nancar cereana lorimer
Charise Scrivner
My opinion is that flow rate for filtration is overrated. It is my belief through my fish keeping experience, that the amount of surface area water passes through is more important than the rate in which water is moved. For example, if I have a sump that is packed with media, and water passes through at 200 gph for a 75 gallon tank, many people would say that it is not enough. But, the water is actually touching more surface area and beneficial bacteria than a much smaller filter that is moving 600gph.
With your under gravel filter, you essentially have the entire floor of the tank and the substrate as the surface area, so I don't think that the rate in which the water passes through is critical for biological filtration.
with 2 of them, i would try at the 25% setting. i like water flow, and lots of filtration, but you must meet the needs of the fish. if the filters are blowing the fish all over the tank, and they cant find a space to rest, thats a problem. id start 25% on each, and if that doesnt seem to be enough, turn one up to 50, if still not enough turn the other up to 50 too, repeat as needed.
I have a 37 gallon tall. It has the same footprint as a 20 gallon long. I have an undergravel filter with dual power heads rated at 127 gph each and running at 100%. I also have an aquaclear 110 HOB full of 15 ppi sponge also running at 100%. I currently have harlequin rasboras, zebra danios, a siamese algae eater, and some red cherry shrimp. They do not seem to have any problems with the flow.
I can understand the thought that a lower flow rate will give the water more contact time with the beneficial bacteria on each pass, but also note that the higher flow rate will bring more oxygen to the beneficial bacteria. If you have a decently planted tank, the roots of the plants will also provide oxygen.
I don't think anyone fully understands the science of what is happening in our tanks. Each tank is its own little ecosystem, and no two tanks are exactly identical. You can research and ask questions to get a starting point, but you have to experiment and observe to find what works best for you for this tank. That is part of the fun of the hobby for me.
I am pro powerhead for UGFs for the simple reason that I can see them working. The 132 gph rating is a best case scenario. Unless stated otherwise, the rating doesn't account for lift or substrate depth or type. Watching the fish is the best way to determine the flow rate in my opinion. If the fish are avoiding one area of the tank, hiding, or must constantly swim upstream than the flow is too much. The powerhead I used for years in my 29 was too much when I switched to nano fish.
One powerhead is probably adequate. The 40 breeder footprint is not significantly larger than the 29. Because your flow rate is adjustable, I would continue to use two for the additional turnover through the entire substrate.
This sounds like the place to ask this. I have a 20 gallon high with a sponge filter running. The flow in the tank seems to be pretty low. Lots of mulm on plants. How can I increase flow without using a HOB or power head? Maybe add an additional air stone/sponge filter to the opposite side of the tank?
@jasper5150 I would try to optimize the sponge filter that you have first. If you don't want to use a HOB or power head or canister, you will probably need to use a second sponge filter. There are benefits to running two sponge filters, such as having an extra cycled sponge filter to use in an emergency quarantine or hospital tank.
If it was my tank, I would use both powerheads. If the UG filter was designed with two uplift tubes,, I would use them to get equal flow across the tank, especially of the filter has two plates that sit next to one another or connect. If you think about it, if you have one uplift tube in one of the back corners, how much flow is it going to pull from the corner diagonally from it? I would want to get as much flow through the gravel as possible, otherwise it would be like in a canister or HOB filter that has water channeling and not going through the filter media the best.
Im in the process of getting a 20long up and running.. have to buy some parts -- powerheads one of them. I was actually just content with the assumption that 10-20x waterflow is whats needed, and was going to get the koralia nano 240gph powerheads -- 2 of them -- one for each side. I decided to just look at other tanks here on the forum, and i see people with powerheads from what Im saying to even 2000gph total flow!!!
