13 VARNA AND ASHRAMA COMBINATIONS and their focal points

[niscala dasi]

13 VARNA AND ASHRAMA COMBINATIONS and their focal points

These are the thirteen possible combinations of varna and ashrama, and
the focus of each.

Originally this was in table format, and much easier to look at, but
it would not paste into this document without corruption…Anyone who
would like to receive it as a table, please email me.

I am posting it here so that suggestions and improvements can be taken
on board. Thank you.

A

Brahmacari/varna
Training- spiritual and material educational emphasis

i) Brahmacari sudra
Spiritual: emphasis on the value of respecting others and developing
the service attitude, and such qualities as humility

Material- physical training, and training in art and craftwork

ii) Brahmacari vaisya
Spiritual:
Emphasis on the value of kindness, gratitude to subordinates,
generosity to those in need and reverence and support for seniors
Material:
Training in agriculture, cow protection and business

iii) Brahmacari ksatriya
Spiritual:
Emphasis on duty to the needy, what it means to be the arms of the
Supreme Lord, and the generosity needed to never refuse anyone shelter
and kindness, learning to see all people as family members, honesty,
transparency.
Material:
Training in counseling, psychology and management

iv) Brahmacari brahmana
Spiritual:
Emphasis on equality of vision, on separating matter and spirit, on
working towards the ultimate welfare of all, on wisdom,
on philosophical debate, and resolving both philosophical and moral
dilemmas
Material
Training in austerity, simplicity, cleanliness etc

B

Grhastha/varna
duties and qualities

i) Grhastha sudra
Duties
Engaging in service according to natural propensity and training- for
those creatively inclined, art and craft, for those physically
inclined, physical labour
Qualities:
Respect, humility tolerance and service attitude

ii) Grhastha vaisya

Duties: engaging in business, agriculture or cow protection, rewarding
workers will all facility, now and for future emergencies, treating
guests and strangers exactly like the Personality of Godhead.
Qualities: generosity, kindness, appreciation

iii) Grhastha ksatriya
Duties:
Taking 25% of vaisyas business profit and redistributing the same to
those in need, providing for a medical and emergency fund, counseling
distressed devotees, and
ensuring the other varnas are acting dutifully
Qualities:
Responsibility, empathy,
appreciation, courage, resourcefulness

iv) Grhastha brahmana
Duties:
Teaching and worship of the diety, writing books, resolving
philosophical contradictions, answering philosophical doubts, and
giving advice in moral dilemmas, ensuring that the other varnas are
progressing in spiritual realization and vaisnava qualities.
Qualities:
Equality of vision, detachment, transcendental knowledge

C

Vanaprastha/varna

Increasing sadhana chanting, plus:

i) Vanaprastha sudra
Learning from the scriptures via the brahmanas, serving self-realized
souls in a menial way, visiting holy places with wife, becoming less
active and more introspective as age increases

ii) Vanaprastha vasiya
Giving away accumulated wealth for the welfare of all, reducing or
eliminating business activity,
Becoming free from envy, and detached from wealth and ownership
consciousness, hearing and discussing scriptures with the brahmanas.

iii) Vanaprastha ksatriya
Leaving home and responsibilities to cultivate awareness of the Lord
in the heart of all living entities, and detachment from the body
through austerities and penances, hearing and discussing scriptures
with the brahmanas, cultivating an awareness of life’s ultimate goal
and shelter

iv) Vanaprastha brahmana
Renunciation of the concept of brahmana and cultivating the
consiousness of being a servant of the servant of the gopis,
meditation on the above through thought and practical action,
detachment from false ego through austerities, penance, etc.

D

Sannyasa Ashrama

i) Sannyasa sudra
Not available

ii) Sannyasa vaisya
Not available

iii) Sannyasa ksatriya
Not available

iv) Sannyasa brahmana
Renunciation of “village brahmana” consciousness through leaving home
and traveling, without support, depending on the Lord’s mercy for
sustenance, begging for alms, or just waiting till the Lord will
provide them, eating ever more simply and austerely, sleeping less,
and teaching others the ultimate goal of life

[Ganga IDS]

PAMHO!

> 13 VARNA AND ASHRAMA COMBINATIONS and their focal points
>
> These are the thirteen possible combinations of varna and ashrama, and
> the focus of each.
>
> Originally this was in table format, and much easier to look at, but
> it would not paste into this document without corruption…Anyone who
> would like to receive it as a table, please email me.

