms Fields , and do the
right thing for a change.
Step Down.
A and J
Mark
Feb 12, 2012, 12:13:47 PM2/12/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
Hi A and J,
Welcome to the VictoriaVillage.net discussion groups. We hope
you stay around and stay in the conversation! I see your passion
about this and it is shared by a number of people here. I encourage
you to also share your thoughts with the Victoria Village Board
directly (and officially) as an owner and member of the association.
The only way to let our board members know what we want and don't want
done is to tell them. Tell them directly and in no uncertain terms.
Welcome to the VictoriaVillage.net discussion groups. We hope
you stay around and stay in the conversation! I see your passion
about this and it is shared by a number of people here. I encourage
you to also share your thoughts with the Victoria Village Board
directly (and officially) as an owner and member of the association.
The only way to let our board members know what we want and don't want
done is to tell them. Tell them directly and in no uncertain terms.
Marcia Fields
Feb 12, 2012, 3:40:51 PM2/12/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
To A and J.......
I can truly say I understand from my experience your obvious anger due
to frustration over the continuing and costly conflicts in our
association. But it needs to made clear here first that NO treasurer
EVER embezzled that approximately $112K back in 2004! It was the now-
convicted felon rotten property manager, Kurt Gunzinger, who
perpetrated that crime. He got away with it for a time because there
was NO effective accounting system in place, NO checks and balances at
that time (this conclusion from the court-ordered audit done by
Wyckoff & Assoc. after theft discovered)....it was negligence on part
of board at that time to keep serious track of the finances.
A lot of $$$$ has been spent on an unsuccessful effort to ratify that
revised Declaration by court order. And of course, the attorneys are
the "winners" in these kinds of struggles. However, with your
perception and vivid description of boards, past and present, did you
really want them to be given More Power via a generous "discretion"
throughout the document when there has already been so much abuse of
authority??? There were a number of us who did not want this to
happen along with some outrageous provisions to which we objected but
mainly to problems with legal requirements lacking in the petition
process. I agree with Mark to be sure and let the board know of your
frustrations and be specific. It's unclear if any of them tune in to
this forum which they should. It's not flattering but how else to
bring them to some sense of reality??
Further on the $$$$ issue, I stress again that the judge has not yet
ruled on my fees but should he award me all or some of those, in the
association's objection to such possible award, they want a hearing to
object!! More fight, more legal fees.
Board has agreed to a hearing on my disturbing questions about the
legitimacy of even initiating the petition process (more on that
later) and depending upon the satisfactory answers, or lack of, at
this hearing, you just may see some board resignations, A and J.
marcia ann
> > A and J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I can truly say I understand from my experience your obvious anger due
to frustration over the continuing and costly conflicts in our
association. But it needs to made clear here first that NO treasurer
EVER embezzled that approximately $112K back in 2004! It was the now-
convicted felon rotten property manager, Kurt Gunzinger, who
perpetrated that crime. He got away with it for a time because there
was NO effective accounting system in place, NO checks and balances at
that time (this conclusion from the court-ordered audit done by
Wyckoff & Assoc. after theft discovered)....it was negligence on part
of board at that time to keep serious track of the finances.
A lot of $$$$ has been spent on an unsuccessful effort to ratify that
revised Declaration by court order. And of course, the attorneys are
the "winners" in these kinds of struggles. However, with your
perception and vivid description of boards, past and present, did you
really want them to be given More Power via a generous "discretion"
throughout the document when there has already been so much abuse of
authority??? There were a number of us who did not want this to
happen along with some outrageous provisions to which we objected but
mainly to problems with legal requirements lacking in the petition
process. I agree with Mark to be sure and let the board know of your
frustrations and be specific. It's unclear if any of them tune in to
this forum which they should. It's not flattering but how else to
bring them to some sense of reality??
Further on the $$$$ issue, I stress again that the judge has not yet
ruled on my fees but should he award me all or some of those, in the
association's objection to such possible award, they want a hearing to
object!! More fight, more legal fees.
