Sad news :( ,
then... maybe a fork? I think it won't be too traumatic .
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Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.
在 2013年1月8日星期二UTC+8下午9时12分23秒,Tim Fox写道:Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.Could you list the options in your mind?
Just found that you are starting version 2.0, is that a big change compared to 1.x?If so, maybe you could re-brand vert.x 2.0 into something new, with a name that starts with 'R' - V for VMware, R for Redhat :-)Our company has already invested in vert.x (our new service is running using vert.x 1.2.3.final), so I'm a little concerned.
to host the organisation.
+1
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If there's a determination by the community to fork (if VMWare decide not to provide alternative administration), then I'd recommend talking with the Apache Incubator group at gen...@incubator.apache.org
Not to defend VMWare. But any company would do this. And if you work for any company you will probably see in your contract or employee handbook that any projects/ideas/inventions that you create while working for that company, during company hours is the property of the company and not the person.
I don't know if vert.x started up before Tim joined VMWare, but if it was started while Tim was at VMWare and VMWare paid Tim specifially for this project, then unfortunately, it does belong to VMWare.Now with all that note.I am totally +1 on a fork. I still think it should be hosted on GitHub with a simple Apache license. No need to be an official Apache or Codehaus project.If there is a fork, it is really, extremely important to us that it is done very quickly. I am very worried as we staked a big part of our company on vert.x and if there isn't a resolution really soon, we might be forced to have to not use vert.x Even though I hope more than anything we don't have to do something as drastic as changing.
Thanks Tim and the rest of the community for all your hard work on vert.x it is greatly appreciated.
Mark
On Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:44:41 UTC, 赵普明 wrote:
在 2013年1月8日星期二UTC+8下午9时12分23秒,Tim Fox写道:Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.Could you list the options in your mind?The most obvious two options would be:1) Fork2) Find a neutral organisation (neither controlled by VMW or RHT) to host the organisation.I think we need to explore both those options.
Just found that you are starting version 2.0, is that a big change compared to 1.x?If so, maybe you could re-brand vert.x 2.0 into something new, with a name that starts with 'R' - V for VMware, R for Redhat :-)Our company has already invested in vert.x (our new service is running using vert.x 1.2.3.final), so I'm a little concerned.I wouldn't be too concerned. Vert.x is not going to disappear altogether.However the project vehicle or governance model might change.
I am deeply committed to you as a community, and I would love to continue leading Vert.x, in one form or another, to the next generation. The 1.x series of Vert.x has stoked a huge amount of interest, and the future looks incredibly bright for 2.0. I am hugely excited about the opportunities there, and I believe that you share this excitement. 2013 is potentially a huge year for Vert.x, and I want to share that journey with you.-Tim
On Tuesday, 8 January 2013 18:16:27 UTC, bytor99999 wrote:Not to defend VMWare. But any company would do this. And if you work for any company you will probably see in your contract or employee handbook that any projects/ideas/inventions that you create while working for that company, during company hours is the property of the company and not the person.IANAL, but some things are very clearly VMMware's IP as per my employment contract (domain, blog, vert.x trademark, my code contributions). Other claims are most likely frivolous (claim to the github project *itself*, or the google group *itself* (i.e. not the contents)).HOWEVER I complied with all demands since I have no appetite for litigation with them. My complying with their demands does not imply that I think they were all valid though.As to "any company would do this": That's not really true. A good example of a company that _did not_ take search a path in a similar situation is Red Hat, when the project lead of Netty left RHT to join another company. Instead RHT chose to let him continue to use the name and domain after he had left the company. Now that project is a great success and has full time employees working on it from both RHT and the other company.