You can upload the table into the gmail documents and let us view the
document. In this way you will not have to send the table to everyone
- there will be one document and all we could edit it and see who made
which changes.

Your servant
Ganga dd

[Greg Jay]

PAMHO AGTSP

Neither the 13 combination nor the 7 combination delineations of Varnas and Ashrams is correct, sastric or what has ever been seen in India.

Let's consider the mathematical combinations and see the fallacies of these different combination models.

There are four Varnas and four Ashrams however not every combination is possible or even desirable.

Let's see the 16 combinations and comment on them.

First it is understood from sastra that certain Varnas are not qualified for certain Ashrams.

The word Varnashram in Sanskrit is a compound and according to Sanskrit grammar the first word in a compound is always the most important.

Thus Varna precedes and is more important than Ashram.

Prabhupäda: First of all varëa. And äçrama, then, when the varëa is perfectly in order, then äçrama. Äçrama is specially meant for spiritual advancement, and varëa is general division. It must be there in the human society, or they're on the animals. If varëa is not there, then this is a society of animal. And when the varëa is working perfectly, then we give them äçrama. Varëäçrama. That is later on. 3/14/74

Now let's look at the combinations. Just because a combination is possible also does not mean that every member of every Varna will accept every possible Ashram.

The Grhastha ashram is for all Varnas and everyone is qualified for it.

Varna will be mentioned first being more important.

1. Brahmin brahmachari (At a young age before puberty the boy takes the upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he goes to gurukula where he studies brahmanical subjects)

2. Brahmin grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

3. Brahmin vanaprastha (Upon retirement a grhastha becomes a vanaprastha who either travels with or without his wife to holy places. In any case he separates from his children.)

4. Brahmin sannyasi (Upon renunciation and sannyasa samskara a vanaprastha must no longer even assocaite with his wife. This ashram is only for male brahmins.)

5. Ksatriya brahmachari (At a young age before puberty the boy takes the upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he goes to gurukula where he studies ksatriya subjects)

6. Ksatriya grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

7. Ksatriya vanaprastha (Upon retirement a grhastha becomes a vanaprastha who either travels with or without his wife to holy places. In any case he separates from his children.)

8. Ksatriya sannyasi (Not a possible combination)

9. Vaishya brahmachari (At a young age before puberty the boy takes the upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he goes to gurukula where he studies vaishya subjects)

10. Vaishya grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

11. Vaishya vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Upon retirement a grhastha becomes a vanaprastha who either travels with or without his wife to holy places. In any case he separates from his children.)

12. Vaishya sannyasi (Not a possible combination)

13. Sudra brahmachari (Not a possible combination because he does not take upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he does not go to gurukula. At or before puberty he must get married or he will cause problems in society.)

14. Sudra grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

15. Sudra vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Sudras do not retire, and they must always be dependent on the dvijas they serve thus an independent state like Vanaprastha is not possible for them.)

16. Sudra sannyasi (Not a possible combination)

Women:

1. Brahmin Woman grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

2. Ksatriya Woman grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

3. Vaishya Woman grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

4. Sudra Woman grhastha (Upon completion of the vivaha samskara one is married thus entering the grhastha ashrama.)

Another explanation must be made about women who also have Varnas.

Since women are dependent like sudras, under the care of their father in youth, husband after marriage and son if the husband dies or is a brahmin and takes sannyasa then are never independent and thus cannot be brahmacharinis (due to not going to gurukula or receiving upanayanam sacred thread initiation into brahmacharya), nor sannyasinis because they are always dependent and may rarely accompany their husband during his stage of vanaprastha.

Like the Sudras they also do not take upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and they does not go to gurukula. At or before puberty they must get married or they will cause problems in society. Like Sudras they are always to be protected and dependent so their ONLY ashram is Grhastha. There are no Brahmacharinis, Vanaprasthinis, or Sannyasini in Classical Sastric Varnashram. Some higher class (Brahmin and Ksatriya) women are allowed to choose their husbands in a ceremony called Svayamvara (one choice). Otherwise marriages are arrange between members of the same Varna and marriages outside of one's Varna are discouraged as it leads to mixed progeny. If a Woman marries a higher class man that may be permitted and is called Anuloma marriage. Women are forbidden or discouraged from marrying a lower class man, that marriage being called Pratiloma. The offspring of such mixed marriages either Anuloma or Pratiloma are given different names of subclasses and are not considered desirable.

