Re: [IESM_Hyderabad] Re: [We Gunners] The Vidyasagar Outfit
KP-GM
Dear Veterans,
I am in agreement with Cols Balkar, Ramesh, Ravinath, Anand, Balan, Mohandas and many such Sane voices coming out with balanced and mature views from time to time. And may I request Col Raman to pl postpone his introspection of IESM for a little while.
We are almost there due to the good work put in by the present setup and all veterans.
Let’s again bring more POSITIVITY in all our forums and not lose the focus on OROP.
Regards
Lt Col V K Kalia (Retd)
A Proud member of, We Gunners, IESM, SS-4, and DVVGH
A-307, Golf Links, Yapral
Secunderabad-500087
9963840490
Dear Col Tavi NathYour statement 'We foujees are straight forward and we invariably think that the interest of the organisation to which he is subscribing attached to his heart and in his mind the interest of the organisation is his TOP PRIORITY"If this be true, is accusing and using foul language against each other at this stage when IESM is very closed to its cherished aim, in the interest of the organisation?Brig vidyasagar just a few days was ago was admired for his hard, sincere and inspiring work.After he shot off some mails in anger everybody has a word of advice for him. Regards
Col Balkar Singh (Retd)
Carpet House Jandwal
Pathankot--145001Contact No--09464755551
On Saturday, 20 June 2015 9:57 PM, "Ravi Nath colra...@gmail.com [WeGunners]" wrote:
Dear Veterans,I do find just in arguments and sentiments put across by Veteran Vidhya. A person who is emotionally attached and struggled for an organisation for its betterment. He will feel offended on some pitfalls, it is just but natural. Vidhya is correct in expressing his feelings. We foujees are straight forward and we invariably think that the interest of the organisation to which he is subscribing attached to his heart and in his mind the interest of the organisation is his TOP PRIORITY.Gentlemen Veterans, You are, mostly are, much elder to me, but I feel that among our clean straight forward thinking group I can express my independent opinion fearlessly. Firstly, as of now, we are at a common objective called OROP and we have to make it possible encountering all those devils. Let us remain together till this is made true. Secondly, nobody is indispensable, call by name any one of our IESM appointments. A change after some time is essential for the best of the organisation. But let us not dissipate ourselves while we are half way through. Let us subscribe our energy and thoughts for our aim, just for the present, leaving aside all differences. We are close to reaching somewhere these days, so let us be together and strong. Towards this IESM office bearers need to shed some ego, that is not so an important a factor in comparison to our common objective. Thirdly, let our differences in house be not known to our hatred bureaucrats. they are experts in making the best of it. Lastly, at the IESM level, there is always a scope to become large hearted. Constrains of money is a big setback for the progress of any pursuit actions at our level. Last but the least ... You have seen the poor publicity in medias on our struggle for OROP. It is difficult to find the OROP Hunger Strike in any medias now. The Govt is doing everything possible to black out this message, please understand the undercurrents. No media or a common man knows about this hunger strike. We need to take an immediate action to popularize this activity.So dear Veterans, Happy going and remain strong together till dream OROP become true.Col Ravi NathOn 20 June 2015 at 19:15, Col Mohan mdku...@gmail.com [WeGunners] wrote:
I feel that Col Bala has given out a very balanced and mature view on the ongoing tussle. I do hope that all concerned would listen to him and iron out the wrinkles. All problems are surmountable. Let us hope the IESM gets back soon to action with a renewed vigour and harmony.MohanCol K Mohandas"ASHIANA", Post Office JunctionChittur (Palakkad) - 678 101 KeralaPhone: +91 4923 222694 Mobile: +91 - 9447621171
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 4:30 PM, nkbalan col nkbal...@gmail.com [WeGunners] wrote:
Hi All,I have known Brig Vidyasagar for the last few months - may be mainly from e-mails exchanged . I have always appreciated the hard and selfless work he has been doing for the veterans and the cause of OROP, But, I feel the step he has taken recently to form, what the headlines here calls " Vidyasagar gp " is a very retrograde step. He may have reasons - some genuine and some perceived - to disagree with the GB of IESM . In a huff he may have resigned . Fair enough . But, then to pour scorn publicly on the IESM is something just not done by gentlemen. One should not try and pull down orgs ,which are doing yeoman services , just because one feels some injustice has been done to him. If one feels strongly, resign . But, to raise shindy and the flag of revolt against the parent org, does NOT become a gentleman. If I remember correctly, Brig Vidyasagar was all praise of IESM till the unfortunate incidents of the 2nd week of June . He had even gone to the extent of quoting twice or thrice from what he said was from the after action reports of a worthy who acted against IESM.Now, it