Adjusting VDE for dvorak?

[Johann Oskarsson]

Dear VDE,

First time user of VDE, and I've installed it in a virtual DOS machine [1] and I wonder, is it possible to configure it for dvorak?  [2]  By that, I mean moving the various control keys around to keep the star shape for movement, and possibly some other utility functions, just like they'd be on qwerty.

At first glance VINST does not allow me to reconfigure keybindings, so I didn't investigate further.

Thank you,

Johann

[1] So I have all the joys of a new computer with DOS, except the new computer.
[2] Microsoft was polite enough to put it on the supplemental diskette.

[Eric Meyer]

Hello Johann,

No, VDE doesn't allow remapping command keys. A change or two might be done
with a patch, but large-scale reassignment would create conflicts and make
hash of the WordStar command set. The Dvorak keyboard in particular is a poor
match, as the keys near (CapsLock remapped to) Ctrl include punctuation and
letters that don't match mnemonics like "Q"uick.

If you give up on Dvorak and want to use VDE after all though, feel free to
ask any further questions or just tell us which DOS emulator you're using and
how well it works. You'll find some useful past conversations on such
subjects too.

Best wishes -- Eric Meyer.

[Johann Oskarsson]

Hi Eric,

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 8:58:00 AM UTC+8 Eric Meyer wrote:

Hello Johann,

No, VDE doesn't allow remapping command keys. A change or two might be done
with a patch, but large-scale reassignment would create conflicts and make
hash of the WordStar command set. The Dvorak keyboard in particular is a poor
match, as the keys near (CapsLock remapped to) Ctrl include punctuation and
letters that don't match mnemonics like "Q"uick.

Yeah.  I'll try VDE with dvorak for the moment, seeing if I can use it without customization.  No promises if I keep using it, but I want to at least try it out.

I originally switched to dvorak to cope with an injury, and it simply hurt less to type with it than qwerty.  Now, more than a decade later, that may not be true anymore, but I'm not in a hurry to find out.

If you give up on Dvorak and want to use VDE after all though, feel free to
ask any further questions or just tell us which DOS emulator you're using and
how well it works. You'll find some useful past conversations on such
subjects too.

I set up MS-DOS in VirtualBox, for some testing and play, and am shopping around for a text editor.  So far, VDE seems to be the fastest of those I've tried, it feels more like a real machine, than emulation, when I use VDE over edit.com or Watcom's vi.

It's bothersome to move files to and from the host system [1], as then I use the Disk Management tool in Windows 10 to mount the .vhd image [don't choose .vdi if you want to use this feature; I learned from experience.]

[1] At least at first, as I've now downloaded mTCP and may try good old FTP or something later on.

Thanks,

Johann

[Eric Meyer]

Johann Oskarsson wrote:
> I set up MS-DOS in VirtualBox, for some testing and play, and am shopping
> around for a text editor.  So far, VDE seems to be the fastest of those I've
> tried, it feels more like a real machine, than emulation, when I use VDE over
> edit.com or Watcom's vi.

That suggests a very high emulation quality in VirtualBox. Can VDE's AltE
command change font sizes? That doesn't work in vDOS etc.

I don't recall anyone here using VB, which sounds like a very thorough and
satisfying approach -- although just popping up an emulator like vDOS+ in
Windows is certainly convenient.

-- Eric.

[Thomas Desi]

Hi Johann, 

I am using a programmable Keyboard ( https://www.tipro.net/ecatalogue/free/ ) and there I can assign any key on up to 4 layers to any command or letter I want. 

So I am using VDE on my own designed kayboard layout (German) and often used commands on single dedicated keys to make mental load easier. 

Regards, 

Thomas

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[Johann Oskarsson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 2:21:58 AM UTC+8 Eric Meyer wrote:

Johann Oskarsson wrote:
> I set up MS-DOS in VirtualBox, for some testing and play, and am shopping
> around for a text editor.  So far, VDE seems to be the fastest of those I've
> tried, it feels more like a real machine, than emulation, when I use VDE over
> edit.com or Watcom's vi.

That suggests a very high emulation quality in VirtualBox. Can VDE's AltE
command change font sizes? That doesn't work in vDOS etc.

Yes, that works in VirtualBox.  One of the first things I tried, when
I went through the help popup in VDE.

I don't recall anyone here using VB, which sounds like a very thorough and
satisfying approach -- although just popping up an emulator like vDOS+ in
Windows is certainly convenient.

The bad things about VirtualBox is that you don't have direct access
to the host's file system.  I use mTCP's ftpsrv when I need to
transfer files, and I suspect there's a way to SMB mount the host's
file system.  I don't know if anybody has made a driver for VBox's own
host file system sharing.

So I think for convenience sake, it's better to run vDOS or something
like it, rather than VirtualBox just for VDE.

Of course, for reasons of my own, I chose VirtualBox first, then I'm
trying out various editors for DOS in it.

Johann

[Johann Oskarsson]

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 8:30:58 PM UTC+8 Thomas Desi wrote:

Hi Johann, 

I am using a programmable Keyboard ( https://www.tipro.net/ecatalogue/free/ ) and there I can assign any key on up to 4 layers to any command or letter I want. 

So I am using VDE on my own designed kayboard layout (German) and often used commands on single dedicated keys to make mental load easier.

Right, thanks.  Though I am technically using a programmable keyboard,
some forum posts suggested the vendor's software for it was so bad it
could brick the keyboard [it was recommended to me for other reasons,
so I'm happy] and haven't dared to try it.

And unfortunately, the one pull request with QMK [or whatever it's
called] support was deleted, and I'm not that good at hardware tracing
to duplicate that effort.

Anyway, that said, using Windows host, I'm sure I could rebind the
keys with AHK conditionally for VDE in VirtualBox, and use that.  I
did not get that idea until I read your post, and if I do, I'll report
back with how it works.


Johann

[Eric Meyer]

Johann Oskarsson wrote:
> Anyway, that said, using Windows host, I'm sure I could rebind the
> keys with AHK conditionally for VDE in VirtualBox, and use that.  I
> did not get that idea until I read your post, and if I do, I'll report
> back with how it works.

In case anyone is interested, AHK bindings do NOT work while a vDOS+ window is
active; it must be intercepting key input at such a low level itself that it
interferes.

Has anyone been following the development of DOSBox-X? It didn't get along
well with VDE the last time I tried it, due to clock speed issues.