Proposal for Change of Use of This Forum
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Dhanesvara Das
Oct 9, 2010, 5:22:34 AM10/9/10
to Varnashrama Culture
Dear Devotees,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I spent some time this morning analyzing the discussions and have
found that we are often “talking past each other.” One person is
saying one thing in respect to a specific context, and the responder
is interpreting and responding in another context. This leads to
confusion and endless discussion.
The contexts identified include (but are not limited to):
The meaning of varnashrama v. the practice of varnashrama
What to do v. How to do it
The immediate situation v. the ideal situation
In the past v. the present v. the future
and, Cultural bias or cultural interpretation
Also, we sometimes do not express ourselves completely resulting in
yet more confusion.
I do believe that some good can and should come out of our
discussions, but am of the opinion that we could go on like this
endlessly and accomplish very little. Personally, I haven’t time for
that.
It is also obvious by now that only a few of the members of this forum
write anything, while we may assume that the others are observing/
learning/studying/laughing and wondering “what are these people are
talking about?”
Earlier I had asked that those who wanted to participate in creating a
practical result from this discussion and there were several
responses.
Below is the suggested manner in which this forum can operate. Before
taking a final decision I want to hear your comments. If enough of you
want to continue to discuss elements of varnashrama culture as we have
been doing we can also create another forum for that purpose. I would
like to bring this to a decision within one week, so please let me
hear from you soon.
Your servant,
Dhanesvara Das
Here is the proposal:
In order to bring some practical result from this activity we will use
this forum to focus on specific aspects of varnashrama. Those posting
anything will present more thoughtful, even lengthy, essays according
to their interests, and areas of experience and knowledge.
We would also begin a strict protocol for review and questions.
Writers will choose a specific topic (there is no limit to those who
can write; several people may write on the same topic; any person may
write on any number of topics) to write about. At the beginning of
their paper they should identify the context of their work by
including it (chosen from this list) at the beginning of their paper.
Theory of varnashrama
Practice of varnashrama
What to do
How to do it
Present circumstances
Ideal circumstances
Past, present, or future
Cultural bias
The writer is also asked to identify any recommended background
material necessary for best understanding. Anyone asking questions of
the author is asked to first read the recommended material. Such
recommended materials should be available online.
Responses to these papers will be limited to questions and
constructive criticism, and alternative opinions are prohibited. The
idea is for the reader to try to understand what the writer is
expressing. Your agreement or disagreement is not at issue here. A
brief paragraph indicating the necessary background information
pertinent to the question is allowed. The hope is that this protocol
will put us more in a mood of hearing submissively, and assisting each
other in deepening our understanding of this subject. Responses from
the typically non-vocal group members are also welcome. Those not
observing this protocol will be restricted.
Since Google Groups no longer permits file sharing we will use Google
Documents to post papers, and authors may invite collaboration or
comment using Google Docs. I set up an account for our collective use:
varnashra...@gmail.com (password: bhaktiyoga), and then went to
Docs and tried to figure out how it works. I uploaded several papers,
but do not know how the file sharing actually works. If anybody else
is competent with this, please educate us all. Somehow everybody is
supposed to be able to upload files there and share them with others.
Enough of the protocols, next are the areas for which I am inviting
detailed essays. The list is not complete and if you have a suggestion
for other topics please let me know.
1. Historical varnashrama culture; how it functioned; its purposes;
its failure
2. Outline of reconstituted varnashrama culture of the 21st century
3. The distinction between Varnashrama and daiva-varnashrama
4. A Concise summary explanation of varnashrama culture (to be
completed after we have populated a majority of these subjects)
5. Implementation plan; there can be more than one of these, as there
can be more than one understanding of what constitutes varnashrama
culture. Specifically the implementation plan is going to be largely
dependent on time, place and circumstance.
6. The Varnas and Ashramas:
a. Their characteristics and application [how and where do they apply,
consideration of the sexes, etc.]
b. The Duties of varnas to the others [4X4 matrix recommended]
c. The Duties of the ashramas to the others [4X4 matrix recommended]
e. Other aspects of Varna and Ashrama.
7. The Culture
a. Economics. [What is the suggested method of economic development;
system by which raw materials are obtained, converted to goods and
services then distributed to residents; how is wealth distributed
among the members; etc.].
b. Education [What is the system of education for children, youth and
adults]
c. Political Science [How is the government conceived and set up in a
Village - what are the rules of behavior and inter-relationships
between individuals, varnas and ashrams]
d. Jurisprudence [What is the system to resolve grievances and
violations of rules. Note: any rules that contravene the law of the
land are automatically null and void.]
e. Village Constitution [A written document that sets forth the above
basic requirements, and others, such that everyone in participation is
aware of what is expected of them. This is the social contract to
which members subscribe and agree to obey in order to create a working
social system] No virus found in this incoming message.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I spent some time this morning analyzing the discussions and have
found that we are often “talking past each other.” One person is
saying one thing in respect to a specific context, and the responder
is interpreting and responding in another context. This leads to
confusion and endless discussion.