is raining hell fire on IESM all because of some differences in opinions on how some money should have been used. These are matters that should have been resolved between individuals over phone. It does not matter who- Wg cdr Pathak or Brig Vidya - is at fault. May be none or both. But, I will say that the day individual egos take precedence over common cause, that day will ring in the death of the CAUSE . I was at IMA for the last 3 days , attending the Golden Jubilee of the POP of my course there. We , as youngsters ,were then boosted in spirits with the noble dictum of " Service before Self ". That is an idea worth cherishing till one dies !. And, for a man like Brig Vidya, who has been doing great service for the Veterans all these years, it is a dictum worth remembering and not to be sacrificed on some little ego hassles. He may be right in feeling slighted, But, is the idea of Veteran's cause so small that it can be forgotten for a flight of ego ?. I hope not .Let his fight with individuals remain at that level ONLY. Let that not rock the boat of Veterans.I totally agree with the views of Cols Alver and Anand. Let us NOT make a laughing stock of ourselves and at the same time, make it easier for our enemies to defeat the cause of Veterans . I think the cause is above all individuals. I therefore , implore Brig Vidya and others to "Hold Their Horses" and do nothing to dilute the working of IESM at this critical moment. As a matter of fact, I even suggest that a few like thinking Offrs from the Twin cities of Hy- Sec Bads go to meet Brig Vidya personally and help him to cool down the tempers. Regards,BalaOn 19 June 2015 at 12:31, Gursharan Jolly jollygu...@gmail.com [WeGunners] wrote:
I agree, Brig Vidyasagar has done good work but breaking away is a retrograde step, I do wish his misgivings had been resolved with Gen Satbir first.On Friday, 19 June 2015, yoginder sharma yog...@gmail.com [WeGunners] wrote:
Pure wisdom-brilliant. I second!YOn Friday, June 19, 2015, Ramesh Alvar kapin...@yahoo.co.in [WeGunners] wrote:
I was astonished to learn of the existence of yet another Ex-Servicemen Body called the Vidyasagar Outfit. The tendency to form new
breakaway organisations is a deplorable feature of our Nation. This is usually the result of strong egos and the lack of awareness of the incalculable damage that will result due to proliferation of new organisations with the same avowed purpose as the parent institution. The cardinal rule is that once we set up one original organisation for certain declared objectives and that such an institution was not existing before, our sacred duty is to strengthen it at any cost.
However, no organisation functions without differences and disagreements some more serious than the other. How are these drawbacks to be managed? The only way is to debate, discuss, argue, muster opinion in support, call for referendums and so on. But once the General Body has decided on a course of action, it is the duty of all to accept that decision with grace and give it full support even if it goes against one's ideas, desires or even principles. No decision is forever or without any defect. No one is indispensable. But the organisation has to get on with its tasks. If people resign from any post in the organisation on any ground, that ground has to be strong and tenable logically. It is a matter of good taste and proper form to request the gentleman to withdraw his or her resignation. It does not imply that the Institution will collapse if that Member vacates the Chair. If the grounds are still more fundamental, the Member can resign
from the Organisation as the last and extreme resort. Setting up a breakaway body is unthinkable because such a move will dilute the influence of the parent body and harm the overall effort. Those who oppose ex-servicemen will rejoice whenever a new body comes up which is at loggerheads with others. The Indian tragedy is that our egos force us to commit harakiri by subverting the united effort.
Cabals and coteries are inevitable in any large group. That cannot be a reason for withdrawing from the immediate battlefield and setting up a front against your own earlier fmn. Cabals and coteries have to be fought from within until they are eliminated or neutralised. I have not yet read the MOA and Articles of the IESM but I shall do so shortly. Cabals and coteries can be minimised or neutralised, if not prevented, by suitable clauses in our MOA and Articles. The terms of Office are invariably restricted in most organisations and there is a mandatory cooling off period before another term. No one can be indispensible.
This is the age of the Internet. Ex-servicemen in the States need not be physically present in Delhi as Office Bearers or plain Members. Management Committee Meetings can be conducted on Skype and all concerned can participate/vote on decisions from their homes in places as far apart as Chennai and Quilon or Barmer and Agartala. AGMs and EGMs can likewise be conducted with voting by all Members over the Internet. There is no reason to feel that Members in Delhi can browbeat members in the States or vice versa. Logic, good sense and equity are very difficult to beat by any Member living in any part of India.