Board has agreed to a hearing on my disturbing questions about the
legitimacy of even initiating the petition process (more on that
later) and depending upon the satisfactory answers, or lack of, at
this hearing, you just may see some board resignations, A and J.
marcia ann
>
> - Show quoted text -
A and J
Feb 16, 2012, 10:10:31 AM2/16/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
" However, with your
perception and vivid description of boards, past and present, did you
really want them to be given More Power via a generous "discretion"
throughout the document when there has already been so much abuse of
authority???".. MFields
perception and vivid description of boards, past and present, did you
really want them to be given More Power via a generous "discretion"
throughout the document when there has already been so much abuse of
Absolutely not, Ms Fields, let us be clear on this, we are 100%
behind REMOVING the HOA board in it's entirety.
LESS power.
With as many as 3-4 officers and directors that
a) feel they aren't appreciated
b) feel they are over worked
c) don't want to be there , or their families/spouses feel it's a
drain on their time and mental faculties, and too much stress
d) often espouse all of the above and threaten to quit
e) frequently battle with the homeowners out of spite and stubbornness
f) focus their limited time and seemingly unlimited HOA funds on
ratifying documents that THEY deem absolutely necessary/crucial, if
only in their own minds
g) cover up indiscretions by other board members, thus if one is
culpable, all are culpable and should resign or be removed.
Changes should be on the horizon.
This is what happened when the $ was embezzled...the entire board
SHOULD HAVE resigned at that time, and I believe it was Frank
LaBosco(?) who at the time
declared so too, ...and said that , as a board member, something to
the effect of "We should be ashamed of ourselves".
I think he indeed did resign and urged the others to do so as well.
Someone please correct me if we are wrong, it's been some time now.
Not much has changed since then.
Staggered board terms just inhibits the laundry from being completely
free of germs.
Picking and choosing who will help advance THEIR agenda rather than
the welfare of Victoria Village.
If only 4 chums are needed to do the bidding of 1 or 2, that means the
other 3 are impotents.
Dedication to what the community WANTS, not what 1 or 2 directors
PERCEIVE the way it should be, is what the order of the day and
reminder at every
"legitimate" meeting should be.
Ms Fields we were not inferring that they should be unbridled, they
already ARE.
Why does a board need 7 members??... when only 1 or 2 tell the rest
how to think?
They spend more time fighting the very people (except their close
neighbors of course) that elect them, than they
do LISTENING,..... they forgot who put them there and for what
purpose.
Term limits, and the inability to hold office more than once should be
part of those declarations as well.
Any of them that cannot honestly look in the mirror and say they have
always , happily looked forward to working
with the community and always put the concerns of the community ahead
of other board members coercion ,....
should step down.
Any of them that refuse to be 100% transparent, and can honestly say
they have never participated in favors, or
secret meetings,....should step down.
Any of them who cannot admit that the $50K it has burdened this
community with, to force the ratification of those documents,
is not the sole responsibility of anyone but them, ...should step
down.
Blaming it after they are up to their necks on someone else, is just
plain disgusting, and they should step down and spend Tuesday nights
watching
ColdCase, NCIS or maybe The Biggest Loser with their families , and
put all the stress behind them.
A&J
Marcia Fields
Feb 17, 2012, 1:34:04 PM2/17/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
Hello A and J.....
Can only reply to you briefly since am preparing for my hearing with
the board next week and time is limited. If you obtain a copy of the
February 21, 2006 minutes, it contains a treasure trove of information
on subject you've raised. If you go into the association's website at
www.victoriavillageca.com then click on "Minutes". Will have to go
into "Archives" which will see at bottom, click on that and will
eventually come to "VV 02/06". Click on that and then print out
copy.
Can say here that Frank LoBosco did not resign; he served his full
term as treasurer from late 2005 when elected to 2008 when he decided
not to run for re-election.
What I do not have time to explain here is that the idea to sweep them
ALL out of office is simply not practical....not doable.....and not
fair in some cases for a variety of reasons.
marcia ann
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Can only reply to you briefly since am preparing for my hearing with
the board next week and time is limited. If you obtain a copy of the
February 21, 2006 minutes, it contains a treasure trove of information
on subject you've raised. If you go into the association's website at
www.victoriavillageca.com then click on "Minutes". Will have to go
into "Archives" which will see at bottom, click on that and will
eventually come to "VV 02/06". Click on that and then print out
copy.
Can say here that Frank LoBosco did not resign; he served his full
term as treasurer from late 2005 when elected to 2008 when he decided
not to run for re-election.
