Introductions

[Admin]

 hi,

my name is Mat and I started this group with the aim of meet'n'greetin all hobby of professional machinists in Victoria .. I myself am new to the hobby and definitely fall into that category. I bought a Myford ML7 off usedvic and it sorts snowballed from there .. a BusyBee CX601 milling machine followed and I just recently picked up a beauty of a beast, a Colchester Student lathe. I'm self-taught via mostly the internet and books and would love to ad the human element where someone can actually show or teach me something .. and this is the main goal of this little group ..

I hear people are having difficulties joining and hopefully I can figure that out pretty quickly .. I don't mean for this group to be exclusive in any way, but I'd prefer if general forum decorum is adhered to .. aka. nobody wants to buy your tupperware and name calling is completely unnecessary .. even if someone may use the wrong lingo at first :)

Hope you find this if nothing else a neat idea / experiment and chat soon!

Mat

[Larry Maas]

Hello everyone, a quick intro here, Larry Maas. Machining was introduced to me in high school and I was hooked. Completed my apprenticeship with a red seal to show for it, loved machining but later ventured off into other interests. A couple of pet projects that seemed to be too small for local shops and too big for a few hobby guys has brought me full circle into slowly getting a few machines of my own set up. Currently in the process of finishing my shop and getting wiring figured out. Electrical is not my strength, so hoping I can pick up some good advice from the members as I go. My lathe is a 10 x 20 French tool room lathe, debating on a VFD or rotary phase converter to run it. Still searching for a decent 3/4 size mill to compliment that. Interested in CNC and really impressed by the people who have done conversions. Seems like some really creative talent in the group already. I'm very pleased to be a part of this new group, look forward to hearing what everyone is doing in their secret metal laboratories.

Hope I'm posting in the right place, still trying to figure out how to navigate this (and every) web site. 

[David Wrate]

Welcome Larry, that is a sweeet machine!
I have sufficient electrical experience which allows me to do all my home reno's. I just rewired my garage which included running a higher amperage service (15 amps just wasn't enough...)
I can probably provide some advice, certainly offer my own experience at the very least.

[Chris Lichty]

Welcome Larey! That lathe is a beauty! Wow! As far as VFD vs phase converter I would suggest a VFD, what horsepower is that lathe? Your shop looks like it has amazing lighting in it as well. That is a great start!

[Larry Maas]

Lathe is 3 KW or 4.02 HP. The pic is from http://www.lathes.co.uk/vuilleumierfrers/ . Turns out it is that very lathe. I believe the pic was taken on sales floor in North Van. It has only 10 x 20 capacity, but it's solid, weighs in at 1800 lbs. It came with a 7.5 hp American Rotary phase converter running through 30 amps. It was tripping the breaker on high speed when I test drove it, so American Rotary suggested to run a 40 amp breaker, but that's all the amperage I have at the shop panel right now. I could disconnect all the baseboard heaters in the house for more amps but not a great solution, so I'm looking at the VFD angle. Don't know enough about them yet but I think it will be more practical than the rotary phase converter. I'd be interested to know what amps a VFD would require to run this. It takes quite a load to spin it up, top speed is about 4000 RPM.   

[David Wrate]

What does the motor plate say for voltages?

David

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[Larry Maas]

Hi Dave, it was running 220 volt through the phase converter where I bought it. The owner had never run it up at full speed so was unaware of the limitations of the 30 amp breaker. I tripped it first time I ran it, tried a few more times, same result. American Rotary thought that a 10 hp converter would be more appropriate but since this is what I have they suggested trying the 40 amp breaker first. I did take a good look under the motor, no motor plate, which seemed a bit odd. Not much more info in the manual either. 

On Thursday, 30 July 2020 21:44:08 UTC-7, David Wrate wrote:

What does the motor plate say for voltages?

David

On Jul 30, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Larry Maas wrote:

Lathe is 3 KW or 4.02 HP. The pic is from http://www.lathes.co.uk/vuilleumierfrers/ . Turns out it is that very lathe. I believe the pic was taken on sales floor in North Van. It has only 10 x 20 capacity, but it's solid, weighs in at 1800 lbs. It came with a 7.5 hp American Rotary phase converter running through 30 amps. It was tripping the breaker on high speed when I test drove it, so American Rotary suggested to run a 40 amp breaker, but that's all the amperage I have at the shop panel right now. I could disconnect all the baseboard heaters in the house for more amps but not a great solution, so I'm looking at the VFD angle. Don't know enough about them yet but I think it will be more practical than the rotary phase converter. I'd be interested to know what amps a VFD would require to run this. It takes quite a load to spin it up, top speed is about 4000 RPM.   

On Thursday, 30 July 2020 20:29:40 UTC-7, Chris Lichty wrote:

Welcome Larey! That lathe is a beauty! Wow! As far as VFD vs phase converter I would suggest a VFD, what horsepower is that lathe? Your shop looks like it has amazing lighting in it as well. That is a great start!