The men of the higher classes—the brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaisyas—do not beget children in the wombs of lower-class women. Therefore the custom in Vedic society is to examine the horoscopes of a girl and boy being considered for marriage to see whether their combination is suitable. Vedic astrology reveals whether one has been born in the vipra-varna, kshatriya-varna, vaisya-varna or sudra-varna, according to the three qualities of material nature. This must be examined because a marriage between a boy of the vipra-varna and a girl of the sudra-varna is incompatible; married life would be miserable for both husband and wife. Consequently a boy should marry a girl of the same category. Of course, this is trai-gunya, a material calculation according to the Vedas, but if the boy and girl are devotees there need be no such considerations. A devotee is transcendental, and therefore in a marriage between devotees, the boy and girl form a very happy combination. SB 6.2.26

Once again Prabhupada is mentioning Astrological Based Analysis of Varna as important not only at the beginning of the child's education but also at marriage. Presumably the boys have already been divided according to Varna and at marriage the girls now have to be divided so they can marry a boy of the same Varna.

CONCLUSION

The conclusion is that in a Varnashram society the number of most likely combinations are 10 for men and 4 (rarely 5) for women.

Brahmin 4 ashrams (Brahmachari, Grhastha, Vanaprastha, Sannyasa)

Ksatriya 3 ashrams (Brahmachari, Grhastha, Vanaprastha)

Vaishya 2 ashrams (Brahmachari, Grhastha)

Sudra 1 ashram (Grhastha)

Women 1 ashram (Grhastha) or possibly for Brahmin Women 2 ashrams (Grhastha, Vanaprastha) but in this case when the husband dies or in the case of a brahmin takes sannyasa they revert to Grhastha ashram and are looked after by their children. Though it is common in Vrndavan and some other places for widows to stay away from their families in special ashrams this is not a part of Classical Sastric Varnashram. In actual Varnashram the widow must be cared for by the family members.

I have noted that Niscala dasi has accepted the combination of Sudra Brahmachari please see above how that is not possible.

I have also noted that Prabhupada das has not made any distinction between Brahmin, Ksatriya, and Vaishya brahmacharis this is also not correct there is a big difference in what each is taught so at the beginning of their training they must be distinguished. He also allows for all four classes to take Vanaprastha. Sudras of course cannot have independence needed to take Vanaprastha so this is also incorrect. He is correct that the possibility of Vaishya Vanaprasthas exists in theory but in practice it is not seen in India. He also accepts that any person may renounce and take sannyasa but this is clearly incorrect as only Brahmins may take sannyasa.

Prabhupäda: This is Vedic civilization, varëäçrama, four varëas and four äçramas: the brähmaëas, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra... And the sannyäsa is especially meant for the brähmaëas, not the kñatriyas or the vaiçyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brähmaëa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyäsa is for the brähmaëa. The system that without being a brähmaëa nobody can take sannyäsa. 6/22/75 LA

[niscala dasi]

Dear GKP,

Thank you for your long reply. I was looking forward to it, and I am
glad it was interesting enough for you...;)

>>>Now let's look at the combinations. Just because a combination is possible also does not mean that every member of every Varna will accept every possible Ashram.

Oh yes, that is understood. But it is just for those who do...

>>Vaishya vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Upon retirement a grhastha becomes a vanaprastha who either travels with or without his wife to holy places. In any case he separates from his children.)

thats kind of contradictory prabhu- besides, so many devotee
businessmen in ISKCON have retired and taken full-time to spiritual
life- I know of several myself...you don't know of any?

>> Sudra brahmachari (Not a possible combination because he does not take upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he does not go to gurukula. At or before puberty he must get married or he will cause problems in society.)

I am sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Let me make myself clear now-
with the odd exception, I always write about VA as it applies to
devotees, SP recommending a VA college for training in all the varnas-
if I am not mistaken- another point- I also write about VA as it
applies to the modern age, when devotee children are by law required
to be educated to age 16. It happens in Kerala, btw, in case you think
me a bit Eurocentric! :)

>>Sudra vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Sudras do not retire, and they must always be dependent on the dvijas they serve thus an independent state like Vanaprastha is not possible for them.)

Sudras must retire from physical work as they age- the body requires
it- and this is an ideal time to associate with sadhus, and progress
spiritually by learning the science of Krsna. After that, they may
even become guru, according to Mahaprabhu! Amazing, isn't it?