What I do not have time to explain here is that the idea to sweep them
ALL out of office is simply not practical....not doable.....and not
fair in some cases for a variety of reasons.
marcia ann
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
A&J 1373
Feb 17, 2012, 7:30:23 PM2/17/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
Thank you for the clarification Ms Fields, and my apologies to Mr
Lobasco, he didn't resign but he DID call for resignations,
referring to Feb-2006
He was referring to the board that was in place in 2005 when Iwan was
President, not Scott McNabb.(2006)
Feb 2006-Mr Lobasco............."D) Frank concluded this segment of
his report by stating that he felt prior Board
members that are still on the Board should be ashamed to remain."
At that point Mr Bieriechel had already said he would not seek the
presidency again to satisfy Ms.Fields
yet was still a director at large on the new board of Jan 2006
prompting
the new president Scott McNabb as president to ask in Feb 2006...."
Scott McNab told Iwan Bieriechel that Iwan should resign from the
Board because
of his lack of fulfilling his fiduciary duties while president of the
Board. Iwan maintained that he
had done nothing wrong."
You see?? THIS is what I meant when I posted previously and stated
And this is what I mean when I suggest term limitations, and also a
lifetime limit of one term or office.
It seems like the same buddies keep rotating offices.
In the SAME meeting of a fresh start in 2006 coming off an
exceptionally scandalous term, TWO officers called for resignations of
part or all of the board,....and none came about because none would
put the best interest of the ViIllage and the importance of trust and
transparency
before their own egos.
And it remains that way to this day.
That you for your efforts, Ms Fields, I would indeed like to know why
a "clean house" is not possible.
Another day and post please , when you have the time.
A & J
On Feb 17, 11:34 am, Marcia Fields <mar...@victoriavillage.net> wrote:
> Hello A and J.....
>
> Can only reply to you briefly since am preparing for my hearing with
> the board next week and time is limited. If you obtain a copy of the
> February 21, 2006 minutes, it contains a treasure trove of information
> on subject you've raised. If you go into the association's website atwww.victoriavillageca.comthen click on "Minutes". Will have to go
> ...
>
> read more »
Lobasco, he didn't resign but he DID call for resignations,
referring to Feb-2006
He was referring to the board that was in place in 2005 when Iwan was
President, not Scott McNabb.(2006)
Feb 2006-Mr Lobasco............."D) Frank concluded this segment of
his report by stating that he felt prior Board
members that are still on the Board should be ashamed to remain."
At that point Mr Bieriechel had already said he would not seek the
presidency again to satisfy Ms.Fields
yet was still a director at large on the new board of Jan 2006
prompting
the new president Scott McNabb as president to ask in Feb 2006...."
Scott McNab told Iwan Bieriechel that Iwan should resign from the
Board because
of his lack of fulfilling his fiduciary duties while president of the
Board. Iwan maintained that he
had done nothing wrong."
You see?? THIS is what I meant when I posted previously and stated
"Staggered board terms just inhibits the laundry from being completely
free of germs. "
Even Mr McNabb agreed...so did Mr Lobosco.....and so did we.
free of germs. "
And this is what I mean when I suggest term limitations, and also a
lifetime limit of one term or office.
It seems like the same buddies keep rotating offices.
In the SAME meeting of a fresh start in 2006 coming off an
exceptionally scandalous term, TWO officers called for resignations of
part or all of the board,....and none came about because none would
put the best interest of the ViIllage and the importance of trust and
transparency
before their own egos.
And it remains that way to this day.
That you for your efforts, Ms Fields, I would indeed like to know why
a "clean house" is not possible.
Another day and post please , when you have the time.
A & J
On Feb 17, 11:34 am, Marcia Fields <mar...@victoriavillage.net> wrote:
> Hello A and J.....
>
> Can only reply to you briefly since am preparing for my hearing with
> the board next week and time is limited. If you obtain a copy of the
> February 21, 2006 minutes, it contains a treasure trove of information
>
> read more »
Marcia Fields
Feb 24, 2012, 5:18:02 PM2/24/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
Hello again, A & J......
Getting back with you on your frustrations with board and desire they
all be removed. In reality that's possible but not practical because
our Bylaws require the the association be managed by a board of at
least 3 but not more than 7 directors. If the entire board resigned
or were recalled, I believe a Receiver would have to be appointed by
the court to take over business matters and that costs the association
for however long the Receiver is in place.