I don't know if vert.x started up before Tim joined VMWare, but if it was started while Tim was at VMWare and VMWare paid Tim specifially for this project, then unfortunately, it does belong to VMWare.Now with all that note.I am totally +1 on a fork. I still think it should be hosted on GitHub with a simple Apache license. No need to be an official Apache or Codehaus project.If there is a fork, it is really, extremely important to us that it is done very quickly. I am very worried as we staked a big part of our company on vert.x and if there isn't a resolution really soon, we might be forced to have to not use vert.x Even though I hope more than anything we don't have to do something as drastic as changing.A fork is an option, but we should review all possibilities first. A neutral org does have some positive points, and VMW does seem to be amenable to such a solution. We shouldn't jump to any conclusions yet.
Thanks Tim and the rest of the community for all your hard work on vert.x it is greatly appreciated.And thanks Mark for your contributions - I hope they will continue :)Mark
Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.
Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.I am deeply committed to you as a community, and I would love to continue leading Vert.x, in one form or another, to the next generation. The 1.x series of Vert.x has stoked a huge amount of interest, and the future looks incredibly bright for 2.0. I am hugely excited about the opportunities there, and I believe that you share this excitement. 2013 is potentially a huge year for Vert.x, and I want to share that journey with you.
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alex, the only problem is that vmw doesn't want it to be done this way.
although, there was no indication in tim's post about rht willingness to pay him for dealing with vert.x .
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After giving some thoughts to it I think the best for community would be if both RHT and VMW will support moving project under Apache Foundatio
guillaume,this is exactly the problem. we point fingers BECAUSE we don't know what you do or doesn't want.the only way vmw addressed this community till now was through the legal threats to tim described above.
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guillaume,this is exactly the problem. we point fingers BECAUSE we don't know what you do or doesn't want.
the only way vmw addressed this community till now was through the legal threats to tim described above.
[...]
I think that the reason fingers were pointed was because there was no effort at communication by VMWare whatsoever beyond their private dealings with Tim,
so those were the only actions people had on which to make judgments. It would have made more sense for someone representing VMWare to post on the google group outlining the reasoning behind the requests (demands) made of Tim as well as the plan going forward.
That said, I would say that VMWare has been pretty good as regards OSS. I think though that a lot of us would like a bit more clarity as to what the vision is (near and long-term) for vert.x assuming that VMWare will be driving that vision.
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On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Asher Tarnopolski <ata...@gmail.com> wrote:
guillaume,
this is exactly the problem. we point fingers BECAUSE we don't know what you do or doesn't want.
Note that I'm not representing VMware here, I'm just speaking with my own personal voice :-)RHT and VMW are currently in discussions, and VMW is waiting for RHT's agreement on the message to send to the community. So the ball is currently in the RHT camp.
It's an error to disclose anything here till the agreement between the companies are done as it makes the whole community worry, although there's no reason to.
I had advised Tim to wait before sending such an email, as it'll make the community worry without sane reasons, and I was right, as that's what happened :-(
Everyone now thinks VMW is evil and says bad things about VMW, although it funded the creation and development of Vert.x and *does* want to continue helping the project and letting it prosper and evolve to the benefit of the whole community.the only way vmw addressed this community till now was through the legal threats to tim described above.
You only heard Tim's vision of the story
and you're making judgements without knowing the whole situation or all the details of what happened.
Rest assured that both RHT and VMW want the project to be successful and the community to be happy.
So it makes me sad to see people so vehemently say bad things about VMW because of this worrisome biased email to the community :-(
Big companies take time to agree on things, so let's all be patient, please!The joint RHT / VMW message will come, once RHT is happy with the message.
Guillaume[...]--
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
SpringSource, a division of VMware
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On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Asher Tarnopolski <ata...@gmail.com> wrote:
guillaume,
this is exactly the problem. we point fingers BECAUSE we don't know what you do or doesn't want.
Note that I'm not representing VMware here, I'm just speaking with my own personal voice :-)RHT and VMW are currently in discussions, and VMW is waiting for RHT's agreement on the message to send to the community. So the ball is currently in the RHT camp.
It's an error to disclose anything here till the agreement between the companies are done as it makes the whole community worry, although there's no reason to.