This must be examined because a marriage between a boy of the vipra-
varna and a girl of the sudra-varna is incompatible; married life
would be miserable for both husband and wife. Consequently a boy
should marry a girl of the same category. Of course, this is trai-
gunya, a material calculation according to the Vedas, but if the boy
and girl are devotees there need be no such considerations. A devotee
is transcendental, and therefore in a marriage between devotees, the
boy and girl form a very happy combination. SB 6.2.26

Interesting quote- I always like to ask "why?" (that makes me
inquisitive and therefore, logically, a ksatriya- GKP?) Why would the
married life be miserable? I think that practically speaking, if one
spouse is peaceful and completely detached from sex life, and the
other one is- let us say- a little "hot" then what? It is a very
common problem in ISKCON- one partner is peaceful and detached, the
other is passionate and desirous, and the passionate one cannot have
his/her desires fulfilled, and in frustration, he or she looks
elsewhere...but peaceful brahmanas will not only have no problem being
celibate together, but also have very interesting philosophical
discussions..so the levels of detachment- and also realization- need
to be matched- IF there is a really and truly qualified astrologer (do
hens have teeth?) his advice can be taken on board...

[niscala dasi]

Thank you - I just did, it is called VA COLLEGE.doc- please share your
thoughts on it!

[Volha Tarasenka]

Now you have to open the doc and share it with us (right upper corner). You entry the name of our group and let us edit the document.

Read more here:

http://groups-announcements.blogspot.com/2010/09/notice-about-pages-and-files.html?hl=ru

Your servant

Ganga dd

2010/10/11 niscala dasi <niscal...@yahoo.com.au>

--
Tarasenko Olga

[Greg Jay]

PAMHO AGTSP

On Oct 11, 2010, at 2:27 AM, niscala dasi wrote:

>>> Vaishya vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Upon retirement a grhastha becomes a vanaprastha who either travels with or without his wife to holy places. In any case he separates from his children.)
>
> thats kind of contradictory prabhu- besides, so many devotee
> businessmen in ISKCON have retired and taken full-time to spiritual
> life- I know of several myself...you don't know of any?

Certainly that is why I said it is possible.

>>> Sudra brahmachari (Not a possible combination because he does not take upanayanam sacred thread samskara thus officially entering Vedic celibate studentship or brahmacharya and he does not go to gurukula. At or before puberty he must get married or he will cause problems in society.)
>
> I am sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Let me make myself clear now-
> with the odd exception, I always write about VA as it applies to
> devotees, SP recommending a VA college for training in all the varnas-
> if I am not mistaken- another point- I also write about VA as it
> applies to the modern age, when devotee children are by law required
> to be educated to age 16. It happens in Kerala, btw, in case you think
> me a bit Eurocentric! :)

I am speaking of VA not modern Kerala or even western law. In VA there are no Sudra Brahmacharis. You have suggested that there are by reinterpreting the word Brahmachari. Any male who is not married is not a Brahmachari. If low class (worker) males are not married by puberty it is a major cause of all sorts of sins. Since any VA system should be aimed as regulating and reducing sins this should not be allowed. If you allow for low calls (worker) males to study their crafts and apprentice without marrying then you have to put up with dating, rape, porn, prostitution, contraception and all sorts of illicit sex. The VA solution to illicit sex is marriage (surprise!!!). When men reach a stage where they cannot or will not remain celibate they should be married (same for women). For women and worker males that stage is puberty.

>>> Sudra vanaprastha (Theoretically possible but not seen in practice. Sudras do not retire, and they must always be dependent on the dvijas they serve thus an independent state like Vanaprastha is not possible for them.)
>
> Sudras must retire from physical work as they age- the body requires
> it- and this is an ideal time to associate with sadhus, and progress
> spiritually by learning the science of Krsna.

But at the same time they are being looked after by their masters. They are never independent, thus they cannot travel independently from their masters. Thus they cannot be vanaprasthas. Cows that are old and cannot produce milk are cared for in goshalas in India till they die, this is because like the worker the cow is dependent on the master for everything. Old cows are not set free to roam all over the place in India, Old Cow protection like Old worker protection is not independent. You should read more about traditional VA and also understand how the system actually works in India.

> After that, they may
> even become guru, according to Mahaprabhu! Amazing, isn't it?

In theory but not in practice. A guru is not dependent like a worker on his master. Although our sastras do allow for gurus of different classes, the Goswamis have explained that one should not accept a guru from a lower class if there is a guru of a higher class available.