If any directors resign, are recalled or decide not to run for re-
election, then WHO will replace them? It's not absolutely necessary
to fill a vacant seat but sometimes it's better to do so.
You complain that the same people rotate on the board which brings me
to a HUGE problem why that is so. Lack of other owners willing to
run. Numerous years in past I have approached people to run that I
felt were honest and competent and literally begged them to run. No
go. For example, in the 2009 election, with 2 seats open, 3 people
ran and 2 new people were elected, one an owner and one a tenant.
Subsequently, the tenant resigned last year and Andrew Riis was
appointed to fill that term expiring this year. In 2010, there were 2
terms expiring; no one but the 2 incumbents ran so they remain for
another 3 years. In 2011, 3 terms were expiring and with 5 people
running (but 1 "candidate" was not really serious), 2 incumbents were
re-elected and 1 new person, Ray Murray, elected.
Your idea of term limits would need to be carefully thought through.
Again, if only set at 1 term of 3 years, who will step up and replace
those leaving? I believe it takes more than 1 term for a new director
to become knowledgeable and comfortable with trying to run a complex
the size of V.V. There are 2 currently sitting directors who are in
their 3rd consecutive terms, meaning when their seats come open, they
will have been on the board 9 years. I think a limit of 2 consecutive
terms should be seriously considered when the revised Bylaws are
reviewed and re-worked for owners' vote whenever that may be.
Board seats should NOT be considered as a perpetual "entitlement" due
to length of time an individual has lived in V.V. and/or all they may
have volunteered to do.
The purpose behind staggered terms is for the more seasoned directors
to mentor the "newbies" just coming on board. This can be beneficial
or detrimental to the degree of integrity and openness of the older
directors to guide them properly.
Finally, is it fair to condemn new directors like Ray Murray or Andrew
Riis before giving them a chance to settle in and show who they are
and how will govern?? I think not. True, they are part of the
collective "board" and are subject to general criticisms from that,
but as individuals, they need some time and our trust to function with
some confidence.
It's understandable to feel angry and blow a gasket publicly.....but
now is time to calm down and focus energies on specifics and
solutions........
1) If you do not have copies of the covenants (current Declaration
still in effect), the Bylaws and Rules & Regs.,need to get those
ASAP. Read over, study, to understand just the basics.
2) Get to board mtgs., as many as possible. Listen and
learn.......ask questions.....take notes. Get to know the board
members.....see how they interact.....how they vote.....meet the few
other owners who regularly attend.
3) Pull off copies of the financials and meeting minutes (once
approved) monthly from the association's website. Start a file.
4) Determine WHAT are your one or two main issues then focus, focus,
focus your attention on those. Become knowledgeable and try to
interest other owners, no matter how few, on your perspective of those
problems and what might be solutions. Get them to attend a board mtg.
periodically.
A large part of the frustration folks like you feel is the false idea
that you can't do anything but sound off. You can still do that
thoughtfully and then more.......but it takes time and persistence for
change. In my long experience, I've found there is ALWAYS something
that can further positive goals for V.V., sometimes little steps,
sometimes Big Steps.
Don't lose heart..........keep on.........
marcia ann
> > on subject you've raised. If you go into the association's website atwww.victoriavillageca.comthenclick on "Minutes". Will have to go
Getting back with you on your frustrations with board and desire they
all be removed. In reality that's possible but not practical because
our Bylaws require the the association be managed by a board of at
least 3 but not more than 7 directors. If the entire board resigned
or were recalled, I believe a Receiver would have to be appointed by
the court to take over business matters and that costs the association
for however long the Receiver is in place.
If any directors resign, are recalled or decide not to run for re-
election, then WHO will replace them? It's not absolutely necessary
to fill a vacant seat but sometimes it's better to do so.
You complain that the same people rotate on the board which brings me
to a HUGE problem why that is so. Lack of other owners willing to
run. Numerous years in past I have approached people to run that I
felt were honest and competent and literally begged them to run. No
go. For example, in the 2009 election, with 2 seats open, 3 people
ran and 2 new people were elected, one an owner and one a tenant.
Subsequently, the tenant resigned last year and Andrew Riis was
appointed to fill that term expiring this year. In 2010, there were 2
terms expiring; no one but the 2 incumbents ran so they remain for
another 3 years. In 2011, 3 terms were expiring and with 5 people
running (but 1 "candidate" was not really serious), 2 incumbents were
re-elected and 1 new person, Ray Murray, elected.