My advise to Brig Vidya Sagar is to disband the Vidyasagar Outfit and rejoin the IESM. That will be an act of wisdom and statemanship. His acumen can be of use to the IESM. If not, the Vidyasagar outfit will be a monument to Ego and one of the nails in the coffin of all ex-servicemen. The national trait of the ego over the larger good will have won once again.
I will now undertake a detailed study of the MOA and Articles. I have considerable experience in drafting similar documents of several organisations in the past 20 years. I will come out with my comments.
Ramesh
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On Thu, 18/6/15, Sivasankar Vidyasagar csvidy...@gmail.com [WeGunners] wrote:
Subject: [We Gunners] Re: CHAIRMAN - REAL ISSUES AT HAND THAT YOU NED TO INTERVENE [2 Attachments]
To: "Satbir" , "COL MJ GANAPATHY" , "greh bhushan" , "Col MK Veeramani" , "Venkata Reddy" , "Crr Sastry" , "ljoseph joseph" , "bhushanam knaga" , "Col. Prakash Rao" , "Govind Agrawal" , "Parvathesam Ginagam" , vijai...@yahoo.com, "Vsiddapureddy" , "J.D Khanna" , "Surendranath Pavuluri" , "Naveen G" , "Somdev Rao Madala" , "BRIG JV RAO" , "TriServiceV...@yahoogroups.com" , "We Gunners @ yahoogroups .com" , "Military Veterans" , "iesm_hy...@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Thursday, 18 June, 2015, 12:23 AM
Dear Gen Satbir Sir,
You sent a mail to me on 17 Jun requesting
to reconsider my decison to quit all posts in IESM. You
followed it up with another mail on 18 Jun. I did not want
to reply as I made my position very clear to alll.
General, I know you somewhat. You are
a thorough gentleman. You are devoted and sincere in all
your dealings. You are above board. That is the reason I am
replying to your two mails.
Col Kirit Joshipura, Maj Gen AJB Jaini,
Maj Gen P Renjen, Col RP Chaturvedi, Col Anil Kaul, Vrc are
men of integrity and honour. I respect each one of them.
But unfortunately you have
become a prisoner in the hands of few of GB
members. My fight is against a cabal comprising of
Cdr Ravindra Pathak, Gp Capt VK Gandhi and Wg Cdr CK
Sharma.
This trioka is calling
all the shots in IESM. Pl read mail of Cdr PS Nath. Your GB
does not even respect decision taken by AGM in Nov 2014.
That tells what kind of organisation you are heading
unlawfully.
You all hide behind
the screen of policies framed by GB.
You have admitted you raised a corpus of Rs
45 lakhs. Then why do you want money from State units? Do
not State units need money for their rallies which you ask
them to organise?
Have you seen mail of
Lt Gen SK Bahri on this issue?
Since the time I raised my voice on 16 Jun
2015, hundreds of mails have come on the net. Not one
veteran has pointed an accusing finger at me. Most of them
tell you to patch up with me.
You have sent a mail to me on 17 Jun 2015
asking me to reconsider my decision to quit.
I did not want to quit IESM.
I was forced to quit because of Cdr
Ravindra Pathak whose unacceptable mails on two mail gps
accusing me of many things. Pl see at what time he has made
his comments public and at what time I have replied to his
outburst. Then he has no qualms to tell Col TN Raman it is I
who has gone public with my comments in the net. Such a liar
of highest order. He goes public first and then shoves that
on me!!
Your worthy Gen Secy
sends me a mail when atmosphere is so surcharged " Brig
Vidyasagar, you have sent a mail submitting resignation from
post of Jt Secy and GB member. It will be put up to GB. Your
mail is not clear. Does it mean to say you are quitting
primary membership of IESM"? Can any one be more
stupid than your Gen Secy? Any self respecting man will
say and that is what I said " Yes, I am resigning from
primary membership of IESM".
Who is Cdr Ravindra Pathak to send SMS and
mails about how I am accounting for money given by generous
donors in Hyderabad? Have you authorised him to do so?
Not at stopping at his stupidity, your Gen
Secy send a mail to our Core Gp members " Brig
Vidyasagar has submitted his resignation. We will not give
him any responsibility. We will nominate a convenor for
States of A.P and T.S. You decide to remain in IESM or join
outfit of Brig Vidyasagar". Is there any need for such
mails?