The contexts identified include (but are not limited to):
The meaning of varnashrama v. the practice of varnashrama
What to do v. How to do it
The immediate situation v. the ideal situation
In the past v. the present v. the future
and, Cultural bias or cultural interpretation
Also, we sometimes do not express ourselves completely resulting in
yet more confusion.
I do believe that some good can and should come out of our
discussions, but am of the opinion that we could go on like this
endlessly and accomplish very little. Personally, I haven’t time for
that.
It is also obvious by now that only a few of the members of this forum
write anything, while we may assume that the others are observing/
learning/studying/laughing and wondering “what are these people are
talking about?”
Earlier I had asked that those who wanted to participate in creating a
practical result from this discussion and there were several
responses.
Below is the suggested manner in which this forum can operate. Before
taking a final decision I want to hear your comments. If enough of you
want to continue to discuss elements of varnashrama culture as we have
been doing we can also create another forum for that purpose. I would
like to bring this to a decision within one week, so please let me
hear from you soon.
Your servant,
Dhanesvara Das
Here is the proposal:
In order to bring some practical result from this activity we will use
this forum to focus on specific aspects of varnashrama. Those posting
anything will present more thoughtful, even lengthy, essays according
to their interests, and areas of experience and knowledge.
We would also begin a strict protocol for review and questions.
Writers will choose a specific topic (there is no limit to those who
can write; several people may write on the same topic; any person may
write on any number of topics) to write about. At the beginning of
their paper they should identify the context of their work by
including it (chosen from this list) at the beginning of their paper.
Theory of varnashrama
Practice of varnashrama
What to do
How to do it
Present circumstances
Ideal circumstances
Past, present, or future
Cultural bias
The writer is also asked to identify any recommended background
material necessary for best understanding. Anyone asking questions of
the author is asked to first read the recommended material. Such
recommended materials should be available online.
Responses to these papers will be limited to questions and
constructive criticism, and alternative opinions are prohibited. The
idea is for the reader to try to understand what the writer is
expressing. Your agreement or disagreement is not at issue here. A
brief paragraph indicating the necessary background information
pertinent to the question is allowed. The hope is that this protocol
will put us more in a mood of hearing submissively, and assisting each
other in deepening our understanding of this subject. Responses from
the typically non-vocal group members are also welcome. Those not
observing this protocol will be restricted.
Since Google Groups no longer permits file sharing we will use Google
Documents to post papers, and authors may invite collaboration or
comment using Google Docs. I set up an account for our collective use:
varnashra...@gmail.com (password: bhaktiyoga), and then went to
Docs and tried to figure out how it works. I uploaded several papers,
but do not know how the file sharing actually works. If anybody else
is competent with this, please educate us all. Somehow everybody is
supposed to be able to upload files there and share them with others.
Enough of the protocols, next are the areas for which I am inviting
detailed essays. The list is not complete and if you have a suggestion
for other topics please let me know.
1. Historical varnashrama culture; how it functioned; its purposes;
its failure
2. Outline of reconstituted varnashrama culture of the 21st century
3. The distinction between Varnashrama and daiva-varnashrama
4. A Concise summary explanation of varnashrama culture (to be
completed after we have populated a majority of these subjects)
5. Implementation plan; there can be more than one of these, as there
can be more than one understanding of what constitutes varnashrama
culture. Specifically the implementation plan is going to be largely
dependent on time, place and circumstance.
6. The Varnas and Ashramas:
a. Their characteristics and application [how and where do they apply,
consideration of the sexes, etc.]
b. The Duties of varnas to the others [4X4 matrix recommended]
c. The Duties of the ashramas to the others [4X4 matrix recommended]
e. Other aspects of Varna and Ashrama.
7. The Culture
a. Economics. [What is the suggested method of economic development;
system by which raw materials are obtained, converted to goods and
services then distributed to residents; how is wealth distributed
among the members; etc.].
b. Education [What is the system of education for children, youth and
adults]
c. Political Science [How is the government conceived and set up in a
Village - what are the rules of behavior and inter-relationships
between individuals, varnas and ashrams]
d. Jurisprudence [What is the system to resolve grievances and
violations of rules. Note: any rules that contravene the law of the
land are automatically null and void.]
e. Village Constitution [A written document that sets forth the above
basic requirements, and others, such that everyone in participation is
aware of what is expected of them. This is the social contract to
which members subscribe and agree to obey in order to create a working
social system] No virus found in this incoming message.
niscala dasi
Oct 9, 2010, 7:39:22 AM10/9/10
to Varnashrama Culture
great proposal, prabhu, looks like the discussions will be more
constructive now, thanking you very much! The choices on the list are
well-thought out and seem to encompass the whole affair, as it applies
to us.
> varnashramacult...@gmail.com (password: bhaktiyoga), and then went to
constructive now, thanking you very much! The choices on the list are
well-thought out and seem to encompass the whole affair, as it applies
to us.
Lalita-sakhi MacMillan
Oct 9, 2010, 2:02:02 PM10/9/10
to varnashra...@googlegroups.com
Prabhu, thank you for so carefully thinking this through. I've been carefully following the posts and learning--and questioning-- a lot. This new format will definitely ease the chaos factor.
ys,
LSakhi dasi
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