Your idea of term limits would need to be carefully thought through.
Again, if only set at 1 term of 3 years, who will step up and replace
those leaving? I believe it takes more than 1 term for a new director
to become knowledgeable and comfortable with trying to run a complex
the size of V.V. There are 2 currently sitting directors who are in
their 3rd consecutive terms, meaning when their seats come open, they
will have been on the board 9 years. I think a limit of 2 consecutive
terms should be seriously considered when the revised Bylaws are
reviewed and re-worked for owners' vote whenever that may be.
Board seats should NOT be considered as a perpetual "entitlement" due
to length of time an individual has lived in V.V. and/or all they may
have volunteered to do.
The purpose behind staggered terms is for the more seasoned directors
to mentor the "newbies" just coming on board. This can be beneficial
or detrimental to the degree of integrity and openness of the older
directors to guide them properly.
Finally, is it fair to condemn new directors like Ray Murray or Andrew
Riis before giving them a chance to settle in and show who they are
and how will govern?? I think not. True, they are part of the
collective "board" and are subject to general criticisms from that,
but as individuals, they need some time and our trust to function with
some confidence.
It's understandable to feel angry and blow a gasket publicly.....but
now is time to calm down and focus energies on specifics and
solutions........
1) If you do not have copies of the covenants (current Declaration
still in effect), the Bylaws and Rules & Regs.,need to get those
ASAP. Read over, study, to understand just the basics.
2) Get to board mtgs., as many as possible. Listen and
learn.......ask questions.....take notes. Get to know the board
members.....see how they interact.....how they vote.....meet the few
other owners who regularly attend.
3) Pull off copies of the financials and meeting minutes (once
approved) monthly from the association's website. Start a file.
4) Determine WHAT are your one or two main issues then focus, focus,
focus your attention on those. Become knowledgeable and try to
interest other owners, no matter how few, on your perspective of those
problems and what might be solutions. Get them to attend a board mtg.
periodically.
A large part of the frustration folks like you feel is the false idea
that you can't do anything but sound off. You can still do that
thoughtfully and then more.......but it takes time and persistence for
change. In my long experience, I've found there is ALWAYS something
that can further positive goals for V.V., sometimes little steps,
sometimes Big Steps.
Don't lose heart..........keep on.........
marcia ann
Alice S
Feb 29, 2012, 6:53:00 AM2/29/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
In re to A&J, Marsha
I think I would have to agree in many areas.
How can it possibly take a year or two to do a director's job?
It's 1 hr a month, IF the directors show up all the time.
"Director" it's just a fancy name for Baloney.
Why not something more friendly, like "Community Co-ordinator"?
I suspect it's that power thing you read about all the time.
What do they call it?.. a Phallic symbol?..or Status Symbol?
Even if it took 2 hrs a month..just at the monthly meeting with
perfect attendance,
showing that they actually cared what the homeowners had to say,
rather than
their own agendas at secret meetings,..... that would equate to
24 hr total a year.
1..day...out of 365.
My Cubscout spends more time and has better attendance.
(and HE actually completes his projects instead of dreaming up
excuses)
They seem to spend more time than that in those "secret meetings"
That is why there is an appointed property manager, the directors need
not be
7...when 3 will suffice, Proof being is that only 2-3 have an active
role
anyway...or show up.
3 honest board members is sufficient. If you can find them.
Even if no one ran, that should tell you something about the type
of people possible candidates don't want to be associated with.
I wouldn't blame it on empathy, or lack of interest.
Just distaste for the status quo and fear of retaliation by being
blamed for dog poop that's not yours.
The same reason for the lack of attendance by homeowners
at meetings is probably the same reason for the lack of candidates I
suspect.
No one wants to come home smelling like poo once a month, if they want
poo all they
have o do is open a window.
Residents only show up at meetings for 2 reasons,
A) to protest a letter they have received on "dog poop"
or
b) to ask for the board to bend the rules for them..which you don't
really need an official
ok to do, just give one or two a hug and buddy up to them maybe do
them a favor, they'll usually do it on their own
with no formal approval.
It reminds me of stashing an envelope of money in a pie from the Mrs.
The official rules are merely a formality, and the course of the years
show that they
aren't worth the paper they are written on because they are
consistently ignored with consent
of the guiding veterans that have negotiated pacts for 10-12 yrs.