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[David Wrate]

As far as I understand rotary converters are not efficient. I would bet that a VFD will run that motor on 30 A

I found this option from a Canadian supplier: https://www.emotorsdirect.ca/item/teco-sinus-m-0007-2s-t?quantity=1&tab=specs-tab
I upgraded  my mill to 3-phase using a motor and VFD from that company and I'm very happy with it.

Now if your shop only has 40A service and is not easily upgraded then another angle is to swap in a lower HP motor and VFD.
I suspect a 3HP would be just fine in your lathe and would require less current than a 4 hp.

I'd bet you could come out even by selling your rotary converter.

Food for thought.
David

[Rory Brown]

Hi, my name is Rory and I joined this  group at the suggestion of Mat.  I am certainly not a machinist but have accumulated a collection of machinist's tools (2 metal lathes, mill, welder, several drill presses, grinders etc).  What I mainly do as a hobby is  restore old wood lathes and the occasional metal lathe.  By restore, I mean, clean them up, repaint if necessary and add electronic variable speed capability.  For smaller machines I try to use treadmill motors and for larger ones VFD's.  I currently have a VFD on my metal lathe and on one drill press.  I have purchased VFD's from Ebay, Amazon and Banggood.  Shipping is slow from Ebay and Banggood but pretty quick from Amazon and the price is comparable.  So far I have not had any issues with the less expensive. offshore  VFDs from ;these suppliers. 

I am curious if anyone has experience to indicate that the inexpensive VFD's are inferior to the more expensive ones.

Thanks,

Rory

[David Wrate]

Hi Rory, I recently put a Teco 2 hp VFD on my mill. I went with the name brand for a few reasons. One was breadth of the documentation,  second (and this shows my weakness in this area) is that there is a multi-part Youtube series on a 3-phase lathe conversion using a 1 hp version of the same VFD. So I basically used that series as a guide for programming the VFD, finally I wanted the support if I found myself in trouble.
I did have trouble with forward/off/reverse switching but I leaned on a member of Hobby-Machinist.com who is very experienced in the design, and build of VFD setups. A couple of programming changes and I was in business.

I know lots of folks on H-M use off-shore VFDs. Justification is often that their low cost make them almost disposable should there be an issue.

[Rory Brown]

Thanks David,  I am not sure that I saw that youtube series, but I certainly did watch a number of them before I purchased my first VFD.  The one thing that I have noticed and didn't mention in my first post is that braking is not an option on the very inexpensive ones.  

[David Wrate]

The channel is "Clough42" The guy is very talented and skilled.

[Shawn Green]

Hey,

I will chime in about VFD's 

Currently in the shop i run at least 6 of them. all the cheapest ones i could get my hands on. Honestly i have yet to have any problem, with any VFD whatsoever.

The one that amazes me most is the one that has been running my belt grinder for years. Its a three horse belt grinder and i use it on a daily basis. just because of the way the cookie has cumbled whenever i am using it all the dust and debris tends to be flung directly at the VFD whose little fan sucks it all in. At first i thought I should make some kind of enclosure,  but as time went on i was more and more curious just how long a 125$ VFD would last in such a terrible environment. Anyway, Needless to say the stupid thing wont die and it is now a bit of a running joke at the shop. I think that tactile buttons will fail before the electronics.

I have used very expensive brand name VFD's installing well pumps over the years and sure they have nice menus and instruction manuals that are legible and clear. but thats kinda overrated anyway. Ultimately with the type of work your average VFD is doing on a machine tool ( forward / reverse / slow down/ ramp up) you don't need anything fancy.

just make sure you can always adjust your carrier frequencies. I seem to be able to hear higher pitch than some people around me and I always have to adjust those frequencies up to not drive me crazy.

As far as input power, amperage draw running 220 three phase should be negligible. my mill is running via a 5KW VFD through a simple 30 amp breaker.

[Rory Brown]

Shawn thank you for sharing that information.  Other than using an expensive VFD, that has been my experience too.  On the Canadian Woodworking Forum there was some discussion about the lifespan of these VFD's being about a year so I figured that I must have been lucky so far.  Glad to hear that someone else is seeking out the cheap ones and not  having any problems.  By the way, the least expensive that I have found is $85 for 2.2 kw.  It took 3 months to get here though:)

[Admin]

I just purchased a 4KW one off of Banggood .. comes with a decent manual that can be downloaded ahead of time .. made sense to me (the manual that is) and so I spent the 135.00 ... Haven't tested it on the motor yet but I'll try to use it on a 5HP 3Phase motor .. My intent is to only use about 3HP of that motor (for the Colchester) .. so we'll see how that all works out .. but I couldn't pass up on a 5HP Baldor 3Phase motor which was too good of a deal to not buy .. don't judge me .. you know how it is .. ;)