Now I will show you
whether IESM or Brig Vidyasagar's outfit will become
popular in A.P T.S. I have told our Core gp members
that I will not hold any post in A.P T.S ESM Assn
but they are all asking me to take up the post of President
of this new org. The core gp has members who are 9 years
senior to me. That is how you have to conduct yourself
general.Not clinging to posts shamelessly for seven long
years.
May I, General, ask a
simple question and will not ask a reply because you can
not give me a reply. My question is " Why are you all
sticking to your posts in IESM for the last 7 years?. Do you
think there are no suitable members of IESM to relieve you
and carry on the work of this org? All of you want to remain
in GB for rest of your life?".
Sir, why are you telling lies that you are
Chairman. Kindly see your own MoA 2014 which I am sending as
an attachment. Your own MoA says Lt Gen Raj Kadyan is the
Chairman. But you think you are so clever just by signing in
the last page you have become Chairman of IESM? Can you show
to all members of IESM which Court of Law has approved you
as Chairman? Can you show judgment of hon'ble High
Court of Punjab Haryana which stated that the GB of Lt
Gen Raj Kadyan is the legal GB. So who are you General to
claim you are the Chairman of IESM? So be truthful at this
stage of life.
IESM can only be
saved if all GB members who completed three years to
voluntarily quit and select a new team by convening an Extra
Ordinary General Body meeting not in Delhi and not in
Maharashtra but in any place like Bengaluru or Chennai or
Trivandrum. I purposely left out Hyderabad because you will
ask me to help you. I do not want to touch any of you with a
barge pole.
Throw you GB
policies into nearest dustbin, General.
Pl listen to sane voice of hundreds of
well wishers of IESM. I can see writing on the wall. IESM
will soon disintegrate with all of you still controlling it.
If you really love IESM then kindly convene an Extraordinary
GBM and select a new team.
You justify you have
CA who audits accounts. Don't you what these CAs do and
how they prepare their reports. Satyam case is not fresh in
your memory general? So stop this hogwash that your funds
are being accounted for. Stop fleecing state units to send
money. State units are not money generating units for IESM.
Gone are days when rajas used to send tithes to
Maharajas!!
Will you be kind
enough to send Rs 20,000 to Col TN Raman who sent lakhs of
Rs as donations from Tamilnadu to IESM. He spent his own
money to organise rally in Vellore to which 5,000 veterans
and widows came.
When I use harsh
language for 500 veterans you give me Rs 1 lakh (which I
returned back) and for 5000 veterans you do not give even a
single paisa. Do you all in GB know how much does it cost to
give a cup of tea, a glass of water, one biscuit, shamianas,
chairs, stage, durries, red / green runner, PA system, photo
video ( your know all Sharmajee says you take a camera
and save money. Could there be any one stupid suggestion
than this?).
The day you all
sitting in Delhi realise we in State have also got
experience, knowledge and maturity, when you GB guys stop
treating State units as your loyal subordinates, the day you
realise you do not have wisdom to pontificate to state
units, that day your organisation will grow. But I know you
all can not come down from your high horse.
Do I still have to tell you that I
reconsidered your appeal to rejoin GB of IESM and I have
stuck to my stand that I have resigned from all posts
including Primary membership thanks to Cdr Ravindra Pathak
and Gp Capt VK Gandhi.
Last point. Can you teach little manners to
your Treasurer to learn how to address you in mails and
letters as Gen Satbir Singh. He can call you Oye Satbir in
your home or in his home. But pl tell him (thinks he knows
all!) that you were granted commission by H.E President of
India and got promotions by duly constituted promotion
boards and approved by Min of Def. You are a General
Officer. I know Wg Cdr CK Sharma does not know these
niceties but ask my coursemate Col Anil Kaul, VrC as to what
kind of reply he gave to Ms Priyanka Chaturvedi of Congress
Spokesperson on ZEE TV when she addressed Col Anil Kaul as
Mr Anil Kaul in the debate on OROP in Jun 2015.
Well General, it is sad and ending of my
association with IESM.
We are now equals. I can only promise with
support of all veterans of A.P T.S a day is not far
off when our membership of so called outfit of
Vidyasagar(courtesy: Gp Capt VK Gandhi) will overtake that
of IESM in entire country.
Pl do not destroy IESM. Hand over reins of
IESM to dedicated veterans who are eqaully good, experienced
and mature to run IESM. Gracefully quit. Time has come for
all of you say Good Bye to IESM. New blood is required to
take IESM to greater heights.
with profound regards,
Brig CS Vidyasagar(Retd)
President of Vidyasagar's outfit
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at
12:10 AM, Satbir
wrote:
Dear Brigadier Vidyasagar,
1 You have not been fair to the GB IESM which has
steered the Movement for the past 7 years with grand
success.