*Hey,..I'll let this slide but remember one day I'm going to come ask
you for a favor,
even if it's just "look the other way", or "vote for so and so,he/
she's my friend"
Marsha, you say to "obtain" a copy of the rules....well if I'm not
mistaken everyone should already have one.
It's required that everyone be given one. But of course it's probably
"overlooked."
Do you ever see the "Welcoming Committee" come to your house, ask what
they can do, make sure
you understand that we live in a tight community , point of where the
poop is usually found so you know where not to step,
and hand you a copy of the rules as well as best way to contact
"Community Co-ordinators"??
No
and No... I would guess that most residents have no clue as to who the
board members are,
much less how to contact them, unless they are new neighbors of one of
them
in which case that member will probably go introduce herself and start
the schmoozing process.
I see often that the first thing owners/tenants know about rules is if
they get a notice
about poop, or read about how much poop and water we use in the bi
yearly newsletter.
If only poop were real fertilizer, and drool were water.
We'd have a real green landscape a year round indoor pool.
I agree too, who wants to try and fit in with the corrupt buddy
system??
Had to laugh, according to the ever so outdated and biased newsletters
that pat each other on the back
and talk about, yet never actually DO anything about...more
"Poop and water"...
Who reads the newsletter anyway?
And why would you??
They belong on the ground with the rest of the junk that is
unsolicited... like the 800 phone books.
Who wants to serve on a board that talks nothing but poop and water?
It's enough to make you fall asleep and snooze and drool at the
meetings.
The new persons on the board seem to be by default, and being taught
the "ropes"
by one of the existing members is like being shown around the
cellblock by the Bull.
Older cons conning the newer ones.
A&J stated that it might be better to have the ability to start fresh
with
honest people. I agree, people that don't have ties to family
contracts and never
will.
If no one ran to take their places, what would be so bad about that??
The worst that could happen is they would actually take bids for
services,..even ask them
to be present at the meetings.
I have a feeling that companies know when a property is "off limits"
because someone's
relative has has the sweetheart deal perpetually locked up...and why
would they be interested
in it anyway if all they could look forward to was grief from a few
disgruntled board members that did not want them
because it takes food off the table of the old family ties.
It would be worth competent services at a fair price, rather than
sweetheart deals
and back to back raises in dues in a 12 month period.
At least we would have to hope for snow to over the poop because we
know the snow removal
is non existent.
Would an appointed Receiver be so bad??
At least they'd be honest.
And would the cost of a receiver be worse than a loss to the current
and past boards of
Nearly $150, 000, not to mention sweetheart deals??
Staggered term is not the answer, if a board member were honest in
their dedication,
with no ulterior motives,
they wouldn't mind staying on for a month or 2 to "transfer guidance'
to the new
people.
I'm with A&J, it's not difficult to learn a part time job that takes
up only 24hr
a year anyway.
How could it be that hard to answer the phone, or to not answer
depending on
who you want to schmooze?
How hard can it be to learn to lie , push items off till they go away,
look the other way for friends, or make promises
you can't keep, spend money you don't have?
Good luck to Mr. Murray and Mr Riis,...if you arent already "turned
out"... you will be soon.
Alice S
> > > on subject you've raised. If you go into the association's website atwww.victoriavillageca.comthenclickon "Minutes". Will have to go
> ...
>
> read more »
I think I would have to agree in many areas.
How can it possibly take a year or two to do a director's job?
It's 1 hr a month, IF the directors show up all the time.
"Director" it's just a fancy name for Baloney.
Why not something more friendly, like "Community Co-ordinator"?
I suspect it's that power thing you read about all the time.
What do they call it?.. a Phallic symbol?..or Status Symbol?
Even if it took 2 hrs a month..just at the monthly meeting with
perfect attendance,
showing that they actually cared what the homeowners had to say,
rather than
their own agendas at secret meetings,..... that would equate to
24 hr total a year.
1..day...out of 365.
My Cubscout spends more time and has better attendance.
(and HE actually completes his projects instead of dreaming up
excuses)
They seem to spend more time than that in those "secret meetings"
That is why there is an appointed property manager, the directors need
not be
7...when 3 will suffice, Proof being is that only 2-3 have an active
role
anyway...or show up.