The practice of VA and it's interface with the practice of Vaisnavism is interesting but in general only brahmins are gurus. There are exceptions no doubt. But again we must know the general rules before knowing the exceptions. This was my previous complaint about your ideas. That you want everyone and every situation to be an exception. In general what I have laid out in this post is the rule. I do not deny that their might be exceptions to some. If you want society to function the best you follow the general rules though not base everything on exceptions. For example the GBC decide who can be a guru in ISKCON. They have some rules for it. In those rules it says that a guru must know Prabhupada's books. Some gurus in history have been illiterate. Therefore such gurus if they appeared today in ISKCON would not be allowed to be gurus. Thus the rule is that a guru must be literate but an exception is that he may not be. Many sudras in Vedic times were illiterate. So they could be gurus, but in general they won't be because they can't even read the sastras.

> This must be examined because a marriage between a boy of the vipra-
> varna and a girl of the sudra-varna is incompatible; married life
> would be miserable for both husband and wife. Consequently a boy
> should marry a girl of the same category. Of course, this is trai-
> gunya, a material calculation according to the Vedas, but if the boy
> and girl are devotees there need be no such considerations. A devotee
> is transcendental, and therefore in a marriage between devotees, the
> boy and girl form a very happy combination. SB 6.2.26
>
> Interesting quote- I always like to ask "why?" (that makes me
> inquisitive and therefore, logically, a ksatriya- GKP?)

Not all inquisitive people are Ksatriyas. Since Prabhupada has stated it, and Manu also by the way as well as all the other Dharmasastras, you have to accept it.

Why is it so? Because people of different natures will be incompatible. Why is there so much divorce in the world. Because the people are not matched according to their natures.

That is the reason.

> Why would the
> married life be miserable?

Varnas are according to guna and karma. Brahmins are predominantly in the mode of goodness. Sudras are predominantly in the mode of ignorance. Therefore a boy in the mode of goodness married to a girl in the mode of passion or ignorance will have problems. The girl will be more lusty than the boy and degrade him. The same is true if the match were a brahmin girl and sudra boy but reversed. In that case the boy would degraded the girl. This is spoken of in the Gita. When women are degraded then the whole society is destroyed. Therefore we must know the grade or class of each man and woman and match them accordingly so that they are equally matched. This is still done in India and by some more sophisticated ISKCON devotee parents who follow it. Others combine like cats and dogs without any evaluation of Varna. That is not VA.

> I think that practically speaking, if one
> spouse is peaceful and completely detached from sex life, and the
> other one is- let us say- a little "hot" then what? It is a very
> common problem in ISKCON- one partner is peaceful and detached, the
> other is passionate and desirous, and the passionate one cannot have
> his/her desires fulfilled, and in frustration, he or she looks
> elsewhere...

See above. The answer is matching. You have previously voiced you opposition to astrology even though Prabhupada accepted it's use for choosing Varna of kids, now he is again suggesting it's use with adults for choosing their Varna and matching them for marriage. Do you accept Prabhupada or not? If you do then despite you opposition that there are no bonafide astrologers you should be looking to find that bonafide astrologer or at least looking into how astrologers make such determinations by the rules of sastra. Just denying that any astrologer can properly make a determination does not solve the problem. You must accept a system of Varna determination otherwise Prabhupada says above that you will have problems. This is why I say that Varna determination is the very first essential step in VA.

> but peaceful brahmanas

Do not confuse brahmanas with vaisnavas. Not all vaisnavas are brahmanas. Just wearing a string on one's shoulder does not make one a brahmin.

> will not only have no problem being
> celibate together,

Celibacy in the presence of the opposite sex is the most difficult situation. The sastra says the fire always melts the butter. Better to have a society of only celibate monks like the Buddhists.
Marriage is not meant for celibacy. It is meant for licit sex. Kamo'smi bharatarshabha. What is licit for one class may not be for another. Manu has no rules for sex for sudras except that they should not have sex with those of higher varnas. Apart from that he allows them to freely have sex. No sudra is sanctioned for having sex with another sudra. Naturally the good sudras only have sex with their own wives. Other classes have other rules. Read Manu. Prabhupada said that it is the lawbook for VA, for human society.

> but also have very interesting philosophical
> discussions..so the levels of detachment- and also realization- need
> to be matched- IF there is a really and truly qualified astrologer (do
> hens have teeth?) his advice can be taken on board...

There must be. Because Prabhupada has said that it should be done. If he says that it should be done then we must do it.

GKD