2 You have now questioned the very core of financial
conduct by the GB.Brig Vidyasagar,let me tell you every
paise has been counted for and spent with highest financial
propriety.An independent Accoutant and Auditor have
assisted in maintaining and auditing the Accounts.Your
pointing finger at the GB Members and appointment holders is
totally wrong,and is a false acquisition.I had never
imagined that you would be so subjective in your very
thoughts.
Regards
Satbir.
DEar
General,Good Day to all. I write to you, as I had
many times earlier, on important issues where your
intervention with leadership is required.Let me
give you a short background on the present
imbroglio:1 Gp Capt VK Gandhi, on 06
Jun, communicated that all ESM Gps had decided to hold a
rally on 14 Jun 2015. The local unit, with no facilities
unlike at Jantar Mantar, was seriously debating how to
conduct such a rally. Brig CS Vidyasagar was frantically
mobilizing people and funds for this and suddenly a debate
ensued to state that we might cancel this rally as funds
were not forthcoming from IESM HQs. I sent a mail to plead
with you all and received a nasty one from treasurer. I
attach a note (by by name of the contents). He was
dictatorial in stating that it was IRRELEVANT FROM WHERE THE
FUNDS COME!2. Next Cdr Ravindra Pathak
stated in his mail to Brig CS V that he was DISGUSTED with
him and the core Gp that supports him?!3. Gen Secretary challenged all mail addressees
whether we want to remain in the orgn or not?!Sir, to me all these three communications from GB
smack of rudeness and an approach of 'Come what may, we
are superior" and you all guys come to obey us!! I did
not become to see this day where, after retirement, I felt
that we were all equal in fighting for the rights of ESMs!
CanI get answers for following:a) I
joined as a member in 2009 and subsequently did contribute
in 2010 as also in 2012. I also joined as member of RDOA in
Nov 2014 - and to my surprise my membership is dated from
the date I joined in RDOA! What work was going on when I
hear such complaints from many members? Apart from
collecting from generous donors through Report My Signal did
the treasurer ever work to get or even give ideas to
generate funds - leave alone guiding the local units but his
attitude is to control and use it in a manner that all
contributing patrons would detest it!b)
When volunteers were assisting a hard working and dedicated
Officer like Brig CSV in organizing a rally, why should Cdr
Pathak be disgusted with these selfless volunteers? It is a
different matter that we detest him more, specially when he
uses Hyderabad groups as his own property?!c) Is the Gen Secy right in throwing a challenge
to the Gp to decide to listen to him or leave? I am a member
of RDPA and would like to be member else where but if I
speak as member of IESM, I must be given the rights within -
considering that it is not GB who actually contribute or
work. During the last 6 years, why are they manipulating to
hold their posts? Did we have bye laws barring holding of
Office for not more than two consecutive years ? I followed
the call letters and proceedings of AGMs without even
holding an approved copy of Bye Laws of IESM!!The story narrated by another selfless and senior
veteran from TN speaks of just a tip of iceberg and more
skeletons will come out if you speak to individual
state/local bodies who actually do the ground work with out
photo ops. Sir last AGM in Pune took a decision to go on
'Strike mode' if OROP was not sanctioned by end Nov
2014 - the GB unilaterally over ruled the AGM decision - I
wonder if such a thing happens with out calling for
EGM?!I do not wish to go into my
apprehensions on the likely misguidance that you get from
these GB members (Did they plan the ouster of Gen Kadyan to
benefit them or this organization?) or the possible misuse
of funds (I never got an e-copy of audited financial
statement till date).Sir, till I get
reasonably satisfactory answers, I wish to disassociate from
these members of GB and their decisions. General sir, it is
time you act now and show leadership - OROP will have to
come and there are bigger issues for ESMs to fight like
denial of fundamental right to seek judicial intervention
for un-uniformed ESMs!Thank you for you
patience,PS NathNaval Veteran
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font-size:77%;}
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p#yiv8070402281attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
#yiv8070402281 #yiv8070402281ygrp-reco
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color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
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margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#yiv8070402281 #yiv8070402281ygrp-sponsor #yiv8070402281ov
li a {
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#yiv8070402281 #yiv8070402281ygrp-sponsor #yiv8070402281ov
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#yiv8070402281
-- Colonel N K Balakrishnan ( Retd ) ," SINHGARH",Pulleppady,Chittoor Road,Kochi-682018Phone- ( 0484) 2380987
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