3 honest board members is sufficient. If you can find them.
Even if no one ran, that should tell you something about the type
of people possible candidates don't want to be associated with.
I wouldn't blame it on empathy, or lack of interest.
Just distaste for the status quo and fear of retaliation by being
blamed for dog poop that's not yours.
The same reason for the lack of attendance by homeowners
at meetings is probably the same reason for the lack of candidates I
suspect.
No one wants to come home smelling like poo once a month, if they want
poo all they
have o do is open a window.
Residents only show up at meetings for 2 reasons,
A) to protest a letter they have received on "dog poop"
or
b) to ask for the board to bend the rules for them..which you don't
really need an official
ok to do, just give one or two a hug and buddy up to them maybe do
them a favor, they'll usually do it on their own
with no formal approval.
It reminds me of stashing an envelope of money in a pie from the Mrs.
The official rules are merely a formality, and the course of the years
show that they
aren't worth the paper they are written on because they are
consistently ignored with consent
of the guiding veterans that have negotiated pacts for 10-12 yrs.
*Hey,..I'll let this slide but remember one day I'm going to come ask
you for a favor,
even if it's just "look the other way", or "vote for so and so,he/
she's my friend"
Marsha, you say to "obtain" a copy of the rules....well if I'm not
mistaken everyone should already have one.
It's required that everyone be given one. But of course it's probably
"overlooked."
Do you ever see the "Welcoming Committee" come to your house, ask what
they can do, make sure
you understand that we live in a tight community , point of where the
poop is usually found so you know where not to step,
and hand you a copy of the rules as well as best way to contact
"Community Co-ordinators"??
No
and No... I would guess that most residents have no clue as to who the
board members are,
much less how to contact them, unless they are new neighbors of one of
them
in which case that member will probably go introduce herself and start
the schmoozing process.
I see often that the first thing owners/tenants know about rules is if
they get a notice
about poop, or read about how much poop and water we use in the bi
yearly newsletter.
If only poop were real fertilizer, and drool were water.
We'd have a real green landscape a year round indoor pool.
I agree too, who wants to try and fit in with the corrupt buddy
system??
Had to laugh, according to the ever so outdated and biased newsletters
that pat each other on the back
and talk about, yet never actually DO anything about...more
"Poop and water"...
Who reads the newsletter anyway?
And why would you??
They belong on the ground with the rest of the junk that is
unsolicited... like the 800 phone books.
Who wants to serve on a board that talks nothing but poop and water?
It's enough to make you fall asleep and snooze and drool at the
meetings.
The new persons on the board seem to be by default, and being taught
the "ropes"
by one of the existing members is like being shown around the
cellblock by the Bull.
Older cons conning the newer ones.
A&J stated that it might be better to have the ability to start fresh
with
honest people. I agree, people that don't have ties to family
contracts and never
will.
If no one ran to take their places, what would be so bad about that??
The worst that could happen is they would actually take bids for
services,..even ask them
to be present at the meetings.
I have a feeling that companies know when a property is "off limits"
because someone's
relative has has the sweetheart deal perpetually locked up...and why
would they be interested
in it anyway if all they could look forward to was grief from a few
disgruntled board members that did not want them
because it takes food off the table of the old family ties.
It would be worth competent services at a fair price, rather than
sweetheart deals
and back to back raises in dues in a 12 month period.
At least we would have to hope for snow to over the poop because we
know the snow removal
is non existent.
Would an appointed Receiver be so bad??
At least they'd be honest.
And would the cost of a receiver be worse than a loss to the current
and past boards of
Nearly $150, 000, not to mention sweetheart deals??
Staggered term is not the answer, if a board member were honest in
their dedication,
with no ulterior motives,
they wouldn't mind staying on for a month or 2 to "transfer guidance'
to the new
people.
I'm with A&J, it's not difficult to learn a part time job that takes
up only 24hr
a year anyway.
How could it be that hard to answer the phone, or to not answer
depending on
who you want to schmooze?
How hard can it be to learn to lie , push items off till they go away,
look the other way for friends, or make promises
you can't keep, spend money you don't have?
Good luck to Mr. Murray and Mr Riis,...if you arent already "turned
out"... you will be soon.
