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[aman bhardwaj]

Hi guys

 

Here are a couple of things I would like to know from you:

1. I just saw this video of a 767 taking off in a storm and  noticed something really surprising- the spoilers are deployed throughout the takeoff roll! And also, the spoilers keep moving up and down even after rotation. I tdoesn't look like the pilot has manual control over the spolers as they move so quick with the bumps. Take a look-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9IhQxmt08U

I don't know if this is standard procedure for takeoff in windy conditions but i don't see the point. Spoilers would obviously add to the drag, so why would pilots want that?
Please correct me here.

2. On my flight on the 777(photo attached), I noticed this control surface on the wing between the two flaps. It keeps moving up and down when the aircraft flies through turbulance(as also in 767 video above). Aparently, it counterats the effect of turbulence. What is this thing called?
But I have also noticed that it also works as an aileron while the wingtip ailerons hardly move. Is this what they call the "high speed aileron"? Or is there some other name for it as it also provides roll stability?

Thanks in advance!  Hope to see you online soon :-)

Aman

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[Hakan GUVEN]

1-In my opinion, Russian plane should be never try to takeoff in this extraordinary windy and rainy weather condition! as far as I know, if rain over the limits (by advise of company or plane SOP) as mm/cm2 and volume, engines can not be run properly becouse engines sucks more then "water" than "air" for running! wet fuel doesn't burn!

 

I remembered that we were turing back from Langkawi to Kualalumpur at 2006. Pilot get decided to delay due heavy rain in Langkawi (for 737-400). Rain wasn't much as on Russian plane video. After 30 minutes delay, rain has been slow down (but not stopped, it was still heavy class), we tookoff to KL.

 

for spoilers; I think they though to take under control the plane for protect of unexpected lift off while running on runway becouse it seems there is really strong storm. if they doesn't use the spoilers probably plane would be tookoff before Vr speed by speed in the air with heavy wind. Maybe plane shall be noseup with lift effect by strong winds.

 

This is really example for " don't do this" in aviation training.

 

2- there is no abnormal situaiton, it maybe comes from airplane model configuration but I'm sure to see like that deploy flaps in this section. It is correct , it calls name as highspeed aileron, actually a part of high speed ailerons and wing spoilers. It is helps to leveled of wings in the wing root section (provide of aerodynamic effects in whole wing part ). It does work for stability of roll as you said that. (doesn't work alone, it works with spoilers over the flaps)

 

----- Original Message -----

[Arjun Murthy]

Hey Aman, If you notice, not all the spoilers are up (atleast to what i could see). Due to the crosswind, the pilot decided to keep the left wing down (Xwind was from the left) and didnt' want the left wing to raise so applied a good load of left aileron. If you look all the way over to the end, yo uwill see the aileron up. When the aileron goes up in most newer commercial airplanes, the spoilers also partially go up. This is so there is that extra drag on that wing to kind of get it to move i guess. I don't really know how to explain how that works but try to visualise it with wind movingover it and how the wind deflects off the certain parts of the wing. The inner 'control surface' to what i know is also ailerons. Forgive me if i'm wrong but from my observations on videos and from when i've flown in RL as a passenger, it seems to move in sync with the aileron at the far end. I assume its just for a bit more help in turning the plane. You will notice this as well on the video. It is up at the beginning due to the left aileron. Also after it takes off, you'll notice that the spoilers go up whenever the ailerons go up (and this inner one goes up as well so this should be ailerons). I've never come across any other control surface on the trailing edge. After take off, it rapidly goes up and down because the pilot is trying to keep the plane stabilised. Just imagine you with a bleaming 20 kt wind from the left, you put in full left aileron so the wing doesn't lift off, the wind pushes your tail so your nose goes to the left as well. You'll need a bit of right rudder (yes it seems opposite but its correct when you think about it hitting the tail). Then when you reach Vr, you have to keep the wings reasonably level so you don't bank after lifting off (on the ground the wheels stop the plane from rolling) but after taking off, even with the Xwind, the left wing may go all the way down and goodness won't come out of that. Then you also need to straighten your rudder so you don't slip the airplane, that will also cause a lot of extra drag that really isn't required to clear the airplane from the ground. Because of the sudden change in left aileron to almost striaght aileron, it isn't that easy to judge when to keep it straight s oa few movements will be required. These will be quick drastic movements. Hope that helps Arjun --- On Fri, 23/4/10, Hakan GUVEN <haka...@superonline.com> wrote:

[aman bhardwaj]

Thanks a lot guys. That made most of it clear

Aman

[Parthiban Vijayaraghavan]

Great sharing...... Thanks aman and hakan

Sent from my Nokia phone

[gautam siddhu]

for the 767: To compensate for  crosswind, pilot steered the aileron. Left side up and the other side down. for the 777: the marked part is a part of aileron, it goes up and down as steered by the pilot. --- On Fri, 23/4/10, Parthiban Vijayaraghavan <parthiban.vi...@gmail.com> wrote:

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