So... is this just personal preference? Im planning on having softies, and lps later on in the game. And fish. I assumed this kind of flow would have a negative effect on the fish? I have a maxijet in my 10 gallon that does bout 160gph, and the clowns only go in front of that current when they 'want to exercise' otherwise they chill in the so called dead spaces of the tank.... or am i just not understanding?
dont worry about the fish. we can't possibly match the amount of water movement in our tanks that fish encounter in the wild. well, i suppose we could, but not without water shooting out of our tanks. personally, i highly suggest an mp10 for a 20l if your budget permits. if not then the dual 425's should be adequate.
judging by the pic in your sig you use a very fine sand. an mp10 in such a shallow tank with fine sand would be almost pointless. vortechs create alot of under tow and would be blowing that sand all over the place.
I use a quiet one 1200 (i think) return pump and a powersweep 214 (I think) and I believe that is enough flow. My tank is rather low flow in places and very high flow in others. I like the dichotomy. I will use the same powerheads when I set up the 46. I don't think I'll put in any more.
argh, everyone is goin on bout the mp10.. .lol -- if i can get it for 100 bucks then fine,t hats basically how much 2 750's would run ... but... how is it that one powerhead can make such a difference? why not get 2 750's brand new for 100bucks, and put em on either side.. isn't that 'better'??
I think theres too much hype about the MP10. sure, its a nice powerhead, but not worth the 100 or 120 or whatever. I'd get it at 50$ (which is still a bit much for a powerhead). It'll drop to round that price eventually (remember when they were about 500 or whatever when they first came out?). My tanks can wait.
see if i get 2x425's it'd be bout 80 bucks.... which is what i think im gonna go with..? well i was originally gonna get the 250's or what not... but ... hahahah, i have no idea... im gonna sit this one out for a bit, and figure it out.. if anyone else is reading this and thinks the points have been made -- THEY HAVE NOT.. MAKE SOME MORE ARGUEMENTS! lol
i like it mainly because i can change the flow and like the random flow my lps sways with, thats all really. i like dancing corals and a lot of movement and i feel like it gives it to me while the koralias couldn't. it's expensive but regardless of what tank i upgrade to (i can't get much bigger than 25 for space reasons), i'l be able to have just this one powerhead with a clean look and no powerhead wires in the tank. it isn't for everyone, but if you can get it for $100 locally i'd jump on it, especially if you're gunna spend like $80 on constant-speed powerheads
lol i read the part where you said the 425's with the ac50 should be fine, then i come here, and you're tellin me otherwise! lol, i hear yea tho.. I dont' want to make that mistake.. ur right.. but i just really can't fork out that dough -- im goin cheapo on the lights.. was going to get 'no name' powerheads, thougth id stick to koralia.. but i also dont' want to f'up this tank as well... plus i think im gonna be puttin in 40lbs of rock.. which i see no one is doing.. just got that much base rock.... hmmm
Wow, you couldn't possibly be more mistaken. If you ever find a new, or even used vortech mpanything for $50 then I highly suggest you buy it. FYI, no vortech short of the new mp60 has ever cost $500. I think your tanks will be waiting indefinitely.
To the op, the reason why everyone is telling you that the mp10 would be a better option than the two 425's is likely because the mp10 (along with all other vortech pumps) not only produces a much wider flow pattern (you want that) than any other pumps, but it also has a much higher gph output than the two 425's combined. Then there's the controlability. There's numerous different ways you can use the pump, you can basically customize the flow in your tank to whatever suits your needs best.
There's a reason why so many of us are willing to pay for the quality vortech pumps provide, and it's definitely not just a fad. I think you will be very hard pressed to find anyone either on here, or any other reef forum that isn't satisfied with these pumps. Just my $.02.
true dat.. . this is the other thing.. u guys in the states get mad good deals for anything.. up here in canada things are more expensive in general, and deals like that don't come around... we've got a total of approx 35 million people up here... thats like double ny's population.. lol
appreciate the opinion -- I did some more research and i understand now about the controlability. I had no idea that 'programs' were available for type of flow... Again, my problem is budget.. and maybe one day i'll start up a 'real' tank, and be able to get all of these things.. i think for now im starting to realize that I can't just buy everything that the ideal tank would have, and am going to have to make due as a beginner ... live life like that..... I guess im gettin the civic before I get the SLR....
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