I had advised Tim to wait before sending such an email, as it'll make the community worry without sane reasons,
and I was right, as that's what happened :-(
Everyone now thinks VMW is evil and says bad things about VMW, although it funded the creation and development of Vert.x and *does* want to continue helping the project and letting it prosper and evolve to the benefit of the whole community.the only way vmw addressed this community till now was through the legal threats to tim described above.
You only heard Tim's vision of the story and you're making judgements without knowing the whole situation or all the details of what happened.
Rest assured that both RHT and VMW want the project to be successful and the community to be happy.
So it makes me sad to see people so vehemently say bad things about VMW because of this worrisome biased email to the community :-(
Big companies take time to agree on things, so let's all be patient, please!The joint RHT / VMW message will come, once RHT is happy with the message.
Guillaume[...]--
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
SpringSource, a division of VMware
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I have users who have staked their projects on Vert.x and they need to know when important changes in the control/administration of the project occur so they can make informed assessments of any perceived risk.
Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.
On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.
In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.I am deeply committed to you as a community, and I would love to continue leading Vert.x, in one form or another, to the next generation. The 1.x series of Vert.x has stoked a huge amount of interest, and the future looks incredibly bright for 2.0. I am hugely excited about the opportunities there, and I believe that you share this excitement. 2013 is potentially a huge year for Vert.x, and I want to share that journey with you.-Tim
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On Tuesday, 8 January 2013 13:44:41 UTC, 赵普明 wrote:
在 2013年1月8日星期二UTC+8下午9时12分23秒,Tim Fox写道:
Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.
Could you list the options in your mind?The most obvious two options would be:1) Fork2) Find a neutral organisation (neither controlled by VMW or RHT) to host the organisation.I think we need to explore both those options.Just found that you are starting version 2.0, is that a big change compared to 1.x?If so, maybe you could re-brand vert.x 2.0 into something new, with a name that starts with 'R' - V for VMware, R for Redhat :-)Our company has already invested in vert.x (our new service is running using vert.x 1.2.3.final), so I'm a little concerned.I wouldn't be too concerned. Vert.x is not going to disappear altogether.However the project vehicle or governance model might change.
I think that an outcome that involves the minimum disruption, a single
community and the support of both companies is preferable and achievable.
Dear Vert.x Community,As many of you already know I left VMware at the end of December and started at Red Hat last week.In the spirit of open source and as a commitment to the Vert.x community I had expected (perhaps naively) that VMware would continue to let me continue to administer the Vert.x project after I had left their employment.On the 28th December I received a letter from VMware lawyers (delivered to my door in person, no less!) that I must immediately give up and transfer to VMware all administrative rights over the following things: The Vert.x github project, the Vert.x google group, the domain vertx.io and the Vert.x blog.In response I proposed that VMware give me permission (i.e. grant a license) for me to continue to use the Vert.x trademark and domain after I left their employment. This proposal was refused.There were further talks between VMW and RHT which failed to come to a better solution.I am legally obliged to respect VMware's IP. Therefore to avoid litigation I have done the following:1. Transfer ownership of the vertx domain to VMware2. Transfer ownership of the Vert.x blog to VMware3. Transfer ownership of the vert-x organisation in github to VMware4. Transfer ownership of the vert.x Google Group to VmwareThis means I am no longer administrator of any of the above, although I am still able to "manage" the google group and commit to the projects under the vert-x umbrella.I am very concerned about this turn of events, as I understand it creates uncertainty in the Vert.x community.For now, I will continue leading the Vert.x community the best I can under these restrictions, but we, as a community need to consider what this means for the future of Vert.x and what is the best way to take the project forward.I don't have the answers to that right now, but there are several options. I would like to make sure we have some kind of concensus in the community before jumping to a conclusion.
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Another Open Source project killed by big business. Shame on Vmware - authors won't touch it now, it's as good as dead and buried.
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Le 11/02/2013 13:02, Kevin McCaughey a �crit :
C�dric