Alice S
>
> read more »
Sharon
Feb 29, 2012, 9:08:25 PM2/29/12
to Victoria Village Homeowners at Colorado Springs
I am a non-resident owner and a director on the Board for my home
HOA. I can tell you that it takes more than one-hour a month,
although it often appears that is all some board members are willing
to devote to their duty. Many actions are coordinated and
accomplished through phone calls and email outside the once a month
Board meetings. I am not denying that some Board members are not
accomplishing what we believe they should be as we believe they should
be. I am simply saying it takes more than one hour a month to
properly perform the duties required of the Board.
Although I truly believe most volunteer Board members are doing their
best in the way they know how, through my experience on my home HOA
Board, most community Board members are untrained and uneducated on
the laws governing HOA and Board operations, and even on how their
duties should be accomplished. In my opinion VV Board members are
particularly susceptible to this because they have come to rely way
too much on Kerry (Z&R Mgt) for information they should know or handle
themselves. This incestuous relationship has developed to the point
where homeowner communications to our elected Board members "must" go
through Kerry. Why? Additionally, Board communications with the HOA
hired attorneys also are typically funneled through Kerry. Why? Board
members are not only responsible "FOR" the HOA operation, they are
also responsible "TO" the HOA membership. They should be open to
direct communication with the membership for more than 15 minutes at a
once a month meeting.
I disagree with the idea that rather than complain "you should just
run for the Board". Many people are simply unable to serve which is
why we elect the Board of Directors to run the HOA on our behalf.
However, as with any elected official, when you are not satisfied with
the service provided you have a right to complain, to expect to be
heard, and to have your opinions seriously considered. Ultimately
though, if the elected officials continue to under-perform or
disregard the desires of the membership, they should be replaced. If
so many people seem to be dissatisfied with some of the Board members,
why do you keep re-electing them? Perhaps because viable alternatives
are not available. In that regard, more people in Victoria Village
need to get involved, either by running for the Board or at least
attending the meetings and working together to resolve the ongoing
problems. Again, it requires paying attention and participating more
than just one hour a month.
There are several organizations and websites to keep HOA members
(Board and owners) trained and informed. Here are some I monitor for
anyone interested in getting educated:
http://www.hindmansanchez.com/ .... http://www.cohoalaw.com/ .....
http://www.caionline.org/events/Pages/default.aspx
Sharon
HOA. I can tell you that it takes more than one-hour a month,
although it often appears that is all some board members are willing
to devote to their duty. Many actions are coordinated and
accomplished through phone calls and email outside the once a month
Board meetings. I am not denying that some Board members are not
accomplishing what we believe they should be as we believe they should
be. I am simply saying it takes more than one hour a month to
properly perform the duties required of the Board.
Although I truly believe most volunteer Board members are doing their
best in the way they know how, through my experience on my home HOA
Board, most community Board members are untrained and uneducated on
the laws governing HOA and Board operations, and even on how their
duties should be accomplished. In my opinion VV Board members are
particularly susceptible to this because they have come to rely way
too much on Kerry (Z&R Mgt) for information they should know or handle
themselves. This incestuous relationship has developed to the point
where homeowner communications to our elected Board members "must" go
through Kerry. Why? Additionally, Board communications with the HOA
hired attorneys also are typically funneled through Kerry. Why? Board
members are not only responsible "FOR" the HOA operation, they are
also responsible "TO" the HOA membership. They should be open to
direct communication with the membership for more than 15 minutes at a
once a month meeting.
I disagree with the idea that rather than complain "you should just
run for the Board". Many people are simply unable to serve which is
why we elect the Board of Directors to run the HOA on our behalf.
However, as with any elected official, when you are not satisfied with
the service provided you have a right to complain, to expect to be
heard, and to have your opinions seriously considered. Ultimately
though, if the elected officials continue to under-perform or
disregard the desires of the membership, they should be replaced. If
so many people seem to be dissatisfied with some of the Board members,
why do you keep re-electing them? Perhaps because viable alternatives
are not available. In that regard, more people in Victoria Village
need to get involved, either by running for the Board or at least
attending the meetings and working together to resolve the ongoing
problems. Again, it requires paying attention and participating more
than just one hour a month.
There are several organizations and websites to keep HOA members
(Board and owners) trained and informed. Here are some I monitor for
anyone interested in getting educated:
http://www.hindmansanchez.com/ .... http://www.cohoalaw.com/ .....
http://www.caionline.org/events/Pages/default.aspx